ISU Challenger Series modifications for 2015/16

ice coverage · Feb 7, 2015

ISU Communication No. 1928: ISU Challenger Series in Figure Skating Season 2015/16

With the experience gained during the first ISU Challenger Series season, some necessary modifications for the ISU Challenger Series season 2015/16 are summarized in this Communication.
http://static.isu.org/media/190985/...-2015-16-communicatin-version-jan-20-2015.pdf (six pages)

The document is dated and was posted on Feb 6.

http://www.isu.org/en/single-and-pa...nce/news/2015/02/isu-challenger-series-201516

Some of the modifications that jump out at me, based on a quick reading of the Communication:

2. COMPETITIONS INCLUDED

In recognition of the long standing tradition and merit of the following International Competitions, there will be a core group of four (4) ISU Challenger Series events, namely:
- Nebelhorn-Trophy in Oberstdorf (GER)
- Finlandia Trophy (FIN)
- Ondrej Nepela Trophy in Bratislava (SVK)
- Golden Spin of Zagreb (CRO)
In addition, in order to ensure one Challenger Series event in North America, there will be one ISU Challenger Series event in Canada or the United States to be announced after consultation with the respective ISU Members. ...
Up to a maximum of five (5) additional International Figure Skating Competitions may be added by the ISU Council based on the applications from organizing Members to be submitted to the ISU.

3. MIMIMUM REQUIREMENTS FOR APPLICABLE COMPETITIONS

... The International Competition must be scheduled between August 1 and December 15. The competitions, included in the “Challenger Series”, should not, if possible, clash with the dates of the ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating events.
The International Competition must include entries in at least 3 disciplines from minimum ten (10) different ISU Members, all disciplines combined. ...

5. PARTICIPATION

... There is a limitation for the Skaters/Couples to three (3) participations in the events of the ISU Challenger Series. The participation of Skaters from the organizing Member into the respective Challenger Series event is not limited. ...

ETA, correction:

The limit of three events is not new -- was the same for last year's series. Apologies for my confusion. (I mistakenly believed that last year's limit was two events ... got it garbled in my head because a maximum of two events counted toward the Challenger series rankings.)

13. TV/MEDIA RIGHTS – ADVERTISING RIGHTS

Organizing Members are encouraged to provide a TV production and allow TV coverage and/or live streaming of the events to be supported by social media coverage. ...

samson · Feb 7, 2015

^Very interesting. I don't remember how the roll out of designated events at this current season's Challenger Series went but it seems strange to me that potentially only 5 events will happen. But it looks like they're still making it possible for there to be 10 events in all. Did any events events clash with the grand prix? I'm thinking The Volvo Cup and Ice Challenge probably did yeah?

CaroLiza_fan · Feb 7, 2015

samson said:
^Very interesting. I don't remember how the roll out of designated events at this current season's Challenger Series went but it seems strange to me that potentially only 5 events will happen. But it looks like they're still making it possible for there to be 10 events in all. Did any events events clash with the grand prix? I'm thinking The Volvo Cup and Ice Challenge probably did yeah?

There was definitely at least one clash, as the week Anne-Line Gjersem was making her GP debut, twin sister Camilla was doing a Challenger Series event.

I think it was the Warsaw Cup, but I'm not definite. And since the Universiade Free Dance has now come back from their resurfacing, I won't have a chance to look it up for a while.

Sorry

CaroLiza_fan

katmari · Feb 7, 2015

samson said:
I'm thinking The Volvo Cup and Ice Challenge probably did yeah?

CaroLiza_fan said:
I think it was the Warsaw Cup, but I'm not definite.

I just checked the ISU calender of events and you are both right.

Volvo Cup clashed with Cup of China
Ice Challenge clashed with Rostelecom Cup
Warsaw Cup clashed with Trophee Bompard

It also sounds like the Challenger series will be losing one of the North American competitions. Any thoughts on which will stay?

US International Figure Skating Classic vs Skate Canada Autumn Classic

ice coverage · Feb 7, 2015

samson said:
^Very interesting. I don't remember how the roll out of designated events at this current season's Challenger Series went but it seems strange to me that potentially only 5 events will happen. But it looks like they're still making it possible for there to be 10 events in all. ...

Last season, all ten events were announced together in June as the Challenger Series list.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...cation-No-1854&p=881743&viewfull=1#post881743

In August, the required numbers of skaters per discipline had to be lowered b/c it seemed that many of the ten events were struggling to meet the minimums.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...cation-No-1854&p=975205&viewfull=1#post975205

The minimums per discipline for 2015 are the same as the revised minimums for 2014.

** But ... a modification for 2015 is that the whole event must include entries from at least ten ISU members. [I will add this modification to the OP.]
The revised minimum for 2014 was entries from at least twelve ISU members.

katmari said:
... It also sounds like the Challenger series will be losing one of the North American competitions. Any thoughts on which will stay?

US International Figure Skating Classic vs Skate Canada Autumn Classic

My interpretation is that the ISU has left the door open to keeping both of the North American events.

If fewer than five events from other countries apply for and qualify for the five open slots, seems to me that the ISU would opt to keep the second North American event.

dorispulaski · Feb 7, 2015

I am very sorry to see Golden Spin still included. Not only was video never made available, either live or otherwise, results were not posted in a timely fashion. It did not seem to be up to the standard of the other nine events. Just because an event is old, it does not mean it is well-run.

Furthermore, in a skating world where Asian countries have a huge number of wonderful skaters, it seems very wrong to me that they are again proposing either 9 European Challenge events and 1 North American or 8 European and 2 North American and 0 Asian events.

I hope Japan, Korea, China or Australia will put in a bid for one of the open spots!

ice coverage · Feb 7, 2015

dorispulaski said:
I am very sorry to see Golden Spin still included. Not only was video never made available, either live or otherwise, results were not posted in a timely fashion. It did not seem to be up to the standard of the other nine events. Just because an event is old, it does not mean it is well-run.

Furthermore, in a skating world where Asian countries have a huge number of wonderful skaters, it seems very wrong to me that they are again proposing either 9 European Challenge events and 1 North American or 8 European and 2 North American and 0 Asian events.

I hope Japan, Korea, China or Australia will put in a bid for one of the open spots!

Seems to me that the ISU's pointed new language about Challenger live streaming/television is trying to address the concern about video. Doesn't go so far to make it an absolute requirement, but seems as if ISU is openly applying pressure.

And the ISU is not proposing eight or nine European events for next season, and zero Asian events. That is just your pessimism talking.
To me, the five open slots are a clear indication that the ISU does not want the same list of ten events as last year's series. One of the reasons very well could be that it too was dissatisfied with the Eurocentrism.
I would be happy for Australia to get a Challenger event -- and for Asia to get one or more.

dorispulaski · Feb 7, 2015

Yes, it is my pessimism talking. However, 8/2 is how it came out last year, and did they keep the two? :slink:

well no. If they were aiming for diversity, they would have dropped Golden Spin, and kept both North American events. But they didn't.

If 5 Europeans don't successfully apply, maybe, there will be 2 North Americans or maybe not. My pessimism says it will be 9/1 :drama:

But I will live with that if they at least manage 8/1/1 the last one being Asia or Australia.

It will be a cold day in a traditionally warm place when ISU regrets Eurocentrism IMO. They will have to be dragged kicking and screaming to relinquish the stranglehold on Senior B's/Challenger events.

ice coverage · Feb 7, 2015

dorispulaski said:
Yes, it is my pessimism talking. However, 8/2 is how it came out last year, and did they keep the two? well no. If they were aiming for diversity, they would have dropped Golden Spin, and kept both North American events. But they didn't.

If 5 Europeans don't successfully apply, maybe, there will be 2 North Americans or maybe not. My pessimism says it will be 9/1

But I will live with that if they at least manage 8/1/1 the last one being Asia or Australia.

It will be a cold day in a traditionally warm place when ISU regrets Eurocentrism IMO. They will have to be dragged kicking and screaming to relinquish the stranglehold on Senior B's/Challenger events.

So my serious, non-snarky question is:

How did Asia become so well-entrenched when it comes to JGPs, GPs, and ISU Championships? :confused2:

GF2445 · Feb 7, 2015

It would be nice to have at least 3 challenger events outside Europe.

dorispulaski · Feb 7, 2015

golden411 said:
So my serious, non-snarky question is:

How did Asia become so well-entrenched when it comes to JGPs, GPs, and ISU Championships? :confused2:

If you want the serious answer, in the case of NHK, it was history- it was an ecisting competition in the fall that lots of foreign skaters attended. It predated the GP. ISU needed it to get enough.events for a fall series.

The interesting question is why Cup of China replaced Sparkassen, a German GP, when Germany didn't want the event any more. And I don't know. Perhaps China was the only country at the time that volunteered?

ice coverage · Feb 7, 2015

dorispulaski said:
If you want the serious answer, in the case of NHK, it was history- it was an ecisting competition in the fall that lots of foreign skaters attended. It predated the GP. ISU needed it to get enough.events for a fall series.

The interesting question is why Cup of China replaced Sparkassen, a German GP, when Germany didn't want the event any more. And I don't know. Perhaps China was the only country at the time that volunteered?

Thx, Doris -- I did want and do appreciate the serious answer.

Seems to me that Asia has been/will be quite decently represented among hosts of GPFs/JGPFs; Junior Worlds; and Worlds -- at least since 2010/2011 (I didn't look further back):

GPF/JGPF 2010: Beijing
GPF/JGPF 2013: Fukuoka, Japan

Junior Worlds 2011: Gangneung City, Republic of Korea
Junior Worlds 2017: Taipei (provisional)

Worlds 2014: Saitama, Japan
Worlds 2015: Shanghai, China

Also:

JGP 2010: Karuizawa, Japan
JGP 2014: Aichi, Japan

Four Continents:

2011: Taipei
2013: Osaka, Japan
2014: Taipei
2015: Seoul, Republic of Korea
2016: Taipei (provisional)
2017: Gangneung (provisional)

ISU World Development Trophy 26 Apr 2014: Manila, Philippines

dorispulaski · Feb 8, 2015

All true. But Senior B's have been the property of Europe exclusively. They have been a great vehicle for getting your skaters to get the minimum TES scores and have often featured inflated scoring.

With the addition of the feature that Challenge series scores also go onto the season's best list and are good for personal bests, not having such an event easily available is a distinct disadvantage for skaters.

Golden Spin had some truly wacko high scores this year, and the fact that there was no video made the situation even more suspect. Worse, it was the final event if the series and was a big factor who medalled. especially since the scores there were high.

visaliakid · Feb 8, 2015

I hope Skate Canada and USFS compromise and alternate those events each year.

ice coverage · Feb 8, 2015

deleted

DexterK · Feb 8, 2015

dorispulaski said:
All true. But Senior B's have been the property of Europe exclusively. They have been a great vehicle for getting your skaters to get the minimum TES scores and have often featured inflated scoring.

With the addition of the feature that Challenge series scores also go onto the season's best list and are good for personal bests, not having such an event easily available is a distinct disadvantage for skaters.

Golden Spin had some truly wacko high scores this year, and the fact that there was no video made the situation even more suspect. Worse, it was the final event if the series and was a big factor who medalled. especially since the scores there were high.

You are truly a wealth of knowledge. Thank you for your posts in this thread and in the many others. The inflated scores are very interesting to me as this was my first season with the IceNetwork Season Pass which enabled me to view the short programs at the European Championships. I was honestly surprised at the level of technical ability I recently saw- leading me to wonder how it was possible for some competitors to be at the European Championships when such skaters would not have made it to the Junior U.S. National Championships.

Honest question here:

Are there minimum scores required for Euros? Or does every country that has a skater who is age eligible get the ability to send a skater?

ice coverage · Feb 8, 2015

DexterK said:
... Are there minimum scores required for Euros? ...

Yes, minimum scores are required for Euros.

DexterK · Feb 8, 2015

Thank you golden411. I enjoy and appreciate your posts as well.

ice coverage · Feb 8, 2015

Doris or anyone, occurs to me that I have a longstanding stupid question that is fundamental to our conversation. (Many moons ago, I had asked it in the Stupid Questions thread, but nobody answered.)

What exactly are the definition of and the criteria for a non-Challenger Senior B?

In a previous thread in The Edge, we discussed the criteria for "ISU-recognized internationals."

http://goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?53737-TES-Mins-and-the-number-or-entries-and-countries

One of the thresholds is very low: Competitors from at least two Members participate.

What is the difference, if any, btwn an ISU-recognized senior international vs. a (non-Challenger) Senior B??

I know that skaters earn World Standings points at Senior Bs. Is that what sets them apart from lesser ISU-recognized internationals?

dorispulaski said:
... I hope Japan, Korea, China or Australia will put in a bid for one of the open spots!

dorispulaski said:
All true. But Senior B's have been the property of Europe exclusively. They have been a great vehicle for getting your skaters to get the minimum TES scores and have often featured inflated scoring.

With the addition of the feature that Challenge series scores also go onto the season's best list and are good for personal bests, not having such an event easily available is a distinct disadvantage for skaters.

Golden Spin had some truly wacko high scores this year, and the fact that there was no video made the situation even more suspect. Worse, it was the final event if the series and was a big factor who medalled. especially since the scores there were high.

Thx, Doris.

What remains unclear to me is whether Asian countries previously had wanted to hold Senior Bs. Are you saying that they wanted to hold them, but the ISU did not allow them to?
I'm wondering why the ISU would prevent Asia from holding Senior Bs, when the ISU has deemed Asian countries to be suitable hosts for many higher-profile events.
Are you saying that the ISU has not permitted Senior Bs in Asia for the very reason of making it harder for Asian skaters to reach the minimum TES?

IIRC, the minimum TES requirements took effect only a few years ago?

And IIRC, before the advent of the Challenger Series, scores from only a few Senior Bs counted toward the minimum TES? Not from every Euro Senior B.

NaVi · Mar 1, 2015

According to this news story that was just tweeted out, the Russian Fed will apply for Saransk to be included in the Challenger Series. I'm a complete homer for the Russian ladies, but I find the notion to be a bit preposterous . A place in the middle of Russia(that already hosts a Grand Prix event) that almost no one outside of Russia has heard of and doesn't have a history of hosting international figure skating events is not a suitable place to host a challenger series event. TBH, I think the only suitable places in Russia for hosting a challenger series event would be St Petersburg or maybe Sochi.

http://www.sports.ru/others/figure-skating/1027612199.html

Two places with Russian cultural influence that I think would be better places for a Challenger Series event would be Kazakhstan and Harbin, China.

------

I think one way to get a challenge series event in Asia is to somehow tie it in with the Japan Open.

ISU Challenger Series modifications for 2015/16

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