The best jumps of the season
- Thread starter MixedFruit
- Start date
and Radionova's 3F 
off:
(statistician here)
A fun study would be to normalize the PCS over a few competitions to put it on comparable scale.
Something like: Yuna got 32.72, but that was 20% higher (random number) than the average given on 2009 worlds, while Liza got 33.53 but those are pretty much the average value (arbitrary number again jus as an example) for worlds 2015 so not really outstanding.
Actually kind of wonder if other people would be interested in results or thats just me.
I'll admit to being geeky enough to appreciate such an analysis. It would give more context to the discussion. It would also more clearly show why the world records under this system are not meaningful since the raw numbers assume that judging is roughly comparable. A 9.5 now perhaps was a 8.5 in 2010 . . .
Well his score was only 1 point higher than Yuzu who had 2 falls(one on an < jump) so I really don't think he had a chance of gold with a perfect Hanyu(or Javi for the matter)
That's true, Hanyu and Fernandez can allow themselves more mistakes than Denis and come up with similar (maybe slightly higher) numbers. Maybe because of the third quad in Javi's case and the 3A combinations for Yuzuru. I like them both but really, how long has it been since Yuzuru or Javier have had a clean competition? Meaning both SP and FS. That is the reason they were so close this year, and I think that if Denis had not crashed against the boards in the SP and Yuzuru skated like he did both days, Denis would have been silver. Sure, I don't think Denis' number's can compete against a clean Fernandez' or Hanyu's (I think only a clean Chan could go against a clean Yuzuru), but as long as it doesn't happen, Denis is still in the game. Which makes it more exciting altogether for next season.
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No one has a chance against a perfect Hanyu. Maybe Chan can edge him out in PCS if they are more or less equal in TES.
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That said, when has Hanyu ever been perfect! TBH amongst the top men, who wins is merely who has the fewest mistakes.
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- Jan 28, 2014
That's really interesting and also one way to look at it. Thank you.
But I think what puzzles me most is how vague the component scoring is. What does an 8.5 mean? What does 9.0 mean? What do those values represent? The scoring is the same but the value of those numbers aren't. I don't know what the judges' reasons are for handing out those points but they are inaccurate, IMO. Not even close to being just inaccurate but, dare I say, ridiculous at some point.
So I can't help but compare skaters to each other, like Yuna got an 8.45 in SS in 2009 Worlds and then Liza got an 8.46 in SS at this year's Worlds. But are their skating skills really just 0.01 point apart?
In general tho, I don't really care much about the scores these days because they just don't make sense. What I care about is how awesome these ladies are. I'm incredibly proud and amazed by them because, more than their ability, they rose up to the challenge and emerged victorious. Liza was often times called fat by some people (scr*w them) and she was written off before but now she set history by being the first lady to land four triples in SP and one World gold medal hanging in her neck. Eat that, haters!
The truth is, we can't expect judges to have a "history book of PCS" open on their lap while they hand out every score. They aren't going to run through their heads, "Well, I only gave Yuna 32 at one Worlds six years ago, so I can't give Liza 33." I'm hardly a fan of PCS inflation, but it seems like one of the constants of scoring. (IIRC, the same thing happened by the tail end of 6.0: they were handing out a lot more perfect 6.0s near the end than they did in the beginning).
Yuna's Danse Macabre skated today would certainly not get 32 PCS. It was a very good score compared to what other people were pulling in 2009, and it hardly matters what some person 5 years later scored. Trying to compare over too many years is madness--I'd get driven insane if I thought too hard about Michelle only getting 29 PCS at 2005 Worlds (b-but, that's less than Gracie Gold with a meltdown, and the same as Anna Pogorilaya with a fall? Nooooo!
)
To bring things closer to home: At 2014 Worlds, Mao's received 35.85 and 72.76 PCS. This year, Liza received 33.53 and 65.99. They both skated clean SPs and made small errors in the LP. Should the difference be bigger? Perhaps. But you can see a sizable difference, and there's no indication that the judges are putting Liza on the level of Mao/Yuna/Carolina yet. (And even if they are, if Mao returns, she would just get even higher PCS).
Ladies hasn't reached the point where everyone's getting 9s and 10s and +GOE for flawed elements (like ice dance and men's--in those disciplines, I wonder how they're going to separate people in a few years when everyone's pulling 10s). Inflation happens in ladies, but there's really bigger fish to fry.
To the person who thinks Gracie should receive highest PCS: Even discounting whether Gracie deserves higher PCS or not (I don't think she does outside of SS), when did she ever deliver a performance that warrants the highest PCS of the season? Her only clean SP came at a GP, and we all know scores tend to rise as the season progresses (she was well-rewarded for it btw--higher PCS than Alena Leonova, who had a much better program). She hasn't skated a single clean LP. Gracie simply hasn't delivered an SP like Liza at Worlds, or an LP like Liza at Europeans. It would be quite the travesty if Gracie is holding the season's best PCS scores after the way she skated.
Yuna's Danse Macabre skated today would certainly not get 32 PCS. It was a very good score compared to what other people were pulling in 2009, and it hardly matters what some person 5 years later scored. Trying to compare over too many years is madness--I'd get driven insane if I thought too hard about Michelle only getting 29 PCS at 2005 Worlds (b-but, that's less than Gracie Gold with a meltdown, and the same as Anna Pogorilaya with a fall? Nooooo!
)To bring things closer to home: At 2014 Worlds, Mao's received 35.85 and 72.76 PCS. This year, Liza received 33.53 and 65.99. They both skated clean SPs and made small errors in the LP. Should the difference be bigger? Perhaps. But you can see a sizable difference, and there's no indication that the judges are putting Liza on the level of Mao/Yuna/Carolina yet. (And even if they are, if Mao returns, she would just get even higher PCS).
Ladies hasn't reached the point where everyone's getting 9s and 10s and +GOE for flawed elements (like ice dance and men's--in those disciplines, I wonder how they're going to separate people in a few years when everyone's pulling 10s). Inflation happens in ladies, but there's really bigger fish to fry.
To the person who thinks Gracie should receive highest PCS: Even discounting whether Gracie deserves higher PCS or not (I don't think she does outside of SS), when did she ever deliver a performance that warrants the highest PCS of the season? Her only clean SP came at a GP, and we all know scores tend to rise as the season progresses (she was well-rewarded for it btw--higher PCS than Alena Leonova, who had a much better program). She hasn't skated a single clean LP. Gracie simply hasn't delivered an SP like Liza at Worlds, or an LP like Liza at Europeans. It would be quite the travesty if Gracie is holding the season's best PCS scores after the way she skated.
Actually after doing a quick analysis on the PCs awarded on Worlds 2009-2015 on ladies LP...
2009-2010-2011-2012 had rather similar PCs patterns (overall LP, top skaters, average and bottom skaters etc).
Then, in 2013-2014 PCs awarded were roughly 10% higher than in previous years.
In 2015, the values just went back to 2009-2012 levels.
As it seems that PCs are still "inflated", i suppose that PCs in 2015 were awarded in a similar pattern to 2013-2014 - the "real" values are lower, and the inflation brings them up to the 2009-2012 level.
So...
"At 2014 Worlds, Mao's received 35.85 and 72.76 PCS. This year, Liza received 33.53 and 65.99" Appearently, those are pretty much same scale. Not sure if the difference would be bigger just due to inflation.
Yuna`s PCs in 2009: 32.72. Correcting by the inflation for 2013-2014, that would be actually about 36.
Hmmm is there actually any proper place for this stuff? /forgive the nub for spam and offtopic
2009-2010-2011-2012 had rather similar PCs patterns (overall LP, top skaters, average and bottom skaters etc).
Then, in 2013-2014 PCs awarded were roughly 10% higher than in previous years.
In 2015, the values just went back to 2009-2012 levels.
As it seems that PCs are still "inflated", i suppose that PCs in 2015 were awarded in a similar pattern to 2013-2014 - the "real" values are lower, and the inflation brings them up to the 2009-2012 level.
So...
"At 2014 Worlds, Mao's received 35.85 and 72.76 PCS. This year, Liza received 33.53 and 65.99" Appearently, those are pretty much same scale. Not sure if the difference would be bigger just due to inflation.
Yuna`s PCs in 2009: 32.72. Correcting by the inflation for 2013-2014, that would be actually about 36.
Hmmm is there actually any proper place for this stuff? /forgive the nub for spam and offtopic
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That is truly saddening. But, it is good that the Eurosport commentators still have a sense of standards, and their commentary reflects the true value of a program both now and then. Funny how humans can be more standardized than the numbers. For instance, compare the commentary of the Eurosport guys of the Danse Macabre SP to Liza's SP with the 3axel. Just compare. It is so obvious who has the higher marks in all the PCS components. The numbers that are given out now mean nothing, because the "standard" of skating has declined.
Also, Liza's CH = 8.46, where she uses Kostner's moves at the same exact parts of the music? Seriously...? This is why I don't consider skating a sport anymore.
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We totally need some place to make the necessary calculations an always report PCS in standardized units. So kind of like things are often reported in 1980 dollars, maybe we should start reporting scores in 2010 PCS
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- Apr 16, 2006
We totally need some place to make the necessary calculations an always report PCS in standardized units. So kind of like things are often reported in 1980 dollars, maybe we should start reporting scores in 2010 PCS
I am all for it! It would be an awesome way to go about it. Depending on which country the currency is from, though...
