Gracie Gold's 3A

LRK · Apr 14, 2015

drivingmissdaisy said:
You could have said this very same thing about Liza last April, yet she ended up landing two 3A's in competition this season.

If Liza had been trying 3A last season - and this season before she had shown her consistency - I'm sure people would have been critical of her as well.

ETA- On the issue of Gracie, though, I haven't commented on it yet; but in short, I'm not sure if this is the wisest decision for her - or at least at this time - but I do wish her the best of luck and success.

Sandpiper · Apr 15, 2015

sorenkay said:
3-3-3s are not going to happen without the rule limiting triples to be loosened... which I would like to see but also see little chance of that happening.

And someone with a half loop combo and a 3S-2T-2T should absolutely be able to challenge someone doing 1 3A if the former has great spins and the latter has bad spins(and I have two people on each side of this divide in mind).

Why do we need to see every skater in the World train 1Lo combos? (Because that's what this rule would do.)

3-3-3s will be attempted if the combo itself is rewarded adequately (e.g. 10% bonus, on top of the BV of the individual jumps). We don't need complex changes to the Zayak rule to accomplish that. By the same token, if you think spins are undervalued, you can raise their value (I personally would like to see spin GOE being worth more). Why do we need to encourage pointless 3S-2T-2Ts?

Btw, there's no need to come up with weird rules to prevent Liza from winning. There's a long line of skaters, from Yamaguchi to Kwan to Kim, who won against more ambitious competitors by going clean while the 3As/3Lz-3Los didn't hit off. That's something Gracie could focus on--skating clean more often.

kiara_bleu · Apr 15, 2015

Sandpiper said:
Why do we need to see every skater in the World train 1Lo combos? (Because that's what this rule would do.)

3-3-3s will be attempted if the combo itself is rewarded adequately (e.g. 10% bonus, on top of the BV of the individual jumps). We don't need complex changes to the Zayak rule to accomplish that. By the same token, if you think spins are undervalued, you can raise their value (I personally would like to see spin GOE being worth more). Why do we need to encourage pointless 3S-2T-2Ts?

Btw, there's no need to come up with weird rules to prevent Liza from winning. There's a long line of skaters, from Yamaguchi to Kwan to Kim, who won against more ambitious competitors by going clean while the 3As/3Lz-3Los didn't hit off. That's something Gracie could focus on--skating clean more often.

I couldn't agree more especially this comment. I don't really understand why all of a sudden there is this whole trend of talking (and it is just all talk right now except for Liza) about getting a triple axel, especially coming from skaters who are not known for even showing any consistency with other jumps or their skating in general. At least with Liza, she learned and landed triple axels pre-puberty and has a renowned jump coach. But even Ashley now is publicly talking about trying triple axels when she struggled with 3-3 combo's and underrotations her whole career.

And I don't think Liza is unbeatable even with a triple axel. First of all it will be interesting to see how consistent she will be next season with the added difficulty as well as the pressure of being the top lady. I see Gracie as having the capability of being competitive with Liza even without the triple axel considering her skating skills and quality of her jumps. The most crucial thing missing from her skating right now is confidence and strong mentality.

Meoima · Apr 15, 2015

Sandpiper said:
3-3-3s will be attempted if the combo itself is rewarded adequately (e.g. 10% bonus, on top of the BV of the individual jumps). We don't need complex changes to the Zayak rule to accomplish that. By the same token, if you think spins are undervalued, you can raise their value (I personally would like to see spin GOE being worth more). Why do we need to encourage pointless 3S-2T-2Ts?

I think spin GOE should just be the way as it is, or else we might see terrible jumper but good spinner win over skaters who actually jump.

Actually had Gracie been more consistent, I might not be as skeptical as I am now. She is a natural jumper and a hard worker she can land that 4S or 3A in practice. The problem is her mentality often shuts down in big competition and she need to work on that first.

Sandpiper · Apr 15, 2015

kiara_bleu said:
I couldn't agree more especially this comment. I don't really understand why all of a sudden there is this whole trend of talking (and it is just all talk right now except for Liza) about getting a triple axel, especially coming from skaters who are not known for even showing any consistency with other jumps or their skating in general. At least with Liza, she learned and landed triple axels pre-puberty and has a renowned jump coach. But even Ashley now is publicly talking about trying triple axels when she struggled with 3-3 combo's and underrotations her whole career.

And I don't think Liza is unbeatable even with a triple axel. First of all it will be interesting to see how consistent she will be next season with the added difficulty as well as the pressure of being the top lady. I see Gracie as having the capability of being competitive with Liza even without the triple axel considering her skating skills and quality of her jumps. The most crucial thing missing from her skating right now is confidence and strong mentality.

Liza's scary right now because she doesn't have the weaknesses/circumstances that plagued 3A-jumpers in the past (figures/inconsistency for Midori, conditioning/personal issues for Tonya, flutz/UR/pre-2010 COP for Mao).

Her competitors can try to match her tech content, or they could try to skate clean and consistent. Only time will tell which strategy pays off--it just depends on whether Liza maintains her consistency as she raises her technical content. But the truth is, if you can't do a 3A, you can't do a 3A. Wanting--or even needing--a 3A does not mean you'll get one. (But if Ashley and Gracie want to train one, more power to them. I wish them luck and hope they're careful).

Meoima said:
I think spin GOE should just be the way as it is, or else we might see terrible jumper but good spinner win over skaters who actually jump.

Of course spins shouldn't be worth more than jumps overall because jumps are far riskier. However, I'd be agreeable to an increase in spin GOE, making its max GOE more comparable to jump GOE. But this is contingent on judges being equally generous/strict on both sets of GOEs (which they aren't right now--straight +3 on spins is easier to achieve than the same on jumps. If both sets of GOE are comparable, they need to stop doing that. :scowl

NaVi · Apr 15, 2015

Meoima said:
I think spin GOE should just be the way as it is, or else we might see terrible jumper but good spinner win over skaters who actually jump.

What is the point of even doing spinning if you can't get an advantage with them? Why require even doing them?

Meoima · Apr 15, 2015

sorenkay said:
What is the point of even doing spinning if you can't get an advantage with them? Why require even doing them?

They get points for it. I just don't think they should raise the GOE for spins. It's fine as it is right now. It's just the way they reward not beautiful spins almost as much as people with excellent spins I don't think is fair.

drivingmissdaisy · Apr 15, 2015

LRK said:
If Liza had been trying 3A last season - and this season before she had shown her consistency - I'm sure people would have been critical of her as well.

But we are talking about Gracie preparing for next season. She didn't try the 3A this season, like Liza didn't attempt it last year. It's possible that Gracie comes out next season consistent with the jumps and if she has the 3A or 4S ready she can go for it.

kwanatic · Apr 15, 2015

drivingmissdaisy said:
But we are talking about Gracie preparing for next season. She didn't try the 3A this season, like Liza didn't attempt it last year. It's possible that Gracie comes out next season consistent with the jumps and if she has the 3A or 4S ready she can go for it.

I agree, it could happen...but it seems a bit wishful IMO. Nothing about Gracie's competitive record over the past 3 years suggests that she will magically gain Liza/Elena-like competitive focus and steely nerves in one summer. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Gracie will show up next year with that focus and determination and finally turn into the skater everybody expects her to be. However, based on her track record, it seems improbable...though not impossible.

solani · Apr 15, 2015

@Sandpiper
I fully agree. They can try to match Elizaveta's tech content, and they have to if they want to win against her. Mao had (has?) her 3A, but her tech content was lower than Yuna's most of the time. So Yuna had no reason to really worry about her as long as she skated clean. And right now Elizaveta is in that class of her own, because she's doing the 3A in the short ... so if Elizaveta's 3A is really consistent Gracie has to do up her tech. 3A would be best, because she could also do it in the short.
I think Gracie will get herself together. She was injured this season and Ashley really put pressure on her at U.S. nationals. I don't worry too much about her, I just wish for two inspired programs next season. :popcorn:

LRK · Apr 15, 2015

drivingmissdaisy said:
But we are talking about Gracie preparing for next season. She didn't try the 3A this season, like Liza didn't attempt it last year. It's possible that Gracie comes out next season consistent with the jumps and if she has the 3A or 4S ready she can go for it.

Yes, but I also said "before she had shown her consistency" - if there had been news in the off season last year that Liza was seriously working on the 3A (at the time when everyone had written her off) - do you not think such a move on her part had been criticised? And there had been nothing peculiar in that.

With Gracie, my understanding is that she is consistent with the jumps she has now - in practice. Isn't that her greatest trouble? - translating her success in practice to competition? That said, again, I wish Gracie success - and I do hope she proves my doubts (and those of others) wrong. I'm just saying that the fact that people do have doubts, is scarcely odd.

Sandpiper · Apr 15, 2015

drivingmissdaisy said:
But we are talking about Gracie preparing for next season. She didn't try the 3A this season, like Liza didn't attempt it last year. It's possible that Gracie comes out next season consistent with the jumps and if she has the 3A or 4S ready she can go for it.

My memory's fuzzy, but wasn't there an article, some time in the off season, where Liza said something like, "I'd like to try 3A and 4T when I'm healthy"? Not sure what the response to that was... I suspect most people were skeptical, there there was skepticism all around regarding Liza: comments that they couldn't see how she'd reach a top again, since she'd never beat Yulia and couldn't even outscore Yulia in jump GOE. Comments that it's ridiculous for her to try 3T-3T, since she stands no chance without 3Lz-3T. Not saying I blame those people, since hindsight is 20/20. Just saying, skepticism isn't reserved for Gracie.

Miss Ice · Apr 15, 2015

R.D. said:
Frankly the US women have been mostly talk, little substance. Gold can't even execute what she plans now :disapp: - she's nowhere close to being ready for a 3A, let alone 4S. Having said that, if it's something she's just going to do on the side, much ado about nothing.

She just may not have "the chops". A "Czisny Lite" if you will. You either have it or you don't. Maybe she'll get "lucky" at some makeshift event some distant point in the future, but until then, this is what we got.

Hmm, it seemed like she was pretty tired by the second half of the 4CC LP ? Just singling those jumps in the combo like :shrug:

It seems she needs a different LP jump layout and also BETTER MUSIC. Seriously, I think even the most artistic and graceful skater would not be able to skate to something as dreary as that (kind of like Moaning Myrtle from Harry Potter singing....).

Florentina · Apr 15, 2015

People around herekeep saying that Gracie should solve her problem (which is her lack of translating her practice performance to competition) first. But seriously it doesn't seem like she has any problems executing her content, she just can't translate it to competition ice. I think if you want success but it's not happening you need to add something or leave something out in any case you need to change something in the equation. Maybe training harder jumps is that for her. I think spending the whole summer focusing on just 'I have to translate what I do in practice to competition' builds even more pressure.

Jammers · Apr 15, 2015

Gracie also needs to be in much better physical shape at the start of next season then she was at the start of this season. She looked like she let herself go last summer and wasn't prepared for skating this year.

silverlake22 · Apr 16, 2015

Jammers said:
Gracie also needs to be in much better physical shape at the start of next season then she was at the start of this season. She looked like she let herself go last summer and wasn't prepared for skating this year.

The Olympic season was long and the amount of tours and shows she did in the offseason was greater than usual, so her being exhausted, out of shape, and not competition ready in September last season was somewhat expected. She was hardly the only one who faired poorly at the start of the season, the same was true of Ashley and especially Julia, among others. This summer, I think things should be more normal so I bet she'll be in better shape and more competition ready for the start of the season this time around.

Alchamei · Apr 16, 2015

Miss Ice said:
Hmm, it seemed like she was pretty tired by the second half of the 4CC LP ? Just singling those jumps in the combo like .

She had no choise. She hac jumped two 2T earlier. Had she done third 2T, she would havw Zayaked. Probably didn't want to try 2Lo-2Lo.

silverlake22 · Apr 16, 2015

She could have done 3s-1t-2lo, but she doesn't usually do 2lo in her 3 jump combination at all so she probably wasn't comfortable throwing it in on the fly. Next season she should try doing a 3-1lo-3s combo as her 3 jump and then she won't need to worry about zayaking her double toes (it would increase her BV too). At a minimum, she should move the 2a-3t to the second half of the program. Doing two big combos in a row doesn't seem like the smartest idea for Gracie, if she makes a mistake, she usually needs a couple jumps to get back into her groove. It would be smarter to do 2 easier triples (or a solo 2a) after the 3lz-3t combo and then do the rest of her jumps and combos in the 2nd half. Gracie seems to get less nervous and jump better as her programs go on, usually when she tanks her FS, the big mistakes happen early in the program.

bekalc · Apr 18, 2015

Personally I don't think Gracie's problem is she cannot do her jumps. She seems to have genuinely good technique. I suspect the jumps all go well in practice. I think her issues are mental.

Perhaps challenging Gracie would give her more confidence. I.e I can land a triple axel in practice, no reason I cannot do this 3lutz/3toe. Or at the very least the current content less psychologically difficult. Sometimes athletes need to be challenged in order to avoid burn out. I have no issue with Gracie wanting to learn a triple axel.

However if Liza had said last year at this time, I'm going to land a triple axel in competition, I would have found it way more likely than Gracie or Ashley landing one this ear. Mainly because I saw a clip of Liza doing a three axel at 13. Its not the same as doing it in a harness. One thing I will give Mishin credit for is that he did not allow the 3 axel to be Tukt's only technical weapon or put all of her technical arsenal in one jump. She has stellar technique. Its the biggest difference between her and Mao. She proved this year she could win without out one.

If the 3axel was easy everyone would do it. There's a reason only a few women have done it. I'm skeptical of them learning a jump at this point. A 3axel in a harness is not close to having one IMB.

R.D. · Apr 18, 2015

It's all coulda woulda shoulda at this point. It just won't benefit her much until she learns to deliver under pressure. Doesn't matter whether she's hitting 3A, 4s in practice - in crunch time she will fold - if not in one segment, then the other.

And in Wagner's case, frankly that's laughable.

Gracie Gold's 3A

LRK

Sandpiper

kiara_bleu

Meoima

Match Penalty

Sandpiper

NaVi

Meoima

Match Penalty

drivingmissdaisy

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!

solani

LRK

Sandpiper

Miss Ice

Let the sky fall~

Florentina

Jammers

silverlake22

Alchamei

silverlake22

bekalc

R.D.

Similar threads

Connect with us