Is it legal for a coach to charge a student for future lessons?

mydarlindaughter · Feb 23, 2015

My daughter is planning to switch coaches. Her current coach has a policy that if you quit during a contract you are required to pay for all future lessons not skated. Is it legal for her to charge us for these lessons? We have never signed any document agreeing to this policy. Thanks!

MalAssada · Feb 23, 2015

If you have not signed anything, he cannot sue you, buy you may find him being insistent. Have you paid him already?

mydarlindaughter · Feb 23, 2015

No. I haven't paid the coach yet. The spring contract doesn't start for almost two weeks but I am pretty sure I will be asked to pay for the 12 weeks of lessons since the coach knows my daughter was planning on skating them. Obviously I will pay for the lessons she has already skated but paying for future lessons after she has quit seems absurd.

TontoK · Feb 23, 2015

It would make sense to me that you would be required to pay for lessons agreed upon under the current contract.

It does not make sense that you would be required to pay for lessons beyond the current contract.

Of course, a lot might depend on specific clauses within the current contract itself.

It is also worth noting that a verbal agreement might also be construed as a contract. A contract does not have to be written... typically it is on lengthy or complicated arrangements, so that all parties are documented as having agreed to the terms. Obviously, verbal contracts are harder to enforce or contest if there is a dispute, but that does not mean they are not morally and legally binding.

A simple example of a verbal contract might be something like this: You agree to pay a neighborhood boy $30 to rake your leaves. If he completes his end of the bargain, you are obligated to pay for the service, even in the absence of a written document.

loopy · Feb 23, 2015

before you stress over "pretty sure", I would make sure that it is requested. There could be a lot of mis-communication happening from guessing what will be asked. Give your two week notice before the two week happens, in the letter let the coach know you will cover the existing contract and pay in full by _____.

"The spring contract doesn't start for almost two weeks but I am pretty sure I will be asked to pay for the 12 weeks of lessons since the coach knows my daughter was planning on skating them."

Tavi... · Feb 23, 2015

I guess I would ask:

How long has she been with the coach?
How do you pay the coach - directly? Through the rink or club? How long has the current payment arrangement been in place?
What makes you think you will have to pay for lessons you won't use? What have you been told and/or have you been given a flyer or handout?

Doctors and other professionals will often charge you for a missed lesson or one canceled at the last moment. In many schools, you pay tuition up front for the entire semester, and if you drop a class in the first week you may get 100% of it back, but if you drop it after 6 weeks you may get nothing.

So really, the answer to your question is "it depends" on the details of your situation. And an entirely separate question is whether or not the coach would hound you into small claims court if you do have a verbal agreement.

SkateToronto · Feb 25, 2015

bellflower said:
If you have not signed anything, he cannot sue you, buy you may find him being insistent. Have you paid him already?

This is completely incorrect.

MalAssada · Feb 25, 2015

Then I apologise. This is how it seems to work here.

mydarlindaughter · Feb 25, 2015

As of today, I have received a notice that I have a certified letter from my daughters coach at the post office. I will let you all know what the coach wants me to be responsible for when I have opened it. SkateToronto- Do you think I can be sued if I refuse to pay? To Papagena- My daughter has been with her coach for 4 1/2 years. We pay her directly, not through her club. I believe she will charge me because in her yearly paperwork she sends to her skaters it states that if a skater quits during a contract or when an upcoming contract has been agreed upon, the student is responsible to pay for all unskated lessons in that contract.

karne · Feb 25, 2015

So you DID sign something committing to those lessons.

Or did you?

This is a totally ridiculous scenario. But at the same time, if you had already committed to the spring contract, knowing that you planned on switching coaches, and said coach has then turned away other students to make your daughter's schedule, I can understand her getting annoyed.

Tavi... · Feb 25, 2015

mydarlindaughter said:
As of today, I have received a notice that I have a certified letter from my daughters coach at the post office. I will let you all know what the coach wants me to be responsible for when I have opened it. SkateToronto- Do you think I can be sued if I refuse to pay? To Papagena- My daughter has been with her coach for 4 1/2 years. We pay her directly, not through her club. I believe she will charge me because in her yearly paperwork she sends to her skaters it states that if a skater quits during a contract or when an upcoming contract has been agreed upon, the student is responsible to pay for all unskated lessons in that contract.

Whether or not you can be sued depends on the specific facts of your situation, including where you live. If I were in your position, I would probably ask a lawyer for advice.

mydarlindaughter · Feb 26, 2015

Karne- Her coach sent an email around three weeks ago stating that she wanted all of her students to keep the same schedule that they had for winter contract. If we wanted to make changes, we were to let her know. Then her coach sent another email with my daughters lesson times for spring. So I guess we were saying we agreed to the lessons though nothing was signed or dated with my signature.

My daughter also didn't plan on switching coaches at this point. It has been a deteriorating relationship for about a year now that my daughter has been trying to deal with. My daughter used to skate more often and she was treated very well by this coach. When she started high school and had a lot more homework and also started a job, she cut back on her skating quite a bit. Her coach was not happy about this and hasn't been supporting my daughter with her skating goals. The feedback this coach gives my daughter is now almost all negative. An incident that happened last week where this coach humiliated my daughter in front of several people caused my daughter to decide that she can no longer tolerate this treatment from her.

Papagena- I am at a point now that I will probably just pay. When my daughter chooses a new coach and the new coach needs to contact her former coach to make sure all bills have been payed, I don't want there to be any issues. Even if it's not right, I don't want my daughter to have to go without a coach if her former coach is going to fight it and drag out this process.

Tavi... · Feb 26, 2015

mydarlindaughter said:
Karne- Her coach sent an email around three weeks ago stating that she wanted all of her students to keep the same schedule that they had for winter contract. If we wanted to make changes, we were to let her know. Then her coach sent another email with my daughters lesson times for spring. So I guess we were saying we agreed to the lessons though nothing was signed or dated with my signature.

My daughter also didn't plan on switching coaches at this point. It has been a deteriorating relationship for about a year now that my daughter has been trying to deal with. My daughter used to skate more often and she was treated very well by this coach. When she started high school and had a lot more homework and also started a job, she cut back on her skating quite a bit. Her coach was not happy about this and hasn't been supporting my daughter with her skating goals. The feedback this coach gives my daughter is now almost all negative. An incident that happened last week where this coach humiliated my daughter in front of several people caused my daughter to decide that she can no longer tolerate this treatment from her.

Papagena- I am at a point now that I will probably just pay. When my daughter chooses a new coach and the new coach needs to contact her former coach to make sure all bills have been payed, I don't want there to be any issues. Even if it's not right, I don't want my daughter to have to go without a coach if her former coach is going to fight it and drag out this process.

I understand, and I'm glad if you are comfortable with your decision. Hiring a lawyer to fight it could be expensive and stressful, and since the skating community is a small one, I can see why you would choose not to take that path. Best of luck to you and your daughter!

NanaPat · Feb 26, 2015

Your daughter's current coach may very well ask why you are leaving.

I would tell her pretty much what you said in your explanation to us - that your daughter feel that things haven't been the same since she cut back on her skating time and that she needs more encouragement from her coach. If the coach becomes defensive, don't argue with him/her, but just say "that's how she feels, and her feelings are what is important to me". You don't want to make thing excessively unpleasant, but you do have a right to your point of view.

Of course, she may not say a word, and she may have changed because she's just not interested in coaching your daughter any more.

Good luck to you and your daughter and I hope she enjoys her new coach.

About the money: you may be expected to pay because you agreed to the lessons, or you may not be because they haven't started yet. When you tell the coach you're leaving he/she should tell you what they expect in the money department. If they don't, you can ask. You may be pleasantly surprised by the answer. But I wouldn't argue about it, whatever it is.

peg · Feb 27, 2015

NanaPat said:
About the money: you may be expected to pay because you agreed to the lessons, or you may not be because they haven't started yet. When you tell the coach you're leaving he/she should tell you what they expect in the money department. If they don't, you can ask. You may be pleasantly surprised by the answer. But I wouldn't argue about it, whatever it is.

If they don't say anything about paying for the unused lessons, I wouldn't ask. Why put ideas in their head if they weren't planning on charging you? I would tell the coach about your daughter's decision ASAP though. They may be able to find someone else to coach during at least some of that time, and the sooner they know, the sooner they can try to fill their schedule. It's also possible they only ask you to pay for the time they weren't able to fill with someone else.

SkateToronto · Feb 27, 2015

mydarlindaughter said:
As of today, I have received a notice that I have a certified letter from my daughters coach at the post office. I will let you all know what the coach wants me to be responsible for when I have opened it. SkateToronto- Do you think I can be sued if I refuse to pay? To Papagena- My daughter has been with her coach for 4 1/2 years. We pay her directly, not through her club. I believe she will charge me because in her yearly paperwork she sends to her skaters it states that if a skater quits during a contract or when an upcoming contract has been agreed upon, the student is responsible to pay for all unskated lessons in that contract.

I don't really want to give you advice - I got my law degree but it was in Ontario. The best is to get legal advice in your area.

How much is the coach looking for? I ask because it can be very easy to end up incurring more in legal fees than the amount the dispute is over.

If your daughter is not taking any more lessons from this coach, then you should tell the coach in writing ASAP.

As a future suggestion, even if there is no written contract between you and the coach, make sure to confirm in writing your understanding of what has been agreed to.

anyanka · Feb 28, 2015

Generally it would depend on the sale of goods / performance contract in the jurisdiction where you live. Some local laws would allow the penalty to occur if you signed a contract and broke it off early, and be entitled to collect a penalty. Another way to think about it is this way: you buy a set of lessons or a fitness training package, or sign up for an academic course. You decide early on you don't like it or have no use for it (or whatever reason). If you look in the fine print, you'll likely see some verbiage dictating that the longer you take the course of instruction, the heavier the penalty to break it. That *may* be how they might interpret this.

leafygreens · Mar 30, 2015

This sounds like a terrible situation and I would find a new coach. I wouldn't stay with a coach who requires a contract, if you can find a coach who doesn't require a contract.

Is it legal for a coach to charge a student for future lessons?

mydarlindaughter

MalAssada

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TontoK

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Tavi...

SkateToronto

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