2A/half loop/3F for women?

shiroKJ · Mar 9, 2015

gkelly said:
Well, there's no evidence that the ISU has any interest in introducing such a bonus. But if they were...

I think a straight percentage of base value would probably be fine. E.g., 1.1 or 1.2 times the base value of the last jump in the combo. (Before the second half bonus is applied to the whole combination, if applicable) We'd have to run the numbers for various combinations and see if the sizes of the point increases seem appropriate. Maybe get some elite skaters and coaches who work with all levels to offer input about relative difficulty.

I know its not an actual ISU implementation, I just wanted to see what you guys think would be a good set up regarding the bonuses :yes: It does sound intriguing though.

Globetrotter · Mar 9, 2015

Alchamei said:
That is easy. Just add a 3T after the second 2A and instead of solo 3T you would do a 3Lo. So it would look like this:

3Lz-2T
3Lo
3S
2A-1Lo-3F
3Lz
2A-3T
3F

But this will again expose the skater to 2 x 3F. Since Gold is a lipper whose least favourite jump is the flip, that solo 3F will do her in with an e call. It may actually be easier to limit the 3F to one in both SP+LP. The 3F after the 1R combo for some reason forces her to stay on the inside edge which seems to be working. Since the 3Lz3T is actually her $$ jump, my proposal will be:
3Lz-3T
2A-1R-3F
3R
3R-2T (can aim for 2R if she is confident)
3Lz
3S
2A

The 3R is more likely to get good GOE than an effy 3F. The only catch is that Gold's 2A is not her steadiest jump, so there is still some risk

Globetrotter · Mar 9, 2015

shiroKJ said:
I know its not an actual ISU implementation, I just wanted to see what you guys think would be a good set up regarding the bonuses :yes: It does sound intriguing though.

Wow lovely proposal. I had posted elsewhere that combos should be rewarded with bonus just for the sheer difficulty that is not congruent with the present "add the BV" approach! However, I am also wary that things can get some complex in the scoring that nobody will ever be able to comprehend the scoring - especially since current scoring is already complicated. Thus, I do like your proposal, however, I will propose to limit it the the second or third jump which is a triple preceeded either by a 2A or a triple or quad jump. I will keep the 2T/2R combos the same as current. However, a fully rotated 3T or 3R will be rewarded with 10% and 25% bonus on top of their BV. As an example, a 3Lz3T will thus be 6.0 + 4.1 x 1.1 = 10.51; a 3F3R will be 5.3 + 5.1 x 1.25 = 11.68. I am all for rewarding the much more difficult 3R as the second jump combos.

Of course the 25% bonus is debatable. I simply just assume a bonus of 10% for a 3T, then since a 3R is ~24% higher in BV than a 3T, I just proportionately tag the bonus as an extra 25% for a 3R combo.

Skater Boy · Mar 9, 2015

invisiblespiral said:
So... for Gold, would 3lz+3t, 3lo, 2a+3t, 2a+3f, 3lz, 3s.... work?

aren't you missing a pass?

ntl · Mar 10, 2015

StitchMonkey said:
They do look fun to do. That is part of what I like about them.

I still want to see a lutz 1/2 loop flip combo. I think it could be a really fun way to show up edge control, (if done well) or at least the idea of attempting edge control.

Alex Johnson did this in his 2013 LP.

FSGMT · Mar 10, 2015

Sandpiper said:
I think, for women, the way combinations are handled in the SP is okay. Since you only have three jumping passes, there is a significant reward to doing harder combinations. However, harder combinations should be worth more in the LP than they currently are worth. I'm wary of going too overboard on this though, since I'd like to see women challenge the quads and triple axels as well.

For men, I'd like to see more incentive to do 4T-3T rather than 3Lz-3T in the SP. Right now, the latter is worth more points if you backload (no one backloads 4-3... no one sane, anyway). In the LP, I'd like to see more incentive to put the most difficult jumps in the hardest combinations: 4T-3T(-2Lo), 3A-3T, 3A-1/2Lo-3S(or 3F), ect. Less 4-2 and 3-3 layouts.

Alchamei · Mar 10, 2015

Globetrotter said:
But this will again expose the skater to 2 x 3F. Since Gold is a lipper whose least favourite jump is the flip, that solo 3F will do her in with an e call. It may actually be easier to limit the 3F to one in both SP+LP. The 3F after the 1R combo for some reason forces her to stay on the inside edge which seems to be working. Since the 3Lz3T is actually her $$ jump, my proposal will be:
3Lz-3T
2A-1R-3F
3R
3R-2T (can aim for 2R if she is confident)
3Lz
3S
2A

The 3R is more likely to get good GOE than an effy 3F. The only catch is that Gold's 2A is not her steadiest jump, so there is still some risk

Read closely! I wasn't doing this layout for Gracie. I did this layout as a answer to question, how to go for lutz and flip twice and doing 3Lz-2T and 2A-3T at the same time.

Alchamei · Mar 10, 2015

Skater Boy said:
aren't you missing a pass?

Technically yes, but all triples are already used. One would have to do 2Lz then.

yyyskate · Mar 10, 2015

Globetrotter said:
But this will again expose the skater to 2 x 3F. Since Gold is a lipper whose least favourite jump is the flip, that solo 3F will do her in with an e call. It may actually be easier to limit the 3F to one in both SP+LP. The 3F after the 1R combo for some reason forces her to stay on the inside edge which seems to be working. Since the 3Lz3T is actually her $$ jump, my proposal will be:
3Lz-3T
2A-1R-3F
3R
3R-2T (can aim for 2R if she is confident)
3Lz
3S
2A

The 3R is more likely to get good GOE than an effy 3F. The only catch is that Gold's 2A is not her steadiest jump, so there is still some risk

repeat lutz and loop, this could work or gracie, loop jump started to become a very stable jump for Gracie, and Lori is a genius in loop jump choreo/transition.

2A/half loop/3F for women?

shiroKJ

Back to the forest you go.

Globetrotter

Globetrotter

Skater Boy

ntl

FSGMT

Alchamei

Alchamei

yyyskate

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