Is a reinforcement in the heels of the skates legal?

cheerknithanson · Dec 18, 2014

I don't know if this is the right section to post in but I'm going to do it anyways.

I'm NOT a skater, but I'm wondering this: If someone has very narrow heel and can't fit into normal skates and even custom-skates don't work cause the heels wear down after a few weeks of breaking the skates in, is it LEGAL under ISU rules for a reinforcement to be inserted so the skates can keep its shape for a longer period of time and slow down the rate of how fast the heels will wear down?

I thought of this idea, but I'm not sure if it's legal under ISU rules.

Babbette1 · Dec 18, 2014

I am not a competitive skater, but I do figure skate. You cannot believe the stuff that skaters do to get their boots to fitl

Also, since you aren't a skater, I don't know if you've ever seen how stiff skating boots are. It's unlikely that the situation you're mentioning will occur.

Since I've had plenty of boot adjustments, I chronicled them for my blog. These are just the ones I've used over the last few years. There are others I don't use.

http://icedoesntcare.blogspot.com/2014/08/super-fitting-your-boot.html

StitchMonkey · Dec 18, 2014

I believe there are rules to account for this.

Elaine Zayak lost some toes in a lawn mower accident and had a mold that helped with the shape of her foot. So it seems precedent for inserts to make the damn thing fit has been set.

gkelly · Dec 18, 2014

From the ISU Special Regulations and Technical Rules for Singles & Pairs and Ice Dance 2014:

Rule 500
Definition of the skate blade
Figure Skating blades used during competitions must be sharpened to produce a flat to concave cross section without change to the width of the blade as measured between the two edges. However, a slight tapering or narrowing of the cross section of the blade is permitted.

There are no rules restricting the boots in any way.

As an aside, the only rule regarding boots for speedskating is more about how the blades are attached:

Blades must be fixed to the boot at a minimum of two points with no moveable parts

(from Rule 291 f in the Special Regulations for Speed Skating and Short Track Speed Skating 2014 at the same link above)

sarahspins · Dec 18, 2014

cheerknithanson said:
I thought of this idea, but I'm not sure if it's legal under ISU rules.

Considering the amount of modifications to skate that are commonly done, and the amount of gel sleeves and padding and other things stuffed into the boots and used regularly by a LOT of skaters to prevent/reduce injury from boots, I don't think that the ISU would say anything about it... it's for more intents, a non-issue.

That said, your question really leads me to suspect that you greatly underestimate the ability of boot makers to fit difficult feet, particularly very narrow ankles/heels, and the strength/stiffness of most high level boots. Even when a skater breaks down boots "quickly" you are looking at that occurring after several months of use, not just weeks. For a skater to fully break down a pair of boots in weeks would mean that they were in much too soft of a boot to start with, or they were simply fit very poorly.

Many skaters refer to the feel of new skates as "concrete blocks" - they do feel THAT stiff and unyielding at first. Most people have no point of reference to understand just how stiff they can be.

cheerknithanson · Dec 18, 2014

Great now I feel like a total idiot.

I wrote this intent on trying to figure out if an idea I have would work for someone. Now I feel uneducated.

satine · Dec 18, 2014

cheerknithanson said:
Great now I feel like a total idiot.

I wrote this intent on trying to figure out if an idea I have would work for someone. Now I feel uneducated.

Don't be

I've been watching fs for most of my life, but have never stepped onto the ice or worn skating boots myself. I don't know what they feel like, how to fit them, etc., either. I enjoy ballet too & know that slippers can be customized/broken in via a number of different ways, but I'm not an expert on that either as I've never worn them. I don't feel like an idiot though

mskater93 · Dec 19, 2014

For reference, I have a standard B width ball of the foot and a AAAA heel - customs. My Harlicks fit perfectly because the team there is VERY good with dimensions/casts/etc. I've had the boots ~1.5 years and there is NO slippage in the heel. I don't wear orthotics/gel pads/bungas/socks/bunion pads etc either.

IcyEdges · Dec 19, 2014

cheerknithanson said:
Great now I feel like a total idiot.

I wrote this intent on trying to figure out if an idea I have would work for someone. Now I feel uneducated.

Definitely don't feel like an idiot. (there needs to be a hug smiley lol).
As others have said there are so many things that boot makers can do so that the boot fits the skater to a "T." There are also many things that we can wear in them. Like me, I have orthotics in mine because I tend to supinate (aka my feet roll outwards naturally, thanks to growing up in skates lol), I also wear Bungas in my skates.
Anyway, if the boot is being broken down that quickly, then there are bigger problems.

From reading your original post I'm starting to think I may know whose problem you are trying to solve lol. If you have any more questions or want to talk about that, feel free to PM me. :biggrin:

loopy · Dec 20, 2014

what did you mean by the heels wearing down? Do you mean the fabric inside compressing?

Vanshilar · Dec 20, 2014

gkelly said:
There are no rules restricting the boots in any way.

As an aside, the only rule regarding boots for speedskating is more about how the blades are attached:

Blades must be fixed to the boot at a minimum of two points with no moveable parts

Click to expand...

(from Rule 291 f in the Special Regulations for Speed Skating and Short Track Speed Skating 2014 at the same link above)

Can springs be put inside the heel? I always wonder if they would allow the skater to jump higher

gkelly · Dec 20, 2014

I guess someone will have to invent it. Then the ISU can decide whether it's something that needs to be restricted or encouraged.

As of now there are no rules about boots. As far as I can tell, if for some reason you wanted to strap blades onto your bare feet it would not be illegal. (It wouldn't be advantageous, which is why no one does it.)

Babbette1 · Dec 20, 2014

Vanshilar said:
Can springs be put inside the heel? I always wonder if they would allow the skater to jump higher

My assumption is that adding springs would add weight to the boot and introduce instability.

dorispulaski · Dec 22, 2014

There used to be hinged skates. The idea was to cushion the shock of landings. afair, Alissa used them for a while. However, they are no longer made.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/winter/2005-10-28-upgraded-skates_x.htm

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB114014691681476717

I don't know about any more recent attempts to improve skates.Have there been any?

IcyEdges · Dec 23, 2014

@cheerknithanson I tried to PM you regarding this but it says you have exceeded the amount of stored messages in your inbox and need to clear your inbox to receive more msgs.

cheerknithanson · Dec 23, 2014

IcyEdges said:
@cheerknithanson I tried to PM you regarding this but it says you have exceeded the amount of stored messages in your inbox and need to clear your inbox to receive more msgs.

working on it now

Is a reinforcement in the heels of the skates legal?

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