Jason Brown does not plan quad for Worlds | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Jason Brown does not plan quad for Worlds

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
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Do you mean men from all countries or only U.S. men?? :think:

p.s. General comment:

Is it me ... or are Josh/Jason/Adam stirring up far more discussion than the U.S. ladies? (Not to mention the other U.S. disciplines.) :think:

Not complaining. The men are the most interesting to me. Then the dancers and ladies. But I'm surprised that the men seem to be dominating the threads.

Yes. :agree: I am pleasantly surprised. :cheer::cheer:
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
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His quad at Nationaly looked rotated to me. Maybe a little underrated, but << ?? no.
Judges don't like him, i don't get it--besides Abbott he really has it all.

You have to be joking, right? He landed FORWARD. It was visibly landed forward. You can't land forward and get full credit.

The quad is one thing. But there's only one of the US men who can put it in combination at the moment, too.
 

silverlake22

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Nov 12, 2009
I think Adam does the 4lz because his 4s and 4t attempts are usually < or << anyways so if he's going to get hit with URs trying any quad, he might as well go for the one with the highest base value. In that regard I think his going for the 4lz actually makes sense. He was trying 4s a couple seasons back and that was not any more rotated than his 4lutzes usually are.
 

StitchMonkey

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Jul 31, 2014
I think Adam does the 4lz because his 4s and 4t attempts are usually < or << anyways so if he's going to get hit with URs trying any quad, he might as well go for the one with the highest base value. In that regard I think his going for the 4lz actually makes sense. He was trying 4s a couple seasons back and that was not any more rotated than his 4lutzes usually are.

And in that outlook it does make sense. A <4Z is worth more than a <4T. I think he should skip it in the SP but absolutely go for it.
 

silverlake22

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I think Max is probably pretty happy for his friends that they get to go - he himself acknowledged that the standard at US Nationals was insanely high. What he SHOULD be frustrated about - angry, even - is the fact that Kovtun is getting these massive scores because his fed will back him, while the USFSA seem to have no interest whatsoever in Max's scores, even though Max is a better skater! Even Max's Nationals inflation was not in line with everyone else's.

While I agree the Russian Fed supports Kovtun, I don't think they are that crazy about him honestly. I'm not a huge fan of his skating or anything, but he really did deserve to go to the Olympics last season and was left at home so that an obviously injured Plushenko could compete in the team event and then withdraw, the result being that no Russian man could compete at the individual event at the Olympics. Given that the Olympics were in Russia and that last season Kovtun was clearly the number 1 guy, I think that was a bit harsh. I'm not denying that he got preferential treatment during the 2012-2013 season or that his winning the National title this season wasn't the most convincing victory, but I feel that if the Russian Fed really loved him that much, they would have sent him to the Olympics last season when he was undoubtedly the best healthy males skater in Russia at the time.
 

karne

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While I agree the Russian Fed supports Kovtun, I don't think they are that crazy about him honestly. I'm not a huge fan of his skating or anything, but he really did deserve to go to the Olympics last season and was left at home so that an obviously injured Plushenko could compete in the team event and then withdraw, the result being that no Russian man could compete at the individual event at the Olympics. Given that the Olympics were in Russia and that last season Kovtun was clearly the number 1 guy, I think that was a bit harsh. I'm not denying that he got preferential treatment during the 2012-2013 season or that his winning the National title this season wasn't the most convincing victory, but I feel that if the Russian Fed really loved him that much, they would have sent him to the Olympics last season when he was undoubtedly the best healthy males skater in Russia at the time.

Um, are you forgetting that Kovtun had his backside handed to him on a platter at Euros by Voronov and Menshov? If anyone was stiffed of an Olympic berth, it was Voronov.

Plushenko took the spot in good faith, truly believing that he was going to be capable of doing both events. When he realised he could not, he told the federation so, with enough time for a replacement to be called in. They lied to him and told him there could be no replacement, because they knew they would get more bums on seats with Plushenko than they would with Voronov or Kovtun.

If Kovtun wanted an Olympic spot, maybe he should have done his job at Worlds the year before - the Worlds where, just quietly, Max was seventh, though not clean himself.
 

silverlake22

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Um, are you forgetting that Kovtun had his backside handed to him on a platter at Euros by Voronov and Menshov? If anyone was stiffed of an Olympic berth, it was Voronov.

Plushenko took the spot in good faith, truly believing that he was going to be capable of doing both events. When he realised he could not, he told the federation so, with enough time for a replacement to be called in. They lied to him and told him there could be no replacement, because they knew they would get more bums on seats with Plushenko than they would with Voronov or Kovtun.

If Kovtun wanted an Olympic spot, maybe he should have done his job at Worlds the year before - the Worlds where, just quietly, Max was seventh, though not clean himself.

Eh. Kovtun probably shouldn't have been sent to Worlds in 2013 in the first place, he was a junior skater, but no one else probably would have gotten a 2nd spot anyways. Regardless, Euros was just one competition, Kovtun won Nationals convincingly last year (this year not so much) and had a better GP season than both Voronov and Menshov last season, 2 silvers and a good showing at the GPF. I would have been fine with Voronov going to the Olympics, too, my point was more that one of them should have gotten to go to the Olympics last year and the fact that the Russian Fed chose not to send either man in as a replacement probably means that they aren't all THAT keen about Kovtun or Voronov. If they loved Kovtun that much, he would have been at the Olympics. Period.
 

karne

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Eh. Kovtun probably shouldn't have been sent to Worlds in 2013 in the first place, he was a junior skater, but no one else probably would have gotten a 2nd spot anyways. Regardless, Euros was just one competition, Kovtun won Nationals convincingly last year (this year not so much) and had a better GP season than both Voronov and Menshov last season, 2 silvers and a good showing at the GPF. I would have been fine with Voronov going to the Olympics, too, my point was more that one of them should have gotten to go to the Olympics last year and the fact that the Russian Fed chose not to send either man in as a replacement probably means that they aren't all THAT keen about Kovtun or Voronov. If they loved Kovtun that much, he would have been at the Olympics. Period.

You are entirely missing the point, which is that Max is a much better skater, but Kovtun gets higher scores.
 

WeakAnkles

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All I can say is: See yesterday's NCAA Tournament games for reason why you can have all the hardest skill in the world, but when you don't come to the plate when it counts...watch out.

Jason, technically, is like Georgia State and University of Alabama-Birmingham. Nobody predicted either of those teams to beat much more superior teams. His competition is like Iowa State and Baylor.

GSU and UAB are going to the second round on Saturday. Iowa State and Baylor are going home.

Jason has a competitive mindset and can stay focus on the game. That is valuable in a high-pressure competition like Worlds, quad or not.

Of course, on the other hand, the Cinderellas don't always succeed either, LOL and there are superior teams that are SO good that no amount of grit and determination can make up for that.

However, IMO, there isn't any skater in the World field that is the equivalent of a team like Duke, Arizona, University of Kentucky or Villanova. Yuzuru and Javi are probably the closest, but they have been prone to poor performances.

The current men's figure skating field is full of Baylors and Iowa States. Teams that have the skill, but can be prone to silly mistakes. Actually Jason is more like UCLA -- a team who everyone thought was crazy to be in this tournament field and proved everyone wrong by totally kicking butt in the first round.

And thus end my endless college basketball analogies.

THIS IS THE POLICE. STEP AWAY FROM THE MARCH MADNESS. COME INTO THE LIGHT~

(of figure skating of course!)


:biggrin:
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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THIS IS THE POLICE. STEP AWAY FROM THE MARCH MADNESS. COME INTO THE LIGHT~

(of figure skating of course!)


:biggrin:

No. :biggrin:

Actually I've decided that Jason is skating's version of my favorite shock of wheat, aka. Wichita State. A mid-major team you can't help but root for because they just show just grit and determination. :)
 

sses1

On the Ice
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Oct 5, 2014
You are entirely missing the point, which is that Max is a much better skater, but Kovtun gets higher scores.

Kovtun mostly gets political backing from Russia because of his age and the fact that his coach is Tarasova. But once someone younger and better comes along he will lose their favor, and this person is suppose to be Pitkeev. On the other hand, USFSA puts most of their political backing in Brown which means Max gets no love and the international judges have gotten that message.
 

Flaya

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Feb 13, 2014
Jason was already 9th at the Olympics with a less-than-perfect FS and that was with Chan, Machida and Takahashi there.

I think he can place higher. Again, I don't think any of the men are invincible.

But there were not any Russians in there.

Even if only one Russian is ahead of him, I believe Hanyu, Ten, Fernandez, Han Yan, an American skater and one more Japanese skater will be ahead of him...so that already puts him at 8th. And this is without taking into account Voronov, Brezina, a third Japanese skater, a third US skater, Canadians, etc.
 

Skater Boy

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Feb 24, 2012
Good for him! I hate quads (big ugly jump that does nothing for most programs) and would rather watch him without one than any of the reliable quadsters out there.

Fair enough. But Jason's skating (edge, footwork, blade control) is not that of Lambiel, buttle or chan. And in a world of quads a tiring ponytail look is only going to hold you up so long.
 

Skater Boy

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Feb 24, 2012
I was all ready to say "the article was wrong", then I double-checked wiki... Can't believe there's no difference of minimum placement whether you have 2 or 3 skaters trying to grab the coveted three-spots. In fact the rule is more relaxed toward countries with 3 representatives, where 1 skater is allowed the cushion to completely falter as long as the other 2 "placed decently". Oy vey!

Oh people do not panic. With three men capable of top 5 placements and even medals US should be fine. It would be hard for all the stars to line up to allow Ten, Hanyu, fernadez, Kovtun, Voronov, Yan and Mura to beat all three americans. The odds are someone will mess up. But if the stars did line up and not in the Star Spangled banner way think about what a fiasco could happen Hanyu, ten, fernandez, Kovtun, voronov, Yan, Mura, Kozuka, czech, Liebers, Ge and maybe a surprising Nguyen - can you immagine the outrage if UsA didn't have one men in the top ten???? It won't happen. USA at worst will have two men go to 2016 worlds
 

Mafke

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Mar 22, 2004
I would love to have the journalists who have the words "quad" fly out of their mouths the minute they have access to Jason agree with you. He doesn't need the quad now for his timetable, he made that clear on the first question at his interview, and he will develop his programs on his timetable and not someone else's.

My memory is rusty, has that ever happened? I mean a quadless skater getting the top ten territory and then adding a quad? It seems that those with a competition quad get it early or not at all.

But again, I hate quads, so I might be biased or underinformed.
 

andromache

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Mar 23, 2014
Fair enough. But Jason's skating (edge, footwork, blade control) is not that of Lambiel, buttle or chan. And in a world of quads a tiring ponytail look is only going to hold you up so long.

Sure, because it's only Jason's ponytail that gets him the marks that he gets now. :rolleye:

I won't argue that Jason doesn't have the skating skills of a Lambiel, Buttle, or Chan, but he definitely maximizes all of the points in between the jumps with his spins, footwork, and transitions, and he is also excellent at performing for the audience in a way that few of the skaters currently in the field can do. The argument is also possible that Jason's performance style is more extroverted than Lambiel's, Buttle's, or Chan's, which makes it more appealing to some viewers. I have appreciation for both introverted and extroverted artistry, but it can be difficult to compare both styles.

If you don't care for the skaters without quads, I'm sure there's better justification than their hairstyles.
 

sabinfire

Doing the needful
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Nov 30, 2014
I hate quads (big ugly jump that does nothing for most programs) [...] But again, I hate quads, so I might be biased or underinformed.

Why would someone 'hate' quads? If referring to sloppy jumps or falls, I could understand that... but if a quad is landed well, what is there to hate?

Rotations and GoE's are the name of the game in competitions. Even in this current system, rotations will get points, even on a fall.

What is it about that one extra rotation that turns a beautiful jump into something "ugly"?

When/if Jason adds the quad to his program next season, will his element be referred to as a "big ugly jump"? :confused:
 

gmyers

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Mar 6, 2010
My memory is rusty, has that ever happened? I mean a quadless skater getting the top ten territory and then adding a quad? It seems that those with a competition quad get it early or not at all.

But again, I hate quads, so I might be biased or underinformed.

Chan!
 

peg

Medalist
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Jan 17, 2014
My memory is rusty, has that ever happened? I mean a quadless skater getting the top ten territory and then adding a quad? It seems that those with a competition quad get it early or not at all.

But again, I hate quads, so I might be biased or underinformed.

A quad-less Patrick Chan was 9th in his first Worlds and then won two consecutive silver medals still quad-less in his next two appearances (and was 5th at the 2010 Olympics). The following season he added quads and beat his closest rival by over 20 points and set world records in the SP, FS, and total score.

Given the changes to the value of the quad since the 2010, it's possible that he wouldn't have won those two silvers under current scoring, but e definitely would have been top 10, and probably top 5 anyway. For Patrick, the skating skills were developed early, and then the jumps came more slowly, partly because his first coach made him spend a large amount of time practicing those basics. Many skaters do the opposite - work on the jumps and then add work to improve skating skills. It's possible to get to the same end goal - big jumps as well as good skating and presentation - via two different roads.
 

dorispulaski

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It is worth remembering that Jason is currently the best male spinner in the world.
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?41239-Jason-Brown&p=1118385&viewfull=1#post1118385

Li'Kitsu said:
Since some of you like to read statistics too... I can give you some numbers to something we all already know: Jason is the best spinner of the senior men :cheer:
He hit level 4 on 95,8% of his spins, never getting lower than level 3. Besides Kozuka, nobody else managed to get at least level 3 all the time. The next highest succession rate is also 80%! That's quite a big margin... In case that's a surprise for anyone else: that 80% belongs to Voronov. Not the guy I would have thought of first!
His average in +GOE is 0,93 - when the highest you could have scored here is 1,5. That's really high - it means on average, he gets +2's! He also has a pretty big cushion over 2nd place again: next highest average is 0,775 Care to take a guess who that belongs to?

Also, I went through most of the competitions this season (GPs+GPF, 4CC, Euros, Golden Spin, Warsaw Cup, Volvo Cup, SC Autumn Classic, US Classic, Finlandia, Nebelhorn, Ondrej Nepala) and looked for the highest rated spin per type.
Jason is the only guy to get a perfect 1,5: for his CCSp in his Nebelhorn LP. In case anyone wants to be a party pooper and say 'oh, but that's just a senior B, GOE are inflated anyway!' - okay, have the second highest rated spin of the season: Jasons CCSp in his 4CC LP with a nice 1,43 (meaning, two judges wanted to be party poopers too and spoiled the fun with their +2's). He also has the highest scoring CCSp with 1,07 and is tied for highest FCSp with Adam Rippon with a 1. Those last GOE by the way are from his 4CC SP. And people say the quad attempt might have made the judges "like" Jason less - haha :biggrin:

Being best at something not only yields points. While perhaps not as impressive as Chan's pre-quad edging, it does add into Jason's PCS as well, since the spins are well choreographed and executed to the music, rather than struggled with, as can be the case with some of the other guys.

Jason spends significant time every day on spins, exactly because his jumps are not the very best.
 
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