2015 Junior Worlds Ladies Short Program March 4

Leonardo · Mar 5, 2015

Sam-Skwantch said:
Wakaba has only received one "e" this season in the SP and one in the FS. Zhenia has received far more than Wakaba in fact. 4 full on "e" calls on the JGP this season and quite a few ! like in the video at GPF which I provided.I still feel that in that case she was on an unclear edge and ! is fair but it is really close and I wouldn't argue a tech panels decision to call it "e". Sorry but Wakaba's lip is just as punishable as anyone's flutz. Especially considering how easy it is to see. Be fair please.

I watched many videos and replays, including the one that you provided and I still don't agree with you. That doesn't make me (or you) unfair, we simply have different points of view. And sorry, Wakaba got 2 "e" marks for her flips in Dresden and one in the GPF and many !, whereas Evgenia also got some "e" marks, 3 in total I think, but didn't get any deduction on her solo lutz in the GPF SP, for example.

Flaya · Mar 5, 2015

Here are the results in comparison to this season's best score at an ISU event.

What surprises you the most about this list?

3 191.96 Serafima SAKHANOVICH RUS (1) - 2
6 190.89 Evgenia MEDVEDEVA RUS (2) - 1
12 178.09 Wakaba HIGUCHI JPN (3) - 3
14 175.99 Maria SOTSKOVA RUS (4) - 10
19 172.34 Yuka NAGAI JPN (5) - 6
24 169.41 Karen CHEN USA(6) - 12
32 164.79 Elizabet TURZYNBAEVA KAZ (7) - 7
35 159.55 Nicole RAJICOVA SVK (8) - 5
39 158.60 Da Bin CHOI KOR (9) - 9
50 152.18 Ivett TOTH HUN (10) - 28
58 148.63 Anastasia GALUSTYAN ARM (11) - 11
62 148.13 Lutricia BOCK GER (12) - 17
69 146.16 Kaori SAKAMOTO JPN (13) - 4
70 145.45 Diana NIKITINA LAT (14) - 13
73 144.16 Jenni SAARINEN FIN (15) - 8
78 142.16 Kailani CRAINE AUS (16) - 18
86 136.55 Kim DEGUISE LEVEILLEE CAN (17) - 29
89 135.65 Selena ZHAO CAN (18) - 26
105 125.38 Deimante KIZALAITE LTU (19) - 16
106 124.79 Shuran YU SIN (20) - 23
107 124.74 Elizaveta UKOLOVA CZE (21) - 20
111 122.64 Netta SCHREIBER ISR (22) - 33
123 117.71 Anita ÖSTLUND SWE (23) - 32
124 117.30 Danielle HARRISON GBR (24) - 27
125 117.17 Guia Maria TAGLIAPIETRA ITA (25) - 14
129 114.69 Pernille SORENSEN DEN (26) - 39
130 114.17 Lara ROTH AUT (27) - 31
136 111.76 Julia SAUTER ROU (28) - 25
138 111.35 Michaela DU TOIT RSA (29) - 37
142 110.01 Alina BELETSKAYA UKR (30) - 36
143 109.03 Lea SERNA FRA (31) - 21
144 108.85 Matilde GIANOCCA SUI (32) - 42
149 108.47 Maisy Hiu Ching MA HKG (33) - 41
154 106.87 Thita LAMSAM THA (34) - 43
168 97.43 Elif ERDEM TUR (35) - 35
176 94.62 Maeva GALLARDA ROSSELL ESP (36) - 38
188 90.03 Juni Marie BENJAMINSEN NOR (37) - 22
194 85.76 Kristina SHKULETA-GROMOVA EST (38) - 34
197 84.57 Niki WORIES NED (39) - 15
201 82.80 Daria BATURA BLR (40) - 40
TYLER PIERCE USA N/A - 19
Li XIANGNING CHN N/A - 24
Eun Su YOON KOR N/A - 30

Sam-Skwantch · Mar 5, 2015

Flaya said:
Here are the results in comparison to this season's best score at an ISU event.

What surprises you the most about this list?

That it doesn't include Proklova?

I bet Wakaba gets her season best up to around 184 after JWC where the scores usually trend up a bit.

salchowx4 · Mar 5, 2015

ordinary person said:
And the russians are highly overscored as usual, could it be even more tedious and dreadful?
One more reason why this sport has so many empty seats in the crowds apart from all the obscenity people are turning a blind eye to.

Not sure I'd say they were highly overscored (this is no Sochi scandal kind of situation), but the scores were generous, yes. Medvedeva'a first place is obviously correct though despite her awful flutz.

Sam-Skwantch · Mar 5, 2015

salchowx4 said:
Not sure I'd say they were highly overscored (this is no Sochi scandal kind of situation), but the scores were generous, yes. Medvedeva'a first place is obviously correct though despite her awful flutz.

I completely agree with this. What I find the most surprising is that I'm starting to be in favor of 6.0 system again simply because people are using the scores largely for the purpose of discrediting other skaters. I think it's clear that Evgenia was the best and then Sima and Wakaba in any order ya like with those two being within a point or two of each other. Right now they are less than 2pts apart after making similar errors and people are acting like some scandal is under way or something. :drama:

shine · Mar 5, 2015

Leonardo said:
You missed my point, I actually don't care about the results of this competition. I think the top two probably deserved their placements, the point is: they are not penalized for their mistakes as much as they should. Wakaba got a "e" many times, and lost a lot of points, including in her jump combination in the SP. That's why I didn't mention her. And I don't agree that Wakaba's edge mistake is worse than the russian's flutzes, on the contrary, wakaba's edge is more flat and close to an inside edge (with a flip technique) than the russian's flutzes with a clear flip technique.

Agreed. And to be honest, I think more benefit of the doubt can be given to lippers as opposed to flutzers. This is because IMO a true lutz just cannot be faked - (ie. a flutzer is always a flutzer, unless you relearn the technique from the groud up), whereas a skater who has a tendency to lip, can indeed sometimes take off from the inside edge, the flat, or a slight outside edge, depending on their condition. Like I have said before, the counter rotation of the lutz is unintuitive and cannot be faked. If you are not used to that momentum on the take off, you just won't have it. As opposed to the takeoff edge of the flip, which is in the natural direction of the spin of the jump, and is easier to gain control over.

Sandpiper · Mar 5, 2015

I severely dislike the loop entry and a part of me wants it banned.

But let's be fair: if we give Evgenia "e," we'd have to give Wakaba "e" as well (her flip basically looks like a lutz... though it still looks prettier than a loop-entry lutz/flutz).

ordinary person · Mar 6, 2015

Anybody who thinks the Russians are great must have missed Evgenia's boring Tano jumps which one of them was quite as sloppy as Wakaba's.The only thing she has more is her spins and that's why i would put her slightly above Wakaba. Serafima messed up her first combo jump as well and it was even worse than Wakaba's meaning she should have been below her. If it wasn't junior worlds or any other important championships i'd never even waste a single breath to watch this sleazy competition.

ps: I'm not sure why but these god awfully tedious tano jumps should receive much less points.

samkrut@mail.ru · Mar 6, 2015

The young Russians are not great - too early for that. They are just better than the rest of the junior pack, plain and simple.

Bumdid · Mar 6, 2015

Evgenia's skating as a nice, lyrical skating about them. But I would've deduct 1 point for choreoraphy in both of her sp and fs imo. Her jumps are basically backloaded and therefore, the choreography doesn't really create any sense of beginning, middle and an end for me. Also, she and Serafima's tanos kinda detracts from the program after the third time they did it. If they want a high GOE, then find some other ways to do it.

Sam-Skwantch · Mar 6, 2015

Bumdid said:
Evgenia's skating as a nice, lyrical skating about them. But I would've deduct 1 point for choreoraphy in both of her sp and fs imo. Her jumps are basically backloaded and therefore, the choreography doesn't really create any sense of beginning, middle and an end for me. Also, she and Serafima's tanos kinda detracts from the program after the third time they did it. If they want a high GOE, then find some other ways to do it.

They said in the presser afterward that the Tano's feel more natural for them and went as far as to make an uprward motion with their arms to show that the tano gives them more height and better control. I wouldn't mind if they only allowed one tano bonus per program but if it helps them to jump then I'm all for letting them do as many as they like. I think they look great :love:

I'm not very vested in the points they get or don't get for doing them. Meh.

As for the choreo...I don't feel the same as you and guess I would say...alright. But if your going to subtract one point for a less choreographed second half of the program then go ahead but shouldnt we give a bonus point for having extra (good) choreo in the beginning half. :laugh:

peg · Mar 7, 2015

Sam-Skwantch said:
TBut if your going to subtract one point for a less choreographed second half of the program then go ahead but shouldnt we give a bonus point for having extra (good) choreo in the beginning half.

For me, it' not so much that the second half is poorly choreographed compared to the second half. t's that the program is unbalanced, just like a program with front-loaded jumps is unbalanced.

2015 Junior Worlds Ladies Short Program March 4

Leonardo

Flaya

Match Penalty

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

salchowx4

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

shine

Sandpiper

ordinary person

[email protected]

Medalist

Bumdid

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

peg

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