Skipping Juniors

Skate2Music · Dec 29, 2014

Hello,

Do you have to compete at junior's in international competition to move to senior's or is it okay
to move to senior's as long as you've met your countries and ISU's standards for age and required technical + artistic ability.
For example a skater finishes novice and feels like they aren't ready for international competition until they mature more and only compete to fulfil ISU's standards until they reach senior level?

-Has it been done before?

- Do you think its a good idea?

IcyEdges · Dec 29, 2014

Skate2Music said:
Hello,

Do you have to compete at junior's in international competition to move to senior's or is it okay
to move to senior's as long as you've met your countries and ISU's standards for age and required technical + artistic ability.
For example a skater finishes novice and feels like they aren't ready for international competition until they mature more and only compete as minimally possible only to fulfil ISU's standards until the senior level? Has this been done before, since I'm a newer fan and very curious.

(Has it been done before/ Do you think its a good idea?)

Jeremy Abbott never competed in the ISU JGP(Junior Grand Prix circuit). And he's been successful on the Sr GP and is 4 time Sr National Champ.

mnm464 · Dec 29, 2014

Skate2Music said:
Hello,

Do you have to compete at junior's in international competition to move to senior's or is it okay
to move to senior's as long as you've met your countries and ISU's standards for age and required technical + artistic ability.
For example a skater finishes novice and feels like they aren't ready for international competition until they mature more and only compete as minimally possible only to fulfil ISU's standards until the senior level? Has this been done before, since I'm a newer fan and very curious.

(Has it been done before/ Do you think its a good idea?)

You don't have to compete internationally to skate. It has been done before . You might/probably miss out on valuable comp. experience though.

MalAssada · Dec 29, 2014

Agreed ^^^. The experience one gains in the junior fields is important when a skater turns senior. The move isn't quite a shock, because in seniors you have skaters that, like you, are only begining, but you also have Olympic medalists, World champions... It is a lot different competing in novice, juniors and seniors.

karne · Dec 29, 2014

IcyEdges said:
Jeremy Abbott never competed in the ISU JGP(Junior Grand Prix circuit). And he's been successful on the Sr GP and is 4 time Sr National Champ.

I would not use Jeremy as a great example of someone who's done well without Juniors, but I would use him as an example of someone who might have needed that valuable competition experience...

Competition experience is invaluable IMO. Junior Grand Prix is a good start - full international panels, crowds that are often marginally bigger than a club comp, international competitors, and if you make the JGPF, a proper big crowd. And of course, the dealing-with-nerves aspect. I fully believe that if you are a nervy skater, then the more competitions, the better.

Nowadays, too, a lot of politiking goes on with the JGP. Skaters are coming from it already with judge rep in hand and some with well-established fanbases. (Others don't pick up the fanbase until they become Senior.) The Junior circuit is so fierce now that the top Juniors only differ from Seniors in their maturity. Every time I watch the videos of Josh and Jason at 2013 JWC I always shake my head and think, they were already Seniors at this point.

LiamForeman · Dec 29, 2014

Did Baiul ever compete internationally as a Junior? I don't think she did.

dorispulaski · Dec 29, 2014

Michelle Kwan tested up to senior at age 13.
Her only international Junior comp was the 1994 World Junior championship
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Kwan
Undeniably, it worked for her

Icey · Dec 29, 2014

Actually, Abbott did compete as a junior internationally, at the Copenhagen Trophy , where he won a bronze medal in the junior competition.

Icey · Dec 29, 2014

dorispulaski said:
Michelle Kwan tested up to senior at age 13.
Her only international Junior comp was the 1994 World Junior championship
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Kwan
Undeniably, it worked for her

Michelle also competed at the Gardena Spring Trophy as a junior the year before the World Junior Championships.

BedazzledSpins · Dec 29, 2014

IcyEdges said:
Jeremy Abbott never competed in the ISU JGP(Junior Grand Prix circuit). And he's been successful on the Sr GP and is 4 time Sr National Champ.

Icey said:
Actually, Abbott did compete as a junior internationally, at the Copenhagen Trophy , where he won a bronze medal in the junior competition.

I think what IcyEdges was stating (correct me if I'm wrong IcyEdges) was that Abbott never competed on the Junior Grand Prix circuit like most skaters and still did well as a Senior. There was no statement that he never competed Junior overall. :think:

Jammers · Dec 29, 2014

Gracie had very little JGP experience also with just one event. I'm not sure staying Junior for another year would have helped her though since she's a nervous skating regardless of what level she skates in plus she was ready to challenge the Senior skaters at least Nationally the next season just by the way she dominated Jr Nationals so staying a Junior didn't make sense.

Shani · Dec 29, 2014

It is the country federations choice to send a skater to International competition. It is the skater and coach choice to determine the best level of success on a national level to be selected for international competition.

IcyEdges · Dec 31, 2014

BedazzledSpins said:
I think what IcyEdges was stating (correct me if I'm wrong IcyEdges) was that Abbott never competed on the Junior Grand Prix circuit like most skaters and still did well as a Senior. There was no statement that he never competed Junior overall. :think:

:thumbsup:

concorde · Jan 3, 2015

Personally I cannot see why someone would want to skip US Juniors. There are many top US Junior skates that have not been able to transition to Seniors, so I don't think the very top Novice would stand a chance skipping Juniors. There is a huge difference in the quality of the skating between Novice and Seniors, not to mention the required jumping skills. If they just wanted to say they completed at the Senior at level, that is one thing, but to be competitive is another thing.

In the US, most skating levels are determined by skill set, not by age. One exception is the "Juvenile" level where you need to be under 13 by September 1 of the year when you compete at Regionals. If you are over that age, you compete at the "Open Juvenile" level. The second exception is at Intermediate where you need to be under 18.

However, at the international level, it depends on the skater's age. You can skate at the US Senior level but still be assigned to skate internationally as a Junior until you are 18. For certain International competitions (Olympics and Worlds), there is a certain minimum age that must be reached to compete at the Senior level. Both Yuna Kim and Mao Asada were born in September 1990 so they were too young for the 2006 Olympics. I believe Elena Radionova was too young to compete at Sochi so this was her first year internationally as a Senior.

fleeting · Jan 3, 2015

Chris and Cathy Reed come to mind for me. They competed on the American Novice circuit, even becoming the national Novice champions in 2005-2006. As children of a Japanese citizen, they were born with duel citizenship. The Japanese federation offered them the chance to represent Japan after the 2005-2006 season - there was a steep national field at the time, with the Hubbells finishing under them in novice, Davis/White, Samuelson/Bates, and Kaitlyn Weaver with her old partner just above them in juniors, and Belbin/Agosto, Matthews/Zavozin, and Gregory/Petukhov in seniors. They took the Japanese fed up on their offer and skipped the junior level entirely to represent Japan on the senior level in 2007.

I think staying on the junior circuit would have definitely benefited them - they had great potential, but without any in-country competition (considering the only other teams have the boy as a non-citizen), they stagnated. But they did get to go to two Olympics and multiple worlds, so I suppose it wasn't a total loss. :think:

Scout · Jan 3, 2015

Emily Hughes won bronze at Jr Worlds and then decided that she's do GP next season, so she never competed JGP.

Sasha Cohen had some, but very limited junior international competition. I think 1 JGP, 1 Jr Worlds and maybe 1 other junior int comp.

Some skaters age out of juniors before they get the chance to compete, such as Canadian Veronik Mallet. She's a lovely skater and I'll be rooting for her at Canadian Nationals, but I think it will be difficult for her to find success at the senior international level.

noskates · Jan 3, 2015

I think the more competition you can get under your belt the better prepared you are. Doing well in Juniors can be a huge boost to your confidence. I remember Frank being furious with Michelle and I also remember seeing her look like a little girl in seniors. The big transformation came the year after. But at Nats this year I noticed some men in juniors that had been there awhile.....hmmm.

mnm464 · Jan 3, 2015

I agree. They seem to be one of the better Asian ID teams I've seen, but b/c they take from Marina and her team, they have similar elements to the Russian S/K.

Skipping Juniors

Skate2Music

IcyEdges

Match Penalty

mnm464

MalAssada

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

Icey

Icey

BedazzledSpins

Jammers

Shani

IcyEdges

Match Penalty

concorde

fleeting

Queen Anissina

Scout

noskates

mnm464

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