Sui/ Han's Throw Quad! GOE+2

yqs100 · Jan 10, 2015

Team China is practicing throw quad a few weeks ago.

here is a clip posted by hongbo

http://video.weibo.com/show?fid=1034:9db10a645a7456bc56c6100dd61a372d

Macassar88 · Jan 10, 2015

Nice! Hope they can do two quads in their free again

Sandpiper · Jan 10, 2015

That actually looked quite beautiful, unlike most quad throws I've seen (though I wish I didn't need to crane my neck to watch it :laugh:

). Hopefully they can improve their consistency and PCS, because then they'll rule the world.

HanDomi · Jan 10, 2015

I am becoming fan of them, I am definitely fan of her :biggrin:

Love their SP and LP is not bad too

their throw quad at Worlds 2012
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4gl3WGieZ0#t=36

simply spectacular :dance:

shiroKJ · Jan 10, 2015

Wow! It seems like the quad throws/twists are to Chinese pair's as 3A are to Japanese ladies. :dance:

s_parks · Jan 10, 2015

Wow! They tried it several times earlier in their career, but I believe they two footed it most of the time. They have great technique, considering their small height difference.

BounceAround · Jan 10, 2015

For anyone who is interested, at the end, someone screamed, "Got it!"

s_parks · Jan 10, 2015

BounceAround said:
For anyone who is interested, at the end, someone screamed, "Got it!"

Thanks, I was wondering what that was.

Skater Boy · Jan 11, 2015

The Russians must be in awe and panicking. All the Russian teams are lacking difficulty. K and S are lacking individual jumps and consistency - it might sadly be age too. V and T and S and K don't have the big throws, lifts or twists (quads) or super difficulty and their individual jumps are pretty solid but not hard compared to Duhamel and Radford. Although unlikely it is possible the Chinese and Candians could beat all the Russians (well two or three Chinese and Duhamel and RAdford

QuadThrow · Jan 12, 2015

Skater Boy said:
The Russians must be in awe and panicking. All the Russian teams are lacking difficulty. K and S are lacking individual jumps and consistency - it might sadly be age too. V and T and S and K don't have the big throws, lifts or twists (quads) or super difficulty and their individual jumps are pretty solid but not hard compared to Duhamel and Radford. Although unlikely it is possible the Chinese and Candians could beat all the Russians (well two or three Chinese and Duhamel and RAdford

I am not sure. V/T got GOE +3 in almost every throw last year.

V/T (3Tw4 8,30; 3LoTh 7,10; 3STh 6,60)
D/R (GPF) (3Tw3 7,20 ;4STh 8,71; 3LzTh 6,80)

There is only a difference of 0,71!

The difference in concerning the Base Value is 3,60 (not that high either)

I do not think that it is fair, But that is the system of pair skating.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jan 12, 2015

It really isn't fair. Not to mention even if V/T make errors on their throws they still get +GOE whereas teams like K/S, S/H and D/R have executed clean quad throws and get only -1s, 0's or 1's.

Sandpiper · Jan 12, 2015

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
It really isn't fair. Not to mention even if V/T make errors on their throws they still get +GOE whereas teams like K/S, S/H and D/R have executed clean quad throws and get only -1s, 0's or 1's.

The problem is so few teams do a quad throw that looks any good. S/H's looks nice in the air but is usually two-footed. D/R's has a very swingy landing. K/S can get the throw around, but it doesn't scream QUAD! in an impressive way. Imo, the BV is the problem. (I don't agree with V/T's Sochi GOE, but the jury's still out on whether it'll continue).

BounceAround · Jan 12, 2015

Sandpiper said:
The problem is so few teams do a quad throw that looks any good.

This one screams "Quad!" http://youtu.be/d2dUqG7xTLE?t=45s

HanDomi · Jan 12, 2015

BounceAround said:
This one screams "Quad!" http://youtu.be/d2dUqG7xTLE?t=45s

Sandpiper · Jan 12, 2015

BounceAround said:
This one screams "Quad!" http://youtu.be/d2dUqG7xTLE?t=45s

Yeah, this one is often cited as one of the best quad throws. Can't say I disagree.

Maybe Hao Zhang will bring it back with Cheng Peng sometime?

Back to the topic of Sui/Han... what do they need to do to increase that PCS? I think they do have presentation skills (like Eurosport has said many times)... but somehow they're just not pulling those marks. More speed/better SS? Consistency? Better programs? :think:

HanDomi · Jan 12, 2015

Sui/Han throw quad sooooooome time ago at juniors
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr1tpyrH4HM

He just took her and throw like a bullet :biggrin:

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jan 12, 2015

HanDomi said:
Sui/Han throw quad sooooooome time ago at juniors
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr1tpyrH4HM

He just took her and throw like a bullet

Hah, I think that's what I love most about their throws... they seem to have no regard for control or safety and he literally throws her knowing she'll somehow land it no matter how high or far he flings her. :laugh:

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jan 12, 2015

Sandpiper said:
Yeah, this one is often cited as one of the best quad throws. Can't say I disagree. Maybe Hao Zhang will bring it back with Cheng Peng sometime?

Back to the topic of Sui/Han... what do they need to do to increase that PCS? I think they do have presentation skills (like Eurosport has said many times)... but somehow they're just not pulling those marks. More speed/better SS? Consistency? Better programs? :think:

I think it's consistency. To me, they're doing everything correctly. Their biggest "issue" is their age, or rather, how young they look - other couples have the luxury of "looking mature". Like Radionova, they have to continually skate strong performances to increase their PCS marks. Their skating skills and presentation are excellent for what they've got to work with (i.e. shedding the "juniorish" quality). They could use more speed, but everything's there. To be honest, they just need to skate consistently and keep doing that. I'm so impressed at how much more refined they are and how nuanced their choreo has become, unfortunately, they still look like kids which is obviously something they can't control.

HanDomi · Jan 12, 2015

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Hah, I think that's what I love most about their throws... they seem to have no regard for control or safety and he literally throws her knowing she'll somehow land it no matter how high or far he flings her.

judging by second throw from this video it looks to me like they were practicing even throw quad flip, she finished that rotation very much in the air :shocked:

Sandpiper · Jan 12, 2015

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
I think it's consistency. To me, they're doing everything correctly. Their biggest "issue" is their age, or rather, how young they look - other couples have the luxury of "looking mature". Like Radionova, they have to continually skate strong performances to increase their PCS marks. Their skating skills and presentation are excellent for what they've got to work with (i.e. shedding the "juniorish" quality). They could use more speed, but everything's there. To be honest, they just need to skate consistently and keep doing that. I'm so impressed at how much more refined they are and how nuanced their choreo has become, unfortunately, they still look like kids which is obviously something they can't control.

I think they're in an even tougher position than "young-looking ladies skaters." There is a fairly strong tradition in women's singles of young success stories (Lipinski, Baiul, Hughes, Kwan, Lipnitskaya) However, it's hard to think of a very young-looking pairs team that the judges went with.

When I look at the scores, it seems like S/K and D/R with multiple errors would still place ahead. I don't want to join the "overscored Russians and Canadians!!" train, because many such claims are unfounded. But I do wonder... imagine if Sui/Han had been at the Olympics and had two perfect, breath-taking skates. Would the judges have given them silver like they gave S/K? Somehow I doubt that, regardless of how many errors their opponents make.

Anyway, they're still young, and I don't think the judges will ignore them forever. I'm probably fretting over nothing. For this season, a first World medal wouldn't be bad.

Sui/ Han's Throw Quad! GOE+2

yqs100

Macassar88

Sandpiper

HanDomi

shiroKJ

Back to the forest you go.

s_parks

BounceAround

s_parks

Skater Boy

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