The ultimatum: love or hate

RIskatingfan --

I never actually said that I disliked Urmanov himself; I did say that I disliked his skating. When I made the comment about not reading anything positive about him, I was actually talking about "reviews" of his skating. And I will also admit that he did go over as a skater MUCH better in Europe than he did in North America, where they have a higher appreciation (or tolerance, depending on point of view) for the sort of stuff he did in his programs.

I was actually unaware of most of what he's been up to lately; unsure if this is due to being out of the loop (it wouldn't be the first time ) or due to Urmanov not getting much attention in this country.

I understand many North American fans would prefered to see the gold medal going to Elvis Stojko or Kurt Browning and still hold that against Urmanov.

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Sorry to rant, but this "North American" nonsense kills me! Canada, US and Mexico are three separate coutries with, each with their own skaters. Do you really think that US people care if a Canadian win an Oly title or not? Yeah, we were all just jumping for joy and partying in the streets when Elvis beat Todd at worlds, it was only when Alexei beat Todd that we got mad.

berthes ghost said:

Sorry to rant, but this "North American" nonsense kills me! Canada, US and Mexico are three separate coutries with, each with their own skaters. Do you really think that US people care if a Canadian win an Oly title or not? Yeah, we were all just jumping for joy and partying in the streets when Elvis beat Todd at worlds, it was only when Alexei beat Todd that we got mad.

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I say "North American" because I see it not only as a matter of countries (Canada vs Russia), but as a matter of style too and in general, preference. And in that sense, it seems to me that yes, most NORTH AMERICAN fans would prefer Stojko or Browning to win instead of Urmanov. Do you wanna run a poll to see what answers you will get? LOL Try this: who would you prefer to win in 1994 and list the country where you live LOL I'm predicting the replies would give an overwhelming amount of votes to the Canadian skaters from both Americans and Canadians fans

JohnnyCoop, I had seen the thread "love/hate" skaters as including both the skating and the persona, given sometimes it's hard to judge those two separatedly. So sorry if I didn't interpret your post very well I think Urmanov is getting his share of attention in his own country but I'll also admit that he's a little "media shy" so to speak, so not surprising we don't have news all the time about him. We did have a very interesting interview with him some months ago. He was the caller in ISU events that used COP this season and he had some interesting things to say. I wish I could have a link to give you, but I have no idea where the interview is LOL

RIskatingfan said:

JohnnyCoop, I had seen the thread "love/hate" skaters as including both the skating and the persona, given sometimes it's hard to judge those two separatedly. So sorry if I didn't interpret your post very well

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That's OK, I admit I rather mixed things up myself in my post; when I was talking about Urmanov, I was referring mostly to his skating, and when I referred to Gritshuk, I went off mostly about her personality; given my "treatment" of Gritshuk, I can understand how someone could think I would put Urmanov in the same vein.

berthes ghost said:

Sorry to rant, but this "North American" nonsense kills me! Canada, US and Mexico are three separate coutries with, each with their own skaters. Do you really think that US people care if a Canadian win an Oly title or not? Yeah, we were all just jumping for joy and partying in the streets when Elvis beat Todd at worlds, it was only when Alexei beat Todd that we got mad.

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I disagree. Sure, Americans' first choice for gold are US skaters. However, if there are no US skaters, Americans (in general) certainly root for Candians. The support that Sale & Pelletier got from non-skating-fans in 2002 is certainly related to them being Candians. Let me put it another way: if Canadian hockey teams is playing the Russians, who do you think Americans will root for?

Let me put it another way: if Canadian hockey teams is playing the Russians, who do you think Americans will root for?

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Sorry, I just don't know anyone like that.

When I went to SOI and J RO bored the pants off me but I came back to GSF the next day to gush about how much I enjoyed Kat, Katia and Oksana, I just don't think that either thier or my nationality played into it. Why would I bother to go to Euros every year and root for Maria over Irina or Liashenko over Sebastian if I only cared about NA skaters? Quite frankly I didn't care for either Elvis or Alexei in Lillehammer and couldn't care less which one won, nor do I know anyone who does.

Just my personal experience.

I always used to root for Canadians if the US had no skater in contention. But then I read a thread on another board where many, many Canadians said they would never root for a US skater, and if there were no Canadian skaters in contention, they'd just root against the US skaters.

That one gave me pause for thought. So now I root for the skater I happen to like best, regardless of country. Occasionally, that will be a Canadian. But not that often.

And if it was the Canadian vs. the Russian hockey team? I'd probably toss a coin.

I wonder if all those Russian skaters and coaches are suffering tortures here because we hate them so much? Honestly, it's closer to the truth to say, we don't want to give them back. Although we probably wouldn't grieve too long for Grishuk, we would definitely roll out the Welcome Wagon for Urmanov. I'm not a big fan of his skating, but he seems like a sweetheart and is definitely a good skater. Americans are not cold-hearted, Russian-haters.

Canadians vs Russians ??? I'm for whoever plays/skates the best. That's also true of US/Russian/Canadian/Jamaican/...

SusanBeth said:

I wonder if all those Russian skaters and coaches are suffering tortures here because we hate them so much? Honestly, it's closer to the truth to say, we don't want to give them back. Although we probably wouldn't grieve too long for Grishuk, we would definitely roll out the Welcome Wagon for Urmanov. I'm not a big fan of his skating, but he seems like a sweetheart and is definitely a good skater. Americans are not cold-hearted, Russian-haters.

Canadians vs Russians ??? I'm for whoever plays/skates the best. That's also true of US/Russian/Canadian/Jamaican/...

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I think you missed the point. Nobody said Americans are Russian haters. What was said is that it's only natural that American fans like their own skaters the most, just as Japanese fans will root for their own skaters, Russian fans root for Russians and Germans root for Germans as it was well seen in Dortmund. A few skaters can break that barrier and will get the same reception wherever they skate, but this not the rule. Sure, many fans (like you) don't care about nationalistic aspects but many do and from what we see around in the Internet and from what can be seen in the venues, it's what prevails. Skaters of the country that hosts an event will get more support from the audience, this is nothing new. Again, not everyone is like this, but the majority is.

So, it's natural that Canadians don't like Urmanov as much as Russians and IMO it's also only natural that Americans don't like Urmanov as much because his style wasn't as appealing to them as the Canadians Stojko and Browning were. And this is nothing new either, you can see how fans from different countries feel about Urmanov. Many fans in these English boards, including Goldenskate, say he didn't deserve the medal, many don't like his skating and many think he will be forgotten in a few years (although I don't see how, as we are always talking about him LOL). If you go to Russian boards this will not be the main opinion. Surprising? Not really.

it's also only natural that Americans don't like Urmanov as much because his style wasn't as appealing to them as the Canadians Stojko and Browning were.

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That's my point. It had nothing to do with his being Russian. It was his style. During SLC, people wanted Todd and Timmy to do well, but it was either Yagudin or Plushenko for the gold. I do agree, that if we have a skater truly deserving of gold, we will back them. However, we don't support an undeserving skater over a deserving one regardless of nationality.

It seems as though you are saying, Urmanov's style is more popular in Europe therefore, this breaks down to Europe vs America. I'm saying, Urmanov's style isn't as popular here, therefore, we'll take Yagudin, Plushenko, Irina S, Katia G, Oksana B, Kulik, Abt, Petrenko, Maria......etc How many Russian skaters do we have to adore, before it becomes obvious that we love Russian skating?

ETA I do realize that Oksana B and Petrenko are from the Ukraine, but I consider them to be a part of Russian skating too.

BTW, my favorite male skater hands down is Plushenko. If it's Weiss or Goebel vs. Plushenko, I root for Plushenko. I'd be torn, though if it was Weir (with quads) vs. Plushenko. I guess I'd be happy if one won and the other was second, in any order.

I cheer for Kwan in ladies; B/A and the Bulgarians in ice dance; and the 3 Chinese teams in Pairs.

1. In my post, I said that I thought Sale & Pelletier got more supprot from US non-skating-fans on the part of them being Canadian. All of us here at GoldenSkate are fans, so it's natural that we look the actual skating more than we do at the country the skater represents.

2. As for support for Canadian hockey, I was actually at a bar on the day Canada was playing Russia at SLC Olympics. Whenever Canada would score, there would be a huge cheer going through the bar. Naturally, I expect those same people supported US when US played Canada for the gold.

Personally, I root for who I like. I practically worship Browning, for example, but can't stand Stojko, and think Urmanov easily beat him in '94.