Mao Asada plans comeback

moriel · May 22, 2015

psusanne said:
I still think that this discussion is exaggerated.
Mishin made a statement on Mao's 3A, saying it was an "illusion". And I guess that he doesn't like her take-off. So from Mishin's viewpoint, it isn't executed as it is supposed to be executed. He wouldn't teach his students to execute a 3A that way. That's his opinion and the tech panels will have a different opinion, because (I hope I remember correctly) Mao always got credit for her 3A when the landing was clean. And Elizaveta might have the more reliable technique, but we'll see that next season. But this whole article is too short. A good interviewer would've asked further.
And I'll also enjoy watching both ladies doing a 3A next season.

TBH, i recall Mishing implying in an interview that many people do the axel wrong:
http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-skating/reviews/860361/8082737884/
"– Да. Могу открыть секрет: многие люди точат коньки, стараясь сделать их как можно острее. А острое лезвие невозможно повернуть в момент захода на тройной аксель таким образом, чтобы создать нужное направление вращения. И прыжка не будет, как бы человек ни старался. Конек должен быть заточен таким образом, чтобы он мог как бы "забуксовать" – именно это создает вращательный момент, который фигуристу остается только подхватить. Если же этого не происходит, прыжок сразу начинает требовать огромного количества "физики". При мужской силе с этим еще можно справиться, при женской – крайне трудно."

Basically: many people get their blades too sharp, and you cannot turn a sharp blade the right way to create right rotation movement when entering a 3A. [...] Else the jump requires lots of physical strength - guys can be strong enough to bruteforce it, but its extremely complicated for a woman.

And this looks like a case of flawed axel technique that judges will not account for as there is nothing really "wrong" such as UR

Interspectator · May 22, 2015

moriel said:
TBH, i recall Mishing implying in an interview that many people do the axel wrong:
http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-skating/reviews/860361/8082737884/
"– Да. Могу открыть секрет: многие люди точат коньки, стараясь сделать их как можно острее. А острое лезвие невозможно повернуть в момент захода на тройной аксель таким образом, чтобы создать нужное направление вращения. И прыжка не будет, как бы человек ни старался. Конек должен быть заточен таким образом, чтобы он мог как бы "забуксовать" – именно это создает вращательный момент, который фигуристу остается только подхватить. Если же этого не происходит, прыжок сразу начинает требовать огромного количества "физики". При мужской силе с этим еще можно справиться, при женской – крайне трудно."

Basically: many people get their blades too sharp, and you cannot turn a sharp blade the right way to create right rotation movement when entering a 3A. [...] Else the jump requires lots of physical strength - guys can be strong enough to bruteforce it, but its extremely complicated for a woman.

And this looks like a case of flawed axel technique that judges will not account for as there is nothing really "wrong" such as UR

What must Mishin think about Kovtun's jumping then?? Has he never completed any jump EVER? :biggrin:

moriel · May 22, 2015

Newbiespectator said:
What must Mishin think about Kovtun's jumping then?? Has he never completed any jump EVER?

Well, my quote was not about completing =P But well, when Mishin listed people with great jump technique somewhere, Kovtun wasn´t listed lols =D
I dunno, while i dont excuse Mishin if he actually said that, it sounds very blatantly wrong (i´m sure a coach of his level would have find a better way to criticise, we cannot deny he is smart after all) that i suspect that he said something like "Mao never jumped it right" and the journalist wrote the "clean"

hurrah · May 22, 2015

Mao's axel technique must not be all that wrong since it's not like she's got male muscle power to get away with blatantly wrong take-off technique and is the tallest woman ever to successfully land a 3-axel, as well as being the most prolific 3-axel lady jumper to date.

Shizuka says that Mao is practicing 1loop-3salchow combination:

http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2015/05/22/kiji/K20150522010397090.html

:popcorn:

Krunchii · May 22, 2015

hurrah said:
Mao's axel technique must not be all that wrong since it's not like she's got male muscle power to get away with blatantly wrong take-off technique and is the tallest woman ever to successfully land a 3-axel, as well as being the most prolific 3-axel lady jumper to date.

Shizuka says that Mao is practicing 1loop-3salchow combination:

http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2015/05/22/kiji/K20150522010397090.html

Well if Ashley could somehow do a 1Lo-3S combo with a weak 3S then I don't think it's too farfetched for Mao either, It's good that we're hearing all this stuff about her practicing such high level stuff but I hope she is careful not to injure herself

Also I think we're dwelling on Mishin's words too much, I think Mao is past the point of caring what others say, she's had a lot of stuff thrown at her over the years, it probably doesn't matter much, I think she's just diligently practicing on her own and doing her thing

JayW · May 22, 2015

Wow, politiking already started!

yhmafan · May 22, 2015

Oh no! mhshin…

largeman said:
let's all enjoy a gorgeously made and inspiring video - Mao Asada - Spin the World Around

jump to 2:15 for the explosion of 3As.

Thanks. Whoever made this is a genius.

moriel · May 22, 2015

Krunchii said:
Well if Ashley could somehow do a 1Lo-3S combo with a weak 3S then I don't think it's too farfetched for Mao either, It's good that we're hearing all this stuff about her practicing such high level stuff but I hope she is careful not to injure herself

Also I think we're dwelling on Mishin's words too much, I think Mao is past the point of caring what others say, she's had a lot of stuff thrown at her over the years, it probably doesn't matter much, I think she's just diligently practicing on her own and doing her thing

What else we got to do hehe
It sounds like a summer thing that fans do while waiting for the axel battle to begin =D

Someone should make a trailer for this, as the one that was linked in the russian ladies thread but just Mao x Liza =D

Sam-Skwantch · May 22, 2015

Krunchii said:
Also I think we're dwelling on Mishin's words too much, I think Mao is past the point of caring what others say, she's had a lot of stuff thrown at her over the years, it probably doesn't matter much, I think she's just diligently practicing on her own and doing her thing

I couldn't possible agree more. I'm not so sure I trust the Russian media enough to even believe what is being reported and then subsequently translated. Even the most mainstream and credible sources tend to be almost tabloid like in their "story telling" at times.

yhmafan · May 22, 2015

hurrah said:
Partial translation of an article written by a journalist about Mao's comeback:

Neither Mao nor anyone else yet knows the moment when she will make her comeback, and there are no guarantees in terms of the results that she will achieve. But the one certainty is that many of us will watch Asada Mao's return to competitive ice not because we are interested in her placement, but because it will be a rare opportunity for us to have a glimpse of how she herself lives her life. As a skater who has already gifted us with so many awe-inspiring performances, and now having fully reached maturity, she will undoubtedly allow us a view of her true nature as the quintessential skater. On the ice, she will, we trust, show us the extraordinary love that she has had for this sport.

　どのタイミングで復帰戦となるのか、そこでどのような結果になるのか、それは本人にも誰にもわからない。だが1つ確かなのは、浅田真央が再び競技の氷の上に立ったとき、多くの人々が求めるものは、順位よりも彼女の生き様を氷の上で見せてくれることに違いないということだ。
　これまで数多くの心に残るプログラムを見せてきた彼女だからこそ、円熟しきった現在、浅田真央というスケーターの真髄を見せてくれるに違いない。そして彼女がどれほどこのスポーツを愛してきたのかを、氷の上で表現してくれるだろう。

http://number.bunshun.jp/articles/-/823374?page=2

THIS. :dance:

Kelly · May 22, 2015

If Mao is injury-free when training, I believe she can get back to her 2014 Worlds form and then as she said she will compete.
What others think doesn't matter, when Mao currently holds the SP record and that SP has a beautifully executed 3-axel.

Krunchii · May 22, 2015

Sam-Skwantch said:
I couldn't possible agree more. I'm not so sure I trust the Russian media enough to even believe what is being reported and then subsequently translated. Even the most mainstream and credible sources tend to be almost tabloid like in their "story telling" at times.

Yepp, media today gets really sensationalist, my favourite is when the headline is malicious and the contents of the article are tame, drama for days :drama:

Even if the words are 100% true and accurate, I still can't really find it in me to care haha save for jumps I think Mao is superior to Liza in all other aspects, 3A or not I just want Mao to be happy and I don't think Mishin's words will affect her because I think Mao's focus is on herself and not others

Sandpiper · May 22, 2015

kiara_bleu said:
Oh no, I'm not saying that Mao or any other skaters should be free of scrutiny be it from fans, media, or even other skaters and coaches. All I am saying is that Mishin could have chosen to speak of this issue in many different ways but chose to do it using hyperbole, he "has never seen Mao do a clean triple axel". You don't say things like that without knowing you will be getting attention/reaction. That's sports, it's all part of the game...a form of trash talking. If this was basketball it's the equivalent of a coach publicly accusing players of the rival team of flopping (players pretending they are getting fouled to get free throws) to try to sway referees officiating the game.

Well, just because Mishin made an outrageous, unsubstantiated statement doesn't mean our only reaction should be unsubstantiated outrage.

I decided to look through some of Mao's 3As to judge with my own eyes (best as I am able, since I'm clearly not a technician). I can only conclude that Mishin is speaking of the take-off or landing of the jump. However, current ISU rules allow for a 1/4 turn, and to me it does seem like Mao's past that--so if Mishin has issues with that 1/4 turn allowance, he can take it up to the ISU.

(Of course, as I've noted in my other post, Mao has landed 100% rotated axels before, so even if Mishin's making up his own rules, it's still the wrong thing to say.)

However, even though we all agree Mishin's wrong, I doubt it can hurt Mao to get her 3A "cleaner" (not by next season or something, but building toward 2018?). I wondered if there's something she could do at this point, because in every other respect it looks like a good jump for her.

hurrah · May 22, 2015

Sandpiper said:
However, even though we all agree Mishin's wrong, I doubt it can hurt Mao to get her 3A "cleaner" (not by next season or something, but building toward 2018?). I wondered if there's something she could do at this point, because in every other respect it looks like a good jump for her.

I'm sure Mao and Coach Sato are already busy improving all aspects of her technique, and we posters here don't need to discuss what she should do (as if that would make any difference at all to her training regimen). Anyway, I don't know that improving her 3-axel is all that waaayyy up there on their list of to-dos. During 2014, her 3-axel was ratified with similar GOEs to Eliza's, after all. Mishin (or Russian media) can yack all they want, Mao can do the 3-axel and even if her take-off is not as 'pure' as Eliza's, her air position is better, her rotations are tighter, and she actually gets better height and similar width to Eliza's 3-axel jump, so it's not like the take-off is slowing her down (not to mention the fact that Eliza telegraphs her jump ever so lightly, at least in comparison to Mao, and does not have any transitions after her jump as opposed to lovely transitions from Mao) .

As already mentioned above, I think they are experimenting with adding the 1loop-3salchow to her arsenal. Now that is a very cool move. I'm guessing Shizuka was there at Mao's practice to give salchow advice, since she is known for having great salchow technique.

Sandpiper · May 22, 2015

hurrah said:
I'm sure Mao and Coach Sato are already busy improving all aspects of her technique, and we posters here don't need to discuss what she should do (as if that would make any difference at all to her training regimen). Anyway, I don't know that improving her 3-axel is all that waaayyy up there on their list of to-dos. During 2014, her 3-axel was ratified with similar GOEs to Eliza's, after all. Mishin (or Russian media) can yack all they want, Mao can do the 3-axel and even if her take-off is not as 'pure' as Eliza's, her air position is better, her rotations are tighter, and she actually gets better height and similar width to Eliza's 3-axel jump, so it's not like the take-off is slowing her down.

As already mentioned above, I think they are experimenting with adding the 1loop-3salchow to her arsenal. Now that is a very cool move. I'm guessing Shizuka was there at Mao's practice to give salchow advice, since she is known for having great salchow technique.

This is a forum; it's what we do--discuss things we don't need to.

(Or rage about things we don't need to).

While I'm still personally on the fence for half-loops as far as aesthetics are concerned, it could be a good thing for Mao to try (since tech panels aren't exactly fond of -3Los). Will she keep the 3Lo-2Lo in the SP, or will she practice another 3-3?

hurrah · May 22, 2015

Sandpiper said:
Will she keep the 3Lo-2Lo in the SP, or will she practice another 3-3?

Who knows? She does hold the world record with a 3l-2l,so there's no immediate need, but that said, I suppose if she stays until Olympics, she will replace it with a 3-3, but, who knows?

Sandpiper · May 22, 2015

hurrah said:
Who knows? She does hold the world record with a 3l-2l,so there's no immediate need, but that said, I suppose if she stays until Olympics, she will replace it with a 3-3, but, who knows?

I like the idea of Mao keeping the 3Lo-2Lo for the immediate season (to not risk overtraining/injury), but to perhaps upgrade as we approach the Olympics. :yes: (but yes, who knows?)

kiara_bleu · May 22, 2015

Sandpiper said:
Well, just because Mishin made an outrageous, unsubstantiated statement doesn't mean our only reaction should be unsubstantiated outrage

That's what I mean, take what he says with a grain of salt and keep in mind his motivation for saying it the way he did. No need to overreact over what he says but just understand that in some ways it is part of sports. He is going to highlight a perceived/proven (depending on where you sit in this issue) weakness in Mao's skating to bolster his own skater. There is of course a kernel of truth to what he says as you have shown since this is not really the first time Mao has been scrutinized for her jumps.

That's why I said I'm not surprised at all that he said something about it but found it interesting the way he said it (if quoted accurately). And of course, we fans get to have the fun of debating what he says. And the media will be all over this quote if Mao is truly back strong with her triple axel during the season. Narratives get generated in sports all the time and Mishin got his own version out there.

AsadaFanBoy · May 22, 2015

It has been my observation that many times a jump is judged underrotated even when it isn't due to one pesky quality:

a leg wrap that opens after landing.

It's dinged Satoko and Ashley even when playback shows the jump was less than 1/4 rotation from fully rotated. Mao also sometimes has a wrap upon landing. It's flawed technique and distracting, but jumps need to be called accurately.

Watersmarch · May 22, 2015

psusanne said:
Regarding that statement from Mishin: I think he only meant that her 3A was not consistent. And it's true that it wasn't consistent over the past say 8 years. But there were times when her 3A was pretty consistent. So he's doing a little politicking, but I wouldn't consider his statement to be rude. He's not stupid and he isn't rude.
One shouldn't make a mountain out of a molehill ...

I could not agree with you more psusanne. But then again isn't making mountains out of molehills a prerequisite for skating fandom? LOL

Mao Asada plans comeback

moriel

Interspectator

moriel

hurrah

Krunchii

JayW

yhmafan

moriel

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

yhmafan

Kelly

Krunchii

Sandpiper

hurrah

Sandpiper

hurrah

Sandpiper

kiara_bleu

AsadaFanBoy

Watersmarch

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