Writing a story about figure skating!

maybelletea · Feb 18, 2015

Buttercup said:
It is not plausible for a skater from one of the major skating countries to start ice dance so late and become successful. In real life, unlike a Cutting Edge sequel, the competition is too fierce. There are examples of skaters who switched at a relatively late age, but typically they represent smaller countries where there is considerably less competition for assignments - which allows them time to develop.

To give you some idea of the timeline for such a transition: Sara Hurtado and Adria Diaz, both former singles skaters, switched to ice dance in 2008 at the ages of 15 and 17. As Spain's first ice dance team ever, they were sent to international junior events within months. The results were not pretty at first, but they kept at it and got better. Hurtado/Diaz finished 13th in Sochi and moved up to 5th at this year's Euros. They have medalled at smaller events, but never at the GP level or higher.

As for top dance teams: in Sochi, the gold and silver medal dance teams had been together since 1997. Bronze medalists I/K had a shorter partnership, but both had a solid ice dance background. P/B who finished 4th and B/S who were fifth had been together since 2000.

What you're proposing is to give your skaters two challenges (late start, small height difference). For people not into skating, this won't even register as an issue, so it's not interesting. For skating fans, it makes your setup implausible. I understand that you are attached to both of these things, but I don't think they will serve your story well.

Almost every skater has dance training, lots of it in some cases. It would not make anyone stand out and cannot replace the skills you develop in terms of skating. What you could do is give one of your characters a background in roller skating, like Matteo Guarise, in which case I'd recommend making them pairs skaters and dropping the height difference part of it. A roller skater would not have the skating skills to be competitive in ice dance.

This is as much advice as I'm willing to give; if you don't want people to give you their opinion, do your research on Wikipedia. But to be very clear - if you want to write a novel with skating in the background, it doesn't matter what you do. If you want it to be a believable part of your story, do more research before you get into the plotting because you clearly know very little at the moment about how skating works. Karne isn't telling you not to write at all, she is telling you to do your homework before you do. Though I do not share her appreciation for the US men, karne is a knowledgeable skating fan and she and other posters in this thread have been trying to steer you in the right direction. Be grateful that people are trying to help you out.

Yeah, but that's what the point of posting on a forum like this- it's doing homework. I'm not claiming I'm super knowledgeable.

So I think what I'll do is have them both have backgrounds in ice dance- at the very least, I already know Ira will have a strong background in ice dance. The challenge might be for Noelle to catch up, having only done pairs, singles, and ballroom dancing. However, I could change that. But I think it could be plausible for them to get into elite ice dance by age 20 or so. Maybe I just need to have it so they both have backgrounds in ice dance. There still will be a challenge of Noelle catching up though, since she hadn't skated competitively in a few years at the beginning of the story (that's kind of why the story begins).

I do know at this point that they will start skating together at ages 15-16, and will have as much as a 3" height difference.

I do want people to give their opinion... I have been thanking you guys. I appreciate it. But you have to understand it's kind of hard to put yourself out there on a forum you've never been on, and then have a kind of bombardment of answers that seem kind of annoyed you're posting here in the first place. It's not the most fun experience.

maybelletea · Feb 18, 2015

So... I think I'll have both of them have a background in ice dance. I'm just not sure if the reason Noelle stopped competing was because of an injury in ice dance to her partner, or pairs- I was thinking the transition to dance might make sense because of that since it's less dangerous (to an extent) but perhaps it should be because of the injury in ice dance.

I should probably just formulate this story around ice dance more since that's my main goal for them competitively, and then figure out their singles careers, which would be rather short lived...

Buttercup · Feb 18, 2015

maybelletea said:
I do want people to give their opinion... I have been thanking you guys. I appreciate it. But you have to understand it's kind of hard to put yourself out there on a forum you've never been on, and then have a kind of bombardment of answers that seem kind of annoyed you're posting here in the first place. It's not the most fun experience.

It will be much harder to put your story out there if you hope to one day publish it. What you're getting here is advice. I'll tell you what: leave the plotting aside for a bit. Go on Youtube and watch a lot of ice dancing and pairs skating. Get an idea for what skaters of different levels can do, and where you characters would fit in at different points in your story.

If you want to get some idea about what it means to be off the ice for several years and attempt a comeback, take a look at what Lubov Iliushechkina and Dylan Moscovitch are doing. Lubov spent three years out of competitive skating because her original federation would not release her, and while she and Dylan are a very promising pair, it's going to take time. And both of them are accomplished, world class skaters.

maybelletea · Feb 18, 2015

Buttercup said:
It will be much harder to put your story out there if you hope to one day publish it. What you're getting here is advice. I'll tell you what: leave the plotting aside for a bit. Go on Youtube and watch a lot of ice dancing and pairs skating. Get an idea for what skaters of different levels can do, and where you characters would fit in at different points in your story.

If you want to get some idea about what it means to be off the ice for several years and attempt a comeback, take a look at what Lubov Iliushechkina and Dylan Moscovitch are doing. Lubov spent three years out of competitive skating because her original federation would not release her, and while she and Dylan are a very promising pair, it's going to take time. And both of them are accomplished, world class skaters.

It's a personal project- I'm not sure where the main end in sight would be, honestly. It could end up being a webcomic one day... So that's "published" in a way.

Okay, I really appreciate the names!

KKonas · Mar 15, 2015

maybelletea said:
It actually is rude to tell someone they "shouldn't" be writing something they don't know enough about. That IS what research is for. I literally wouldn't be here otherwise. I'm not looking for a huge backlash because I don't have enough figured out... I came here because I know I don't have enough figured out. It's not like I'm publishing anything and calling it true to how skating works. I love figure skating and want my story to be true to it.

Anyway, I do have a lot at the moment in terms of personality, story, etc. This is for me figuring out the technical aspects of the story, rather than the character-driven plot points. I linked the gallery once before: http://maybelletea.deviantart.com/gallery/45819531/Figure-Skating-Story

But that's partially the point- their success with their lack of height difference makes them unusual, and in a few years when they're in elite skating, they'd be close to a 4" difference. I want that to be a small point in the story. It seems like they wouldn't work as well together because of that, and the coach would probably think about pairing them with other people, but they end up being very good partners. Also, because they're fairly young, the coach I think is assuming Ira may grow a bit, and Noelle has stopped growing.

I think it can be realistic with the right amount of planning. I am okay with it being unlikely.

Oh gosh I would say more but I have to run to class. Thanks for the names, that really helps in terms of research.

If you think "doing research" is going on skating boards to ask questions about skating (pairs, ice dance, etc.) and looking up past skaters on wikipedia, then you still won't have a real grasp of what it takes to do what you are talking about. I suggest instead that you spend a lot of time in a skating rink - talking to coaches, choreographers, skaters and actually watching them skate.

Mathman · Mar 15, 2015

But then again, you don't have to be an expert to write an engaging story. If there are technical mistakes that make figure skating mavens smile indulgently, so what?

The important thing is. get those words down on paper. Write, write, write. Maybe one day you will write the great American novel. :yes:

KKonas · Mar 16, 2015

Mathman said:
But then again, you don't have to be an expert to write an engaging story. If there are technical mistakes that make figure skating mavens smile indulgently, so what? The important thing is. get those words down on paper. Write, write, write. Maybe one day you will write the great American novel. :yes:

The first thing you learn in a beginning writing class is to write about something you know or experienced.

Mathman · Mar 17, 2015

KKonas said:
The first thing you learn in a beginning writing class is to write about something you know or experienced.

So true. I wrote a story once about vampires. But my friends told me that my so-called vampires actually acted more like real-life werewolves.

Seriously, though, I think this story is more about personal relationships and character development, not so much about verisimilitude of the setting?

gkelly · Mar 17, 2015

golden411 said:
I still don't know whether it would be a realistic scenario for an intact partnership to switch from pairs to dance (or vice versa) -- e.g., two skaters competing together as a pair partnership; then both skaters switching to ice dance -- and the same two skaters competing together as a dance partnership.

I've never heard of a real-life partnership doing so. I raised this question earlier in your thread, but no one has commented further.

Paul and Isabelle Duchesnay (1991 world ice dance champions, 1992 Olympic silver medalists) skated together as a pair until they were about 14 and 16 and then switched to ice dance. It took them more than 10 years as ice dancers, and a switch from Canada to France which was less competitive at the time, before they reached meal contention though. And even so ice dance purists would point out that their skating skills were not at the level of the other medal competitors -- their biggest advantage their choreography by Christopher Dean. Not sure that alone could carry a team to the top in the IJS era.

maybelletea said:
Maybe I'll start out with a 2 inch difference at ages 16, and the difference grows to about 3.5 inches, making them about Tai and Randy difference wise.

But I do want it to be plausible that a coach would have them keep going with pairs despite the small height difference. I'm just worried about the injury side of things.

If they start together at 16, with a small height difference and one partner new to the discipline, I would suggest that they start competing at least one year at novice level, which is the typical level for boys of that age, and then one or more years as juniors.

He will grow bigger and stronger in his late teens and 20s. That's when they can expect to have success at senior level.

I don't know how many years you were expecting your story to cover, but be aware that the majority of dance teams tend to have their biggest success in their mid-20s or later, and for pair teams sometimes the girls are teenagers but rarely the guys -- large age differences are common, in part because it allows for larger size differences at lower levels when the skaters are developing their pair skills. But if a team is well matched in other ways, or in a location where they don't have many options about who to partner with, then a smaller size difference is possible but would be a disadvantage for them to struggle with. And if the partners are close in age, 16 is about the age one would expect the least size difference, since the girl would be mostly finished growing and the boy would have several years left when he would be expected to get bigger. Although not necessarily taller -- which does break up some pair teams and end some pair guys' hopes of a senior pair career.

If you want to give them that disadvantage and make it an interesting challenge for them to work against, then learn as much as you can about the skills they would need for either pairs or ice dance, whichever you choose, and suggest some ways in which they address the challenge.

A rapid rise to the top is not realistic with all the obstacles to success you're building into their career. But if you're looking at a longer arc, with the internationally successful senior part of their career 5-10 years after they get together at 16, then it would be more believable.

NanaPat · Mar 17, 2015

Drew Wolfe went from singles to dance to pairs. He hasn't been at pairs long enough to tell how it is going to pan out.

But note that he is starting pairs by partnering with an experienced pairs skater. Usually when someone successfully changes disciplines at an advanced age, they are paired with someone experienced in the new discipline. Also, established skaters sometimes make rapid progress when they start skating with someone who is much better / more experienced than they are.

ice coverage · Mar 17, 2015

gkelly said:
Paul and Isabelle Duchesnay (1991 world ice dance champions, 1992 Olympic silver medalists) skated together as a pair until they were about 14 and 16 and then switched to ice dance. It took them more than 10 years as ice dancers, and a switch from Canada to France which was less competitive at the time, before they reached meal contention though. And even so ice dance purists would point out that their skating skills were not at the level of the other medal competitors -- their biggest advantage their choreography by Christopher Dean. Not sure that alone could carry a team to the top in the IJS era. ...

Thx for always sharing your knowledge, gkelly

. Appreciate the answer to my question.

peg · Mar 17, 2015

Mathman said:
So true. I wrote a story once about vampires. But my friends told me that my so-called vampires actually acted more like real-life werewolves.

HA! Vampires were the first thing I thought of when I read KKonas's comment. It's good that you had experienced friend to give you valuable feedback

Writing a story about figure skating!

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