2014-2015 GPF Short Dance 12/12

greenriver · Dec 13, 2014

G&P skated well and no obvious errors, I &Z have flair (really just her) and she is a beauty, but they made mistakes aND we're sloppy in places. They made the final after a short time together so I would argue they are getting a lot of support. They are on the way up for sure but they definitely need some time.

Unless you are on the panel and can review the actual video, technical requirements are difficult (if not impossible) to assess correctly. A lot of technical assessment on here which although interesting - doesn't make it correct.

The Shibs were lovely and seeing them here live was a treat.

Andrew and K - dynamic, strong .

Looking forward to seeing the freef dances.

alebi · Dec 13, 2014

sisinka said:
Watching Piper – her cape story is visible, but Spanish dance is not there. If you watch her without music and not look at Paul – I don’t see whether she is cape of…Matador, Batman, Superman, Cardinal Richelieu, Quasimodo’s cape…using cape or being cape doesn’t mean Spanish dance only.

So I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees Dracula every time she's performing this SD... :slink:

sisinka · Dec 13, 2014

greenriver said:
Unless you are on the panel and can review the actual video, technical requirements are difficult (if not impossible) to assess correctly. A lot of technical assessment on here which although interesting - doesn't make it correct.

I believe that many Technical specialists think like that. But then it has no sense to have Technical panel when they are not able to judge Levels correctly. Understand, the Technical panel was created for more fair judging.

If it fails in every competition putting higher levels then deserved to one couple, lower levels then deserved to another couple and appropriate levels to third couple - and this all happens at one competition - why to have Technical panel at all?

And how do you explain to skaters that this time they are those who will be undermarked while next couple will be this time that "supported".

Every coach and many skaters try to study Protocols and rules, they are doing changes in programs to fulfill all criterias...and then they come at competition...and Technical panel will say them: " Sorry, we are not perfect, maybe you executed it well, but we put Levels down, because we didn't have time to look at it properly." What would you think being a skater?

sisinka · Dec 13, 2014

greenriver said:
G&P skated well and no obvious errors, I &Z have flair (really just her) and she is a beauty, but they made mistakes aND we're sloppy in places. They made the final after a short time together so I would argue they are getting a lot of support. They are on the way up for sure but they definitely need some time.

Not obvious errors, but they didn't executed proper levels in Paso Doble. Looking at rules, not executing Key Points well is enough for NOT getting Levels - which means lower score in Technical element score.

Not executing Key Point well because of shaky leg or not executing Key Point well because you don't know to execute it well - means the same - you shouldn't get this Key Point counted.

alebi · Dec 13, 2014

why people consider an error only an "obvious" error? there's much more than a fall or a shaking step... (it's a general talk, not only related to this competition)

Mathman · Dec 13, 2014

alebi said:
Sorry for asking a dumb question, but how can ISU penalize a judge if they stay anonymous and, I suppose, their order changes from a skater to another one (so you can't say for example that it's always number 3 who gives the lowest marks). Or is ISU allowed to see in a secret document what every judge gave during the competition?

The ISU is allowed to see in a secret document what every judge gave during the competition.

It's just the fans and viewers who are kept in the dark. It's all in the computer. One day computers will become sentient and rig figure skating contests to suit themselves.

By the way, we can't really compute these corridors ourselves because the secret scores given by the referee are also taken into account, as well as sometimes input from whatever members of the judges' oversight committee might be present at the event.

The ISU does, however, at the end of the year publish a list of the judges who have been sanctioned or punished the past season.

elif · Dec 13, 2014

sisinka said:
Why are Gilles & Poirier so much supported and their mistakes are not taken into account?

Because technical specialist is Canadian? :slink:

Look at how Bowness judged junior Canadian couple at one of JGPs:

http://www.isuresults.com/results/jgpest2014/jgpest2014_JuniorIceDance_SD_Scores.pdf

alebi · Dec 13, 2014

Mathman said:
The ISU is allowed to see in a secret document what every judge gave during the competition. It's just the fans and viewers who are kept in the dark. It's all in the computer. One day computers will become sentient and rig figure skating contests to suit themselves.

By the way, we can't really compute these corridors ourselves because the secret scores given by the referee are also taken into account, as well as sometimes input from whatever members of the judges' oversight committee might be present at the event.

The ISU does, however, at the end of the year publish a list of the judges who have been sanctioned or punished the past season.

ahahah thank you! one day figure skating will be head by computers and we won't need human judges anymore :biggrin:

slider11 · Dec 13, 2014

alebi said:
Sorry for asking a dumb question, but how can ISU penalize a judge if they stay anonymous and, I suppose, their order changes from a skater to another one (so you can't say for example that it's always number 3 who gives the lowest marks). Or is ISU allowed to see in a secret document what every judge gave during the competition?

In the same vein of judge anonymity, the scoring sheets list that the judges are listed in random order. Is that random order consistent throughout all skaters or teams? Or do they shuffle the scoring of the judges for each skater? In other words, if the first judge listed scores Weaver and Poje with a range of marks, is that same judge listed first with Chock and Bates? Or do they shuffle the judges again?

CanadianSkaterGuy · Dec 13, 2014

T

alebi said:
ahahah thank you! one day figure skating will be head by computers and we won't need human judges anymore

Wait, judges are human?! :biggrin:

Snow63 · Dec 13, 2014

So basically judge can overscore anyone he/she wants no more than 5 points more than their average? And it will be okay? Nice

Matt K · Dec 13, 2014

slider11 said:
In the same vein of judge anonymity, the scoring sheets list that the judges are listed in random order. Is that random order consistent throughout all skaters or teams? Or do they shuffle the scoring of the judges for each skater? In other words, if the first judge listed scores Weaver and Poje with a range of marks, is that same judge listed first with Chock and Bates? Or do they shuffle the judges again?

It has been stated many times that the random order is shuffled for each skater. J1 for W/P is not necessarily J1 for C/B.

Snow63 said:
So basically judge can overscore anyone he/she wants no more than 5 points more than their average? And it will be okay? Nice

Yes, and this is the problem. The judge who overscored Chock/Bates in PCS and was outside of the corridor also overscored them in GOEs, but was just barely within the corridor to avoid warranting an investigation (GOEs). Very unfortunate situation.

Mathman · Dec 13, 2014

Snow63 said:
So basically judge can overscore anyone he/she wants no more than 5 points more than their average? And it will be okay? Nice

Yes. For GOEs you get a leeway of one point for each element, so for a men's free program you could be off by a total of 13 points from the average of the other judges without getting caught.

It's tricky, though. If you make the corridor too narrow then judges will be assigning marks according to what they think the other judges might do, instead of judging by what they see. A narrow corridor might encourage more "reputation judging," as each judge figures, "The other judges will be giving out high marks for this team, so I had better, too."

Anyway, it was mentioned on the free dance thread that the judge that pushed so hard for Chock and Bates had to pull in her horns a little the next day -- perhaps as a result the meeting that the judges have with the referee immediately after the event.

2014-2015 GPF Short Dance 12/12

greenriver

alebi

sisinka

sisinka

alebi

Mathman

elif

alebi

slider11

CanadianSkaterGuy

Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.

Matt K

Mathman

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