View Poll Results: who gets your vote in nov.?

Voters
107. You may not vote on this poll
  • Bush

    23 21.50%
  • Kerry

    77 71.96%
  • Nader

    2 1.87%
  • other

    5 4.67%
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Thread: who will u vote for in Nov.?

  1. #106
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by sashasbeau
    IMO, The only reason people are going to vote for Kerry is because they don`t want Bush
    (In my best "Dr. Phil" voice) Ya think???

    I don't really care for either one of 'em. Heard a great quote the other day: "If you vote for the lesser of two evils, you still get evil." Know who said that? MY candidate! See http://www.lp.org.

  2. #107
    bugs are smarter than we are bronxgirl's Avatar
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    The truth of the matter is the victor will still be either Bush or Kerry. Nader can't win, he can only stop Kerry from winning in crucial states. Minor party candidates
    haven't won in a national election in the US since I can't remember when, so if Bush wins your state by a few votes, and you think he is not "the lesser of the two evils", I hope you're prepared to live with the consequences for the rest of us.

  3. #108
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Nope -- not buyin' it. Sorry. If people had the ballz to vote their conscience, we might be able to do something other than whine about the two party system. They whine, but support it anyway with their votes. You vote for your favorite, uber-rich Skull-N-Bones alumnist. I'll vote for someone I believe in. Then, when Kush or Berry gets the country into one nasty mess or another, I can say, "Not my fault!" How many Iraqs, sell-outs and sex scandals will it take to wake people up???

  4. #109
    On Edge Piel's Avatar
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    The Libertarian Party offers a positive alternative to the failed welfare state. We offer a vision of a society based on work, individual responsibility, and private charity. It is a society based on opportunity and genuine compassion It is a society built on liberty.
    Then, when Kush or Berry gets the country into one nasty mess or another, I can say, "Not my fault!" How many Iraqs, sell-outs and sex scandals will it take to wake people up???
    Genuine Compassion - Not My fault....... Hmm...to answer Dr. Phil "That's NOT working for me!" For some reason I would like to start seeing the genuine compassion BEFORE all of the safety nets are removed because Ifor now I am certainly not feeling it .

    IIRC prior to welfare and social security we had those lovely, compassionate institutions known as begging, starvation, no health care. In my elementary school in 1962 there was a very poor famliy that lived in a shack on the side of a hill. One of the 'genuinely compassionate mothers" of one of the wealthier students brought a huge box of 'private charity" for the poor family to school one day. This woman stood in front of the classroom pulling one thing after another out of the box which contained, used clothing, non perishable food items, and cleaning supplies putting on a show and tell of what she was giving to the poor, unfortunate family. The highlight of her performance and the items of which she seemed the most proud of herself for bringing were individual boxes of cereal of different varieties. The look on the face of the child from the family the items were intended for for was absolute mortification....even for a second grader that child knew it was being treated differently than the other children in the classroom. No child should ever have to go through something like that.

  5. #110
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piel
    Genuine Compassion - Not My fault....... Hmm...to answer Dr. Phil "That's NOT working for me!" For some reason I would like to start seeing the genuine compassion BEFORE all of the safety nets are removed because Ifor now I am certainly not feeling it .

    IIRC prior to welfare and social security we had those lovely, compassionate institutions known as begging, starvation, no health care. In my elementary school in 1962 there was a very poor famliy that lived in a shack on the side of a hill. One of the 'genuinely compassionate mothers" of one of the wealthier students brought a huge box of 'private charity" for the poor family to school one day. This woman stood in front of the classroom pulling one thing after another out of the box which contained, used clothing, non perishable food items, and cleaning supplies putting on a show and tell of what she was giving to the poor, unfortunate family. The highlight of her performance and the items of which she seemed the most proud of herself for bringing were individual boxes of cereal of different varieties. The look on the face of the child from the family the items were intended for for was absolute mortification....even for a second grader that child knew it was being treated differently than the other children in the classroom. No child should ever have to go through something like that.
    Only a matter of how things get implemented. It's easy to criticize that which has not been tried. Look a little deeper and lose the cliches.

  6. #111
    On Edge Piel's Avatar
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    And exactly how would you implement your compassionate charity? Like it or not there are always going to be folks who for some reason or the other cannot take care of themselves. A truly compassionate person would want those people to have all of their needs met too and for them to be able to maintain a little dignity in the process. Here in WV our churches are having a hard time meeting payroll, are having to eliminate youth ministers, and after school programs....they can certainly not afford to take over these programs. If the government is not there to help those who can't make it on their own they usually end up going without. A lot of families can't even manage to have enough in savings for their own rainy days much less be able to give to those who have even less than they do. So if not government sponsored programs where is this compassionate charity going to come from? I've got it.....when the rich have to pay less taxes because there are no goverment programs to help the poor they will suddenly develop a conscience and help out those who can't do for themselves. Right, that is until let's see......"Well, I could go for the top of the line Mercedes, but no I'm feeling compassionate so I will help the poor instead. Then again I do deserve the nicer car, the poor will still be around the next time I get a bonus, i'Il be compassionate then.............." I am not willing to leave the well being of a part of our society up to the whims of a group that up until now have not demonstrated their willingness to take care of those less fortunate than themselves...
    Last edited by Piel; 08-21-2004 at 11:32 AM.

  7. #112
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    Piel, I would even take it one step further. In order to reduce poverty for our children's generation, we have to invest NOW. It is far easier to give one a check than it is to teach that person to earn it themselves. The Republicans always talk about how they are the ones who want people to take care of themselves; what their programs lack, however, is the funding. Teaching someone to be competitive in the marketplace takes time and money; lots of money.

    The only way to really attack the problem is to invest in education starting from pre-K. Today, a poor mother who is off to work is often forced to leave her children in very sub-standard child care facilities. Those kids then do not get the skills they need to excel in school later on. Let me give one example: preschool age children in poor families spend more time in front of the TV; consequently, their eyes are not trained to focus on a page the way looking at pictures in a children's book does; when those kids then go on to school, teachers have very tough time teaching them to read partly because those kids' eyes don't know how to look at a book page. This is only one example. IMO, a progressive government is one that does not try save pennies today just to have to spend hundreds of dollars in the future.

  8. #113
    On Edge Piel's Avatar
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    Thers was a girl in my Girl Scout troop who was in eighth grade named R. She spends about a third of the year in the pshyciatric hospital for various disorders. The mother also has three younger children ages 6, 7 , and 8. when the younger child reached school age the mother had to go to work. She is certified to work as a respiratory therapist but can only get a job as needed which means usually midnight shift and not enough hours to earn a living. Since she doesn't need daycare for the kids on any regular basis none is available when she does need it. She takes what hours she can get at a little family owned restaurant that means three different buses each way and if she has the later shift no bus home. Because of R's age and behaviour probelms she is not welcome at day care when it is available. R had to drop out of GS because she now is responsible for watching the younger kids or if the mom can get child care for them R goes to work with Mom so that Mom doesn't have to walk home from work alone at midnight on school nights plus she makes a few bucks helping to bus tables. Are fifty million laws being broken, you bet! What is the solutiion?
    Last edited by Piel; 08-21-2004 at 12:21 PM.

  9. #114
    Tripping on the Podium
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    So the current system is working well, then?

  10. #115
    On Edge Piel's Avatar
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    No it isn't. That's why we need Kerry in there :D . It would be wonderful if everyone could be self supporting but that will never happen. There are always going to be those who cannot make it on their own for whatever reasons.. As a human being I feel that it is my duty to look out for those who can't take care of themselves. As a country we should want to take care of our fellow citizens. I realize that not everyone feels that way. The best way for those who have to help those who have not is through government programs. Even with all of their faults it is the fairest way for those who have the most (through taxation) to reach everyone who needs it (by way of government programs). Leave it up to churches and individuals and those that would choose to help will put conditions on who receives assistance. Government run programs are far from perfect but are still the best solution.

  11. #116
    Da' Spellin' Homegirl Grgranny's Avatar
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    It's so hard to know the best ways of handling these things. I know my daughter and I are really thankful that Medicare and Social Security pay what they do but since she also gets state help, she gets too much to be able to receive food stamps or any other help, even though her income isn't near enough to pay for her expenses. Since most of it is alternative medicine they don't help with that either and I end up having to help her out a lot. And there isn't much left to help that much more. She's tried a lot of things but nobody will pay any more. And she sure isn't able to work. On her good days she can walk around by holding on to things but on her bad days she can't even use her walker and has to crawl.

  12. #117
    On Edge Piel's Avatar
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    Grgranny, I feel so bad for your daughter. She continues to be in my prayers. Our health care system must be changed so that everyone can recieve the medical care they need. I don't understand how those who keep putting up the road blocks can live with themselves . It is bad enough to be sick but then to have to practically beg and fight for medical care is just more than anyone shoukld have to do. As a country we should be ashamed.

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