View Poll Results: who gets your vote in nov.?

Voters
107. You may not vote on this poll
  • Bush

    23 21.50%
  • Kerry

    77 71.96%
  • Nader

    2 1.87%
  • other

    5 4.67%
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Thread: who will u vote for in Nov.?

  1. #61
    ~ Evgeni's Sex Bomb ~
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    RG, I think it's interesting you feel this way. My father, a lifelong Republican and 36 year military veteran, will NOT be voting for GW this time because he can't believe how badly the whole Iraq situation has been handled. He strongly feels we should've gotten bin Laden and cleaned up Afghanistan before even considering going into Iraq. Fighting a two front war with a downsized military (thank Bush I for that) is NOT a good idea, and some have speculated that Colin Powell tried his best to make this known to GW and the gang, but they were all hung up on "we will be greeted as liberators" and such.

    Where are you getting your information that the weapons are in Syria? I've heard speculation about it, but I've never seen confirmation.

    Laura

  2. #62
    On Edge Piel's Avatar
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    My doctor has family in Syria and he shares RGal's opinion.

  3. #63
    GOLDEN DREAMS RealtorGal's Avatar
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    I admit that I see politics through a Jewish lens. When my husband got off the plane last year in Israel for his Father's funeral, the first thing his nephew handed him was a gas mask. He was supposed to carry it everywhere. It made me sick. Everyone had one--children took theirs to school. Due to the danger of being bombed by Iraq with gas being less imminent, recently, they were allowed to turn the masks in.

    Mr. RG reads the news from Israel on a regular (somewhat obsessive) basis and there is a lot of info that never quite makes its way to the U.S. print media.

    I need to say "thank you" to Bush--with my vote.

  4. #64
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    Well, now that RealtorGal mentions this, I do have to admit there is one (and only one) thing I like about Bush policy -- policy towards Israel.

    However, I was very heartened to hear Kerry say agreed with Bush on supporting Sharon's unilateral withrawal from Gaza; it was a prime moment for him to pounce on Bush for going against "the rest of the world", and he didn't take the bait even though several interviewers encouraged him to do so. Also, here is a [URL=http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/kerryrecord.html]link[/URL] to a page that lists Kerry's voting record on pro-Israel issues. It really isn't bad (though I agree that some in his campaign do portray him as more pro-Israel than he is).

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrincessLeppard
    ....Fighting a two front war with a downsized military (thank Bush I for that) is NOT a good idea, and some have speculated that Colin Powell tried his best to make this known to GW and the gang, but they were all hung up on "we will be greeted as liberators" and such.

    Laura
    Bush had the military in the size inherited from the CLINTON White House. It is the CLINTON administration who must bear responsibility for a downsized military, for destroying information-sharing between the CIA and FBI, and for not capturing Bin Laden when Clinton was given the capability to do so. Clinton's response to the Cole bombing---lobbing missiles into the middle of nowhere---accomplished zilch.

  6. #66
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe
    Clinton's response to the Cole bombing---lobbing missiles into the middle of nowhere---accomplished zilch.
    Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you're describing his response to the African Embassy bombings (though I agree that the move was all for show, and accomplished far more harm than good). I don't think it's quite fair to say that Clinton did not and "capture Bin Laden when ... given the capability to do so". The most you can say is that Clinton did not invest appropriate resources into attempting to capture Bin Laden when given plenty of warning.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe
    Bush had the military in the size inherited from the CLINTON White House. It is the CLINTON administration who must bear responsibility for a downsized military, for destroying information-sharing between the CIA and FBI, and for not capturing Bin Laden when Clinton was given the capability to do so. Clinton's response to the Cole bombing---lobbing missiles into the middle of nowhere---accomplished zilch.
    The downsizing of the military began under Bush I. Base closings across Europe began under Bush I. I was a military brat at the time, and watched many, many capable men and women forced to retire early.

    Laura

  8. #68
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    The closings under Bush I were because the Cold War had ended and there wasn't the need (at the time) for all the bases. But you can't blame GWB for what his father did more than 12 years ago. The military became far more depleted under Clinton, and GWB inherited the army as it was at the end of the Clinton era.

  9. #69
    On Edge Piel's Avatar
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    I feel more threatened now than at any time during the cold war ! Surely George I did't think that the U.S. was without enemies just because the cold war was over. Couldn't the staff from bases that were closed be transferred to other areas?

  10. #70
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    I feel threatened, too--perhaps a great deal more than you do. Two of my friends and neighbors died in the WTC. My daughter lives and works in midtown Manhattan.

    But you can't blame either Bush 1 or GWB for 9/11. Keeping those bases open wouldn't have prevented the attack. The 9/11 attack was planned well in advance, and operatives were selected and positioned a year or more before the attack.

  11. #71
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    Okay, first of all, you are trying to blame Clinton for the smaller military, which isn't true. But even given that we have a smaller military, Bush II inheirited a damn good military from Clinton. But something is going to have to be done by whoever wins in November about the extended hardship tours for both reserve and active duty personnel, or we are going to have too many people getting out of the military who need to stay in.

    I had friends in the Pentagon, but I don't blame anyone for the 9/11 attacks except the men who were flying the planes.

    Laura

  12. #72
    Da' Spellin' Homegirl Grgranny's Avatar
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    Also, when they close bases, there are a lot of jobs lost from the area because there aren't as many people there and there's quite a few jobs lost since there are local people working on the base, etc.

  13. #73
    Custom Title Ogre Mage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe
    But you can't blame either Bush 1 or GWB for 9/11. Keeping those bases open wouldn't have prevented the attack. The 9/11 attack was planned well in advance, and operatives were selected and positioned a year or more before the attack.
    If you can't blame Bush I or GWB for 9/11, then nor can you blame Clinton for it.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogre Mage
    If you can't blame Bush I or GWB for 9/11, then nor can you blame Clinton for it.
    It's said that this whole thing is degenerating into a blame game. I feel that the 9/11 comission could have done a lot more done had people NOT been so quick to blame, making politicians over-defensive. Bush/ Chaney/ Rice were all, IMHO, less that fully cooperative. I don't think it was just because they wanted to hide information from the public -- I think it's also that whatever they said, they would be "blamed" for something or other.

  15. #75
    Custom Title Ogre Mage's Avatar
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    "Pro death"

    Frankly I feel the same way about abortion AND the death penalty. Both should be legal AND rare.

    I am well aware that a disproportionate number of people of color are on death row. I am a person of color myself. I am also aware that there are innocent people on death row. These are inexcusable failings. But while I may have problems with the way the law is applied, I have no problem with the idea that some people deserve death for what they have done. Frankly, if someone decided it was "fun" to torture my family to death and they were caught, I would want to see the person executed. There are rare but clear cases when guilt is beyond a shadow of a doubt and the crime is so horrible that the continued existence of the perpetrator is an affront to not just the victim's family, but society as a whole. Tim McVeigh would be one good example. Ted Bundy is another. I also think the death penalty acts as a deterrent to crime.

    I wrote a paper on abortion when I was an undergraduate and I was always haunted by the pictures I saw of women who died having illegal abortions. There have been many arguments over the years about whether or not the fetus is a "person" but there I was staring at the picture of a woman who had undoubtedly been a person. This stuck with me far, far more than the images of aborted fetuses that the so-called "pro-life" camp used. Some women who have abortions become very depressed afterward and feel it ruined their life. Then they suddenly become "pro-life." But it is wrong and even arrogant for them to assume the experience of others will be the same as theirs. Many women have abortions and are able to get on with their lives very well. At least it was their choice. It would be far more depressing to be "trapped without any options." H. Clinton was correct -- "It is a violation of human rights when women are denied the right to plan their own families."
    Last edited by Ogre Mage; 07-07-2004 at 05:35 PM.

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