Who do you think should coach Kirk now?

Of all the people that I would pick to coach Jenny would be...

surprise, Paul Wylie...they both had the Scovalds as their coach, they both are dramatic skaters (yes, Jenny is a dramatic skater as opposed to a lyrical one) and both are from the Newton area of Mass. I think their common backgrounds and Paul's probable need to "take it to the next stage of his career" would be a great fit. Now this is all a pipedream, but "dreams that come true" all start with an idea...who do you think would coach her well?

p.s. I've lost a lot of respect for Carroll over the past few years, I really DON'T think he's a great emotional support for skaters and I hope ( if she already hasn't) that Angela goes elsewhere for skating "nourishment" of her talents. I think she's regressed under Carroll and that was before her injury. Carroll is known for no nonsense coaching and has publically stated that he's not there for the emotional health of his skaters (an obvious paraphrase) and that he had problems with Chris Bowman for this very reason...that he wasn't there to help Bowman overcome his problelms, he was there to coach him in figure skating. Both Angela and Jenny seem to be the kind of skaters that need more from a coach than "skill improvement". And, by the way, I am SO glad that Jenny is not with Callihan anymore. I've know people that skated with him, skaters that tried out with him and others that have dealt with him, the nicest thing I can say for the man is that in dealing with others in public, he's not the warmest or kindest of individuals with whom to deal. I do know that all of my information about him is second hand, yet the sources of his detraction come from people that don't know each other.

It makes me begin to wonder that all of this hubub over Robin Wagner's enthusiasm and support of her pupils isn't warrented and that maybe, just maybe, we need coaches that nurture the skaters from inside and out. Wow, what a rant, how did I get from "there" to "here"?????

Sk8m8, that's an interesting question about whether a skating coach should just coach skating or whether he/she should offer warmth and emotional support as well. I remember reading that the reason Frank Carroll and Danny Kwan got along fine was because it was well understood that Frank was Michelle's coach and not her father, and that Mr. K. was Michelle's father and not her coach.

I can see it working out that way for skaters who have strong emotional support from their families.

But then for a skater like Oksana Baiul, maybe the coach has to play a dual role. (?)

Mathman

A coach should not be expected to be an emotional crutch.

Jenny Kirk is not Angela Nikodinov. I don't think Jenny needs an emotional crutch, but she doesn't need a cold fish, either.

Frank Carroll would be an improvement.

Euterpe, you make an interesting and accurate point. I do have to wonder, though, at the improvement from Sasha after a few months with Robin, they had only been together for a couple of weeks at Nats, but by Worlds, OMG, what a difference in Sasha! Not to mention her season capping performance at, of all things, the Marshall's Cheesefest.

Now mind you, I don't think Robin is a "crutch" for Sasha, but I do think a skater like Sasha is showing much more "true emotion" on ice and that only really comes from being in a "safe and secure place" personally. Sasha lives with Robin during the week when they train together, and I do wonder if this kind of emotional bond between skater and coach doesn't help a lot of skaters, who, quite frankly, often times, have less than "average" childhoods due in large part to the choices they make over the pursuit of their skating goals...once again, just thought

I think that with skaters moving away from home to train at a very young age, a coach is obligated to provide some form of emotional guidance and support. There's no doubt in my mind that the one on one attention Sasha is receiving from Robin is really helping her blossom into a better skater. Some skaters need more emotional support than others. Todd Eldredge obviously got what he needed to be successful out of his relationship with Richard. Perhaps Richard's reserved businesslike style really suited Todd to a T.

I do think that Frank Carroll would provide some emotional support for Jenny if she trains with him. Frank really tried with Chris Bowman but sometimes there's only so much a person can take. I imagine Chris's drug problems and self destruction were devastating for Frank to watch, especially since Frank had been coaching Chris since he was a young boy.

I don't see Paul coaching Jenny b/c the rule of thumb is that great skaters do not make great coaches. It takes a skater who had to plod through the elements in order to get them to teach the elements well. Plus Paul seems to be getting somewhat back into performing and I don't think he wants to take time away from his marketing career to be a coach. Maybe Jenny should just go back to the source: the Scotvolds. Jenny was much healthier looking when she was with the Scotvolds and maybe she and the Scotvolds can do something different not that Jenny had been away for a while and picked up new techniques.

I don't think it's a question of what a coach "should" and "should not" do. TT could no more stop being motherly than Mishin could start being warm and fuzzy. Also, I resent "emotional crutch". Needing someone who understands you and cares for your emotional well being is not having an emotional crutch. I have no problem with coaches staying distant and professional; just as I don't have a problem with a skater who needs something else.

Ptichka said:

I don't think it's a question of what a coach "should" and "should not" do. TT could no more stop being motherly than Mishin could start being warm and fuzzy. Also, I resent "emotional crutch". Needing someone who understands you and cares for your emotional well being is not having an emotional crutch. I have no problem with coaches staying distant and professional; just as I don't have a problem with a skater who needs something else.

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That sums up my opinions exactly!!!

I could see Jenny working well with frank, I dont think he was entirely "biz is biz" with Michelle... when you watch fluff peices from both sides about their break up, you can see that there was signifigant emotional investment.

I think Jenny has a lot of potential, I would love to see her find a coaching environment that would help her skate her best consistantly.

Kirk's basic skating skills in terms of stroking efficiency, edge quality, and some of her jumps need to improve. I think Ness would be a good solid coach for her.

gezando said:

I think Ness would be a good solid coach for her.

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Good choice! I forgot all about her, actually. I was thinking along the lines of maybe a Doug Leigh or a Louis Stong or a Peter Dunfield, since Jenny has that "Canadian connection" with Fedor Andreev.

I think anyone would be an improvement over Callaghan -- I don't understand why he still draws these skaters; everything I've heard pretty much says (a) he's a control freak, or (b) he spends very little time doing the actual coaching, instead having his underlings do most of it while he gets all the credit , or (c) both.

I haven't been around much the past few days - When did Kirk and him split? Will she stay in the Detriot area? Personally, I thought they worked well together. No, hes not an over-zealous or highly emotional coach, but he gave her what she needed - clean programs!
Laura

sk8m8 said:

It makes me begin to wonder that all of this hubub over Robin Wagner's enthusiasm and support of her pupils isn't warrented and that maybe, just maybe, we need coaches that nurture the skaters from inside and out. Wow, what a rant, how did I get from "there" to "here"?????

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I'm a little too skeptical of "open enthusiasm and support" equaling success as a coach. IIRC Sarah Hughes has a stable and loving family, and as soon as she made the decision that college was the right thing for her to do, Robin's warmth quickly cooled.
I would assume that Sasha has a caring family as well (I have read or heard nothing negative about their relationship with Sasha). If Robin can get Sasha the skills (physical or psychological) to skate cleanly, she will be the coach Sasha needed. Gushy or not.

I don't think that Robin turned on Sarah when she decided to go to college. From what I've read, Sarah just left Robin hanging as to whether she would continue skating after she went to college. As a result, Robin just "gave" up hoping for her return and moved on to Sasha. According to Robin, Sarah never returned her phone calls when she asked her about her plans so Robin decided to coach Sasha.

hmmm...what about Marina Zoueva? She's already skating with Fedor...

thisthingcalledlove said:

hmmm...what about Marina Zoueva? She's already skating with Fedor...

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Zoueva's a choreographer. Galina Zmievskaya is a good technical coach.

gezando said:

Kirk's basic skating skills in terms of stroking efficiency, edge quality, and some of her jumps need to improve. I think Ness would be a good solid coach for her.

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I don't think it's a good idea since Ness is already working with Bebe, and that would certainly be a conflict of interest.

Ptichka said:

I don't think it's a good idea since Ness is already working with Bebe, and that would certainly be a conflict of interest.

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Oh I don't know that BeBe is with Ness, I thought Chin is her coach.

Yes, Tiffiny Chin is Bebe's long time coach, and (though I may be mistaken) her only one, at that. I think the confusion comes when people didn't hear the commentary at Nats. Tiffiny was too far along in her pregnancy to accompany Bebe to Nats in Atlanta. I know someone was there with her to support her and assist her in Chin's abscence...it could have been Ness who was just there for moral support in the Kiss and Cry.

I sure wish Fossi were still around. He would be the perfect coach to help her achieve the top of the podium results, which I think she is most capable of acheiving. She has all the goods, great looks, (mostly) sound technique, balletic dance training, and a real sense of drama about her. I actually wasn't too serious when I started this thread about the whole Paul Wylie thing. However, what I meant to really say ( I think ) is that someone with Paul's qualities would be and excellent fit for Kirk. Come to think of it, what's Scott Williams doing now??? I wish Chris Dean weren't so busy with Choreography and business, I think he'd also make a great coach for a skater like Kirk.

I think if Fassi were still around, he'd've snatched Kirk up years ago. Jenny would be the PERFECT Carlo Fassi skater! Is Christa Fassi still coaching at all? Hmmm....

sk8m8 said:

Yes, Tiffiny Chin is Bebe's long time coach, and (though I may be mistaken) her only one, at that. I think the confusion comes when people didn't hear the commentary at Nats. Tiffiny was too far along in her pregnancy to accompany Bebe to Nats in Atlanta. I know someone was there with her to support her and assist her in Chin's abscence...it could have been Ness who was just there for moral support in the Kiss and Cry.

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Perhaps you are right. It's just that in the ISU Bio it's listed as Ness. May be if Tiffany was too far along in her pregnancy to, Christy might have helped with coaching as well.