Men neglected in figure skating? | Golden Skate

Men neglected in figure skating?

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
I was watching the interview with Todd Eldredge on skating lesson. He said something very interesting, that during the early 2000 the USFF (I am paraphrasing) did not pay that much attention to men's accomplishment because it was all about Michelle Kwan. (by the way he did not say anything negative about Michelle, in fact he said she deserve all the praise)... But he said it was hard for man to get noticed. To me that was so interesting, because with all his accomplishments for him to feel that way. I wonder how other male competitors feel or felt.


In other countries man have a better chance Dai was super famous in the era of Mao Asada in Japan
Javier Fernandez single handedly made Figure Skating famous in Spain.

But, I think is something to think about... If federations support ladies more than man, what would the incentive for male skaters to be in the sport?

And Finally lets talk about the most accomplished US Figure Skater skater of this quad: Evan Lysacek, World Champion and Olympic Champ, whether you like him or not. Shouldn't he be more recognized...
 

cheerknithanson

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Country
United-States
I realized you're right. I think because in the USA, American football, basketball, and baseball are the sports where of course the men are praised more. And figure skating to them doesn't seem, "manly" enough to them.

And by the way, skating is a LOT harder than baseball, basketball, and American football.
 

silverfoxes

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
In the US, yes, I think so. In other countries like Canada or France, their recent champions have been male & they seem to get more attention than the ladies. Japan & Russia seem to support their successful skaters of either gender.

It's interesting that US-based forums seem heavily biased toward ladies' skating too. I think part of it is that there was a lack of exciting personalities in US men's skating for many years...but I wonder how much of that is in part to the US fed wanting a certain "type" to represent them. I think they hurt the men's side of the sport more than anything. Let's face it, Evan isn't the most compelling personality. Johnny was interesting, but polarizing, and not beloved by the federation at all. Now Jason Brown has personality and he has crossover appeal. So if Jason is able to medal at some major competitions, I think it could cause a shift in things. But maybe I'm too optimistic.
 

cheerknithanson

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Country
United-States
In the US, yes, I think so. In other countries like Canada or France, their recent champions have been male & they seem to get more attention than the ladies. Japan & Russia seem to support their successful skaters of either gender.

It's interesting that US-based forums seem heavily biased toward ladies' skating too. I think part of it is that there was a lack of exciting personalities in US men's skating for many years...but I wonder how much of that is in part to the US fed wanting a certain "type" to represent them. I think they hurt the men's side of the sport more than anything. Let's face it, Evan isn't the most compelling personality. Johnny was interesting, but polarizing, and not beloved by the federation at all. Now Jason Brown has personality and he has crossover appeal. So if Jason is able to medal at some major competitions, I think it could cause a shift in things. But maybe I'm too optimistic.

If Jason can medal at major competitions, then maybe you're right. It could bring more attention. He has a personality that everyone loves.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Interestingly, the skater that continues to be among the best-recognized and best-liked athletes in the U.S. is Scott Hamilton. As successful as he was as a skater, with four world championships and an Olympic gold medal, his accomplishments as a producer, impresario, entrepreneur and all-around impishly lovable dude have kept him in the public's heart all these years.
 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Interestingly, the skater that continues to be among the best-recognized and best-liked athletes in the U.S. is Scott Hamilton. As successful as he was as a skater, with four world championships and an Olympic gold medal, his accomplishments as a producer, impresario, entrepreneur and all-around impishly lovable dude have kept him in the public's heart all these years.

Good Point
 

EdgeCall

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Popularity always comes with success, and it seems this is particularly true for the US. Todd had a great career with lots of success, he just had a bit of tough luck skating in the same era as Michelle whose rate of success was just outstanding by any standard. I am sure if some Plushenko-type champion skater pops up from somewhere in the US winning gold medals by the dozen no one will care about the gender.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
...
But, I think is something to think about... If federations support ladies more than man, what would the incentive for male skaters to be in the sport?

And Finally lets talk about the most accomplished US Figure Skater skater of this quad: Evan Lysacek, World Champion and Olympic Champ, whether you like him or not. Shouldn't he be more recognized...

Davis/White are more accomplished than Lysacek.

And Charlie White is absolutely beloved by almost everyone -- with the full support of USFS. (He certainly is not an afterthought compared to Meryl Davis.)

I realize that your post prob. was intended to contrast the disciplines of Men and Ladies.

Just sayin' that the male gender is not doomed to invisibility within U.S. skating.
 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Davis/White are more accomplished than Lysacek.

And Charlie White is absolutely beloved by almost everyone -- with the full support of USFS. (He certainly is not an afterthought compared to Meryl Davis.)

I realize that your post prob. was intended to contrast the disciplines of Men and Ladies.

Just sayin' that the male gender is not doomed to invisibility within U.S. skating.

I should have said singles... I am not even an Evan fan, but he is the most acomplished singles skater... An to make a point about Davis and White, they should be husehold names a la Michelle Kwan but unfortunatly most non-figure skating fans got to know them because of Dancing with the Stars... I asked my friends non-figure skating fans and they had no idea US had #1 ice dance team in the world...



I never said male competitors were doomed to invisibility, I am talking about support. If Tood Elredge felt it with all titles imagine someone like Jeremy.
 
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satine

v Yuki Ishikawa v
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Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Davis/White are more accomplished than Lysacek.

And Charlie White is absolutely beloved by almost everyone -- with the full support of USFS. (He certainly is not an afterthought compared to Meryl Davis.)

I realize that your post prob. was intended to contrast the disciplines of Men and Ladies.

Just sayin' that the male gender is not doomed to invisibility within U.S. skating.

I'll add in my (incredibly old fashioned, very homophobic) mother's opinion on men in skating- "It's wrong." but then when I ask what about Pairs & Dance she says "Well that's okay because the woman needs someone to skate with." Basically skating with a woman = not too flamboyant, but skating alone and being artsy = gay, gay, gay. And even though I'm ashamed of my mother's opinions, I admit that a large percentage of Americans still hold a view point similar to hers.

:slink:
 

begin

Medalist
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Unless I'm misunderstanding, I think one way or another it ties into the heteronormative state both internally (the conservative ISU) and externally (society's idea of masculinity). Or at least this applies to America.
 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
I'll add in my (incredibly old fashioned, very homophobic) mother's opinion on men in skating- "It's wrong." but then when I ask what about Pairs & Dance she says "Well that's okay because the woman needs someone to skate with." Basically skating with a woman = not too flamboyant, but skating alone and being artsy = gay, gay, gay. And even though I'm ashamed of my mother's opinions, I admit that a large percentage of Americans still hold a view point similar to hers.

:slink:
Sad since figure skating is as hard as football. IMO very manly:dance:
 

cheerknithanson

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Jul 13, 2014
Country
United-States
Sad since figure skating is as hard as football. IMO very manly:dance:

Uh I think figure skating is harder than football. To jump, rotate and land on a blade, that takes some athleticism. Football can't do that. Any guy who think male skaters are gay, I'll GLARE at the dude.
 
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cheerknithanson

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Country
United-States
I'll add in my (incredibly old fashioned, very homophobic) mother's opinion on men in skating- "It's wrong." but then when I ask what about Pairs & Dance she says "Well that's okay because the woman needs someone to skate with." Basically skating with a woman = not too flamboyant, but skating alone and being artsy = gay, gay, gay. And even though I'm ashamed of my mother's opinions, I admit that a large percentage of Americans still hold a view point similar to hers.

:slink:

I don't want to be rude, but I'm ashamed at your mother's viewpoints.

I'm more likely to be in love with skaters than football players. Cause I find cheerleading and figure skating rather similar to each other.
 

satine

v Yuki Ishikawa v
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Joined
Feb 13, 2014
I don't want to be rude, but I'm ashamed at your mother's viewpoints.

I'm more likely to be in love with skaters than football players. Cause I find cheerleading and figure skating rather similar to each other.

It's ok, I don't think you're being rude at all & I share your sentiment. I hope I didn't offend anyone by posting it. It's an offensive and unfortunate view point, but I think that it's true for a lot of people, particularly the area I have grown up in :eek:hwell:
 

Vanshilar

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Yeah I'd say part of the issue is the perception of males going ice skating in the U.S. Ice skating for hockey, fine. Ice skating for figure skating, do you need to talk to a pastor?

I've tried getting my labmates (all male, single) to go ice skating, pointing out that it's mostly college-age women at the local rink (I'm in a college town). They haven't wanted to. Oh well. I'd offhandedly estimate that the ratio is about 4:1 or so at the rink usually, except for when there's a group event (in which case it's more even), so they'd have plenty of opportunities if they did show up. I guess more for me, except my wife wouldn't approve. (Look but don't touch and all that.)

Anywho, I think it has to do with the perception of males going figure skating in the U.S. It's not seen as a "manly" thing to do, the way football, basketball, or even golf is. Apparently from talking to some skaters at the rink that have lived elsewhere, this is more or less an America thing.
 

StitchMonkey

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Sad since figure skating is as hard as football. IMO very manly:dance:

I just want to point out, that this view kinda adds to the problem. Ideally neither football or figure skating should be described by gender. I know it is easy, I know it is convenient, and yes I know what you mean - but at the same time. We really should try to expand and improve our vocabulary. Something physically difficult should not be automatically manly any more than something should need to be physically difficult to be manly.

It is not really fair to football/soccer/insert cultural variety here to call them/their sport "manly" either. There was an openly coach interviewed a while ago on this issue that said he gets hit on more by (NFL) football players than skaters.

To be blunt Johnny Weir and Rudy Galindo should be allowed and welcomed in the NFL, and that is sorta the other side of the coin. To me both issues should be tackled together.
 

StitchMonkey

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
It's ok, I don't think you're being rude at all & I share your sentiment. I hope I didn't offend anyone by posting it. It's an offensive and unfortunate view point, but I think that it's true for a lot of people, particularly the area I have grown up in :eek:hwell:

It is true, and I for one thank you for being willing to share it. So many people would censor themselves out of fear, which is a shame. You clearly did not support or agree with your mother's view and were sharing it out of honesty. Some people just don't get it and likely will never. Then again, I don't really get football from either side of the pond all that much so really to me them not getting it should not be that big a deal.
 

itoja

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
I was watching the interview with Todd Eldredge on skating lesson. He said something very interesting, that during the early 2000 the USFF (I am paraphrasing) did not pay that much attention to men's accomplishment because it was all about Michelle Kwan. (by the way he did not say anything negative about Michelle, in fact he said she deserve all the praise)... But he said it was hard for man to get noticed. To me that was so interesting, because with all his accomplishments for him to feel that way. I wonder how other male competitors feel or felt.


In other countries man have a better chance Dai was super famous in the era of Mao Asada in Japan

Actually, it was the same in Japan at that time, from DTFF:
http://daisuke-takahashi.megabb.com/t960p525-news-topics-2013-14

"they showed a newspaper of before Torino time where the whole page was about girls going to Olymics and only one sentence mentioning Dai. Dai said that at that time in Japan many people left the arenas after Ladies SP was over even Men LP was going to be next. So when he skated LP he saw a lot of empty seats and thought "I'll get them!" To do that he knew he must win and win as many events as possible to catch people's and media attention, where he knew he could never beat Mao (*he turned out to be wrong afterall!)"
 
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