I really hope she's able to improve her jumps. In that area, she's not as strong as Kirsten was. I'd hate to see this pair held back because of that
Illyushechkina/Moscovitch vs. Moore-Towers/Marinaro
- Thread starter NotSoSweetie
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- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
I am sure deep down Kristen right now feels at a loss. Her season is over and I am sure she is reading some of this or hearing through the skating grape vine. She's not stupid. She'll never admit her error but she was looking at the big picture. But this new Mtm team does nothing - no excitement, no chemistry, no original moves, no special quality, no great speed and Marinario just doesn't present her as well and has problems being the male - throws and lifts. to the person who suggests he got into a fight at some bar or whatever - the first thing that went through my mind was I bet he lost because while he really isn't that small he isn't very strong and with poor technique for an experienced pairs skater.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
In this rare case, I can't agree with you, Mrs. P -- at least the part about M-T's statement supposedly being more declarative than Jason's.
I don't claim to know every word that M-T has said, but a quote from the original Skate Canada announcement of the end of her partnership with Moscovitch:
“I feel that there is an opportunity for me to keep skating for at least one, maybe two, more Olympic cycles, so I want to pursue those options. My plan is to look for the partner who will share in that dream.”
http://www.skatecanada.ca/2014/04/c...owers-and-moscovitch-end-skating-partnership/
http://www.skatecanada.ca/2014/04/c...owers-and-moscovitch-end-skating-partnership/
How is that more declarative than what Jason has said?
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I was speaking to why some may have that perception, not that I personally have that opinion. As I said I don't really have an opinion one way or another.
Part of that perception, perhaps, is that there's no decision that Jason has made so far that is clearly tied to this desire, though I'd argue that his team's attitude toward getting the quad is driven, in part, by a desire for a longer career, I.e staying in it for two cycles.
But that is not as visible to fans as deciding to spilt from your long-time partner, I guess.
Part of that perception, perhaps, is that there's no decision that Jason has made so far that is clearly tied to this desire, though I'd argue that his team's attitude toward getting the quad is driven, in part, by a desire for a longer career, I.e staying in it for two cycles.
But that is not as visible to fans as deciding to spilt from your long-time partner, I guess.
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- Joined
- Mar 28, 2014
Jason can say he wants to go for 2 more cycles without needing to dump an incredibly talented and strong partner who is "too old".
Kirsten certainly has the right to do whatever she wants, but it's not a surprise why she's getting flack for saying that and not Jason.
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- Mar 27, 2004
And also, if she and Marinaro had shown great chemistry, and she had picked up technically right where she and Dylan left off, she probably wouldn't get as much flack, either. It's not wholly realistic or fair, but it's reality.
Unless the person being dumped is universally disliked, which is obviously not the case with Dylan, there will always be a backlash against the dumper.
Unless the person being dumped is universally disliked, which is obviously not the case with Dylan, there will always be a backlash against the dumper.
Selfish seems too strong a term for having goals, and wanting to achieve them. Should Kirsten have taken the defeatist route and live the rest of her life with regret? Judging by the twitter "inspiration" posts I have read from skaters, they are fighters (regardless of the odds). Otherwise we would only be discussing them in a "whatever happened to" thread, or not at all.
Cycle by Cycle is best for short term goals, Single skaters who are not dependent on another person, and Dance/Pair couples earlier in their career when they have plenty of time.
For a Dance/Pair couple, they need to look further down the road as they approach the final two cycles. Otherwise, they could find themselves on a dead end street with little time remaining to backtrack. Kirsten is in her final two cycles, since she will be over 30 going through a 3rd. Dylan was in his final cycle, and found himself in a similar situation which he may have left Kirsten if she had stayed. Fortunately Dylan was lucky to find Lubov. As we see with Kirsten, it does not always happen as easily.
Although Kirsten likely has set herself long term goals which span beyond this cycle, it would be human nature to prefer results sooner than later. It would also be human nature to compare their progress against a recent former partner. Which must be frustrating considering all the positive attention and support Lubov & Dylan are receiving. With the criticism Kirsten has been getting instead, she must be under additional pressure to show results sooner (if only to prove everyone wrong). While Meagan likes to talk about a performance after skating, you can now see Kirsten thinking. Hopefully the pressure does not eventually erode her joy of skating. I would like to see both teams succeed. Especially with Meagan & Eric likely in their final cycle (pushing hard to achieve their goals while they can).
ETA: I am reminded of the 2011/2012 Canadian Nationals where Kirsten had a really bad skate, and they first lost the title to Meagan & Eric. Despite being unhappy, Kirsten was still able to crack a joke for the TV audience while sitting in the K&C ... "I still love skating".
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- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
"Too old" are your words, not Kirsten's. Therefore NO, she absolutely does not deserve flak for words that others are putting into her mouth.
Everyone seems to have forgotten that at the time of the original announcement, Moscovitch looked ahead for himself for only one season. Not one quad. Only the 2014-2015 season. And he made a pointed mention of life after skating.
“My future includes embracing new opportunities within the sport that I love, finding a new partner and competing in the 2014-2015 season, and expanding my horizons for life after skating.“
http://www.skatecanada.ca/2014/04/c...owers-and-moscovitch-end-skating-partnership/
http://www.skatecanada.ca/2014/04/c...owers-and-moscovitch-end-skating-partnership/
So M-T and Moscovitch clearly were thinking about the future in very different ways. Which is completely understandable, given that they are two separate individuals.
The fact that they had different feelings was not her fault. Was not his fault either.
It was no one's fault. I'm sick and tired of people unfairly blaming her.
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- Joined
- Dec 21, 2011
This is absolutely untrue. He was willing to commit to another quad with Kirsten, and then when she dumped him and he was stating his plans, he did say what you quote, but that was after Kirsten dumped him, not before. In multiple interviews, he has stated he was not only 'willing' to commit to another quad with her, but in fact was absolutely committed to another quad. That changing when he wasn't even sure he'd find a partner at all or how they'd mesh is no mystery.
I had written a long post last night about the double standard with Jason you talked about and my phone crapped out and didn't post it, but the bottom line is I don't follow men, so don't know about Jason's comments one way or another, but the double standard you think I personally might have doesn't exist in my case. While like I also said I think it is everyone's absolute right to make the decisions they want and I don't buy into the Kirsten's decision was selfish argument, anyone who says/acts like they are sure they are going 2 more quads gets a 'bless their heart' from my corner. I certainly hope they are able to, but no one can know 8 years ahead. Further, I also do agree with Mrs P- even if Kirsten's words were similar to Jason's, her actions made a very definite statement that she was more or less SURE she was going 8 more years, and she wanted to go the whole 8 years with one partner. One other reason I do think this is objectively different in pairs though is even if Kirsten and Michael both shared the goal to go 2 quads at the beginning, he too could change his mind and she'd have no control over that. I also wonder how she was helped by this if she has to switch partners again, which frankly if Marinaro doesn't improve I hope she does, because she does not deserve to be stuck with a weak partner.
With all that said, I do wish her well, and hope she will come back strong from this season, either with Marinaro or with someone else. I wish him well too, but quite honestly I am not invested in whether he comes back strong/continues or not since I just don't enjoy watching him skate at this juncture.
As always though, this is all just my take.
My personal theory is that Kirsten had a wonderful time at the Sochi Olympics--both on the ice and in the atmosphere in general--and maybe to her, more Olympics >>> everything else. Maybe it was rash, who knows... We'll see what the future holds.
Interesting people mention Jason. I actually had a conversation with Mrs. P on a similar subject: I suggested that some fans were going, "quad, quad, quad" because they wanted Jason to start winning things sooner, instead of leaving his hopes to a far-flung future that was uncertain (and artificially delaying his peak, so that he actually ends up with less hardware then he otherwise could have). Kirsten gets a lot more flak in general though, because she dumped someone (and Jason didn't/didn't have anyone to dump).
Interesting people mention Jason. I actually had a conversation with Mrs. P on a similar subject: I suggested that some fans were going, "quad, quad, quad" because they wanted Jason to start winning things sooner, instead of leaving his hopes to a far-flung future that was uncertain (and artificially delaying his peak, so that he actually ends up with less hardware then he otherwise could have). Kirsten gets a lot more flak in general though, because she dumped someone (and Jason didn't/didn't have anyone to dump).
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Yep, SP, you're right, which is why I noted that point in an earlier post (that one could argue his approach with the quad reflects a desire to have longevity in his career.). But yes, again, the fact his decision to do so didn't have much consequence on anyone other than himself (and his team I guess) is probably why he isn't questioned on it.
Precisely. He was very committed to doing another Olympics. But after the split, there was a lot of uncertainty for him with respect to skating.
I've met the original MT/M after Sochi and maybe a week ish before it came out that they broke up and you're right. Every time someone asked about the Olympics Kirsten's eyes would light up and she gushed a lot about it. She sounded really really really excited for Pyeongchang 2018. I always thought that the Olympics meant more to her than anything else which is why she broke up with Dylan.
Certainly the Olympics played a part in many retirements and splits. However I think Kirsten's goal must extend beyond just getting there. Her chances for another Olympics was better with Dylan, than Michael (unless Dylan had given Kirsten reason to believe he may be planning to retire earlier).
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In the end, Dylan turned out OK. I personally think he and Lubov are actually a a better match, though they still have a lot of work to do. On the whole, I do think their styles mesh a whole lot better. And seeing Lubov so happy and joyful after two years in pair partner limbo is just so nice to see.
And as of now, for the sake of this thread topic, Lubov and Dylan are 3-0 with Kirsten and Michael. It will be interesting to see how Lubov and Dylan will compare with Julianne and Charlie at Worlds.
And as of now, for the sake of this thread topic, Lubov and Dylan are 3-0 with Kirsten and Michael. It will be interesting to see how Lubov and Dylan will compare with Julianne and Charlie at Worlds.
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- Joined
- Dec 21, 2011
Yes this is actually what really concerns me for her- assuming she stays with Marinaro, (and barring injuries, theirs or anyone elses) her chances of getting to the next Olys look uncertain even if she and Marinaro improve. D/R have one spot locked up tight assuming they stay healthy and keep competing. That leaves 2 other spaces and currently at least 3 teams competing for them- S/B, I/M, and MTM2. Of those three teams currently MTM2 are the weakest, and S/B have the most potential (probably) to improve and slide solidly into spot number 2. It's hard to imagine MTM2 improving so much at this time that they would be a lock for spot 3 over I/M. So from where I'm siting Kirsten is in a bit of a conundrum, at least based on what we know now. Of course hindsight is 20/20 though.
I remember watching an interview with Dylan, and he said that at one point during the Olympics, he and Kirsten looked at each other and said "We're doing this again." They both loved the Olympics and wanted to go back. That's partly why the split came as a shock.
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2015
I am obsessed with Luba and Dylan. I think they have great promise and they have great chemistry. I think their partnership is actually more equal than MTM2- Dylan is more the public face for now but Luba is definitely a powerhouse in her own right and I can see her not putting up with Dylan pushing her around. I think they respect each other a lot given their whole journey (it was discussed in depth in their TSL interview) and that sort of struggle together in the beginning made them trust each other a lot. They had to figure out everything about each other and work on merging Russian and Canadian training techniques and styles...It says a lot about Dylan that he was willing to risk it all on the Russian federation releasing her, I feel like that hasn't happened in a while (if ever? not sure).
Luba's background is very interesting too. She doesn't seem to like to talk about her time with Nodari but she seems just so happy and her and Dylan seem hungry to improve. If you watch their SP practice skate from 4CC compared to MTM2, Luba and Dylan are really enjoying themselves (you can see it in the brief moments in the MTM2 vid too). Of course, now it's become apparent that they are rising quickly it remains to be seem how they will handle the pressure now that it is on them.
I think Kirsten is struggling because well, that SP music choice wasn't great but also it seemed like everything was coming together for her quickly and then she got to competitions and realized that things weren't going to be the same. I think her expectation far exceeded the reality of breaking up and finding a new partner and the pressure got to her. It's clear that she and Michael aren't really as gelled as a pair yet, while I see Dylan and Luba as a pair on the ice in Kirsten's programs it seems as if it's two singles skaters who are relatively in sync. It's all just a bit cold and even a little bit tense, especially when Michael was struggling to lift Kirsten. It's early, but I honestly don't see Kirsten making another Olympics with Michael. They don't have a spark that really draws you in.
Michael also needs to GET IN SHAPE. He had issues with twists and lifts with his last partner. If you compare MTM2 and Seguin/Bilodeau's National skates, Julianne's frame is a bit bigger than Kirsten's, and S/B had much less speed going into their lifts but Charlie had no problem getting Julianne up and down (quite well actually). But I think it must seem very embarrassing when a lift goes wrong because the man can't get the woman up . I'm also not sure of proper throw technique but he seems very sloppy to me. He doesn't seem to hold onto Kirsten tightly as he throws her and I feel like it's only because she's so experienced that she is able to land them.
I will add that I like Kirsten and I think she's a good pairs skater and she's so cute. I don't mind that she switched partners with the hopes of making two more Olympics...I doubt splitting was a decision she made lightly. But I think she made a mistake in choosing Michael and I will continue to think that until Michael is able to prove otherwise. I think she could have done better because she did try out with a few people but she was so quick in choosing him and I think that was a mistake
Luba's background is very interesting too. She doesn't seem to like to talk about her time with Nodari but she seems just so happy and her and Dylan seem hungry to improve. If you watch their SP practice skate from 4CC compared to MTM2, Luba and Dylan are really enjoying themselves (you can see it in the brief moments in the MTM2 vid too). Of course, now it's become apparent that they are rising quickly it remains to be seem how they will handle the pressure now that it is on them.
I think Kirsten is struggling because well, that SP music choice wasn't great but also it seemed like everything was coming together for her quickly and then she got to competitions and realized that things weren't going to be the same. I think her expectation far exceeded the reality of breaking up and finding a new partner and the pressure got to her. It's clear that she and Michael aren't really as gelled as a pair yet, while I see Dylan and Luba as a pair on the ice in Kirsten's programs it seems as if it's two singles skaters who are relatively in sync. It's all just a bit cold and even a little bit tense, especially when Michael was struggling to lift Kirsten. It's early, but I honestly don't see Kirsten making another Olympics with Michael. They don't have a spark that really draws you in.
Michael also needs to GET IN SHAPE. He had issues with twists and lifts with his last partner. If you compare MTM2 and Seguin/Bilodeau's National skates, Julianne's frame is a bit bigger than Kirsten's, and S/B had much less speed going into their lifts but Charlie had no problem getting Julianne up and down (quite well actually). But I think it must seem very embarrassing when a lift goes wrong because the man can't get the woman up . I'm also not sure of proper throw technique but he seems very sloppy to me. He doesn't seem to hold onto Kirsten tightly as he throws her and I feel like it's only because she's so experienced that she is able to land them.
I will add that I like Kirsten and I think she's a good pairs skater and she's so cute. I don't mind that she switched partners with the hopes of making two more Olympics...I doubt splitting was a decision she made lightly. But I think she made a mistake in choosing Michael and I will continue to think that until Michael is able to prove otherwise. I think she could have done better because she did try out with a few people but she was so quick in choosing him and I think that was a mistake
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