What if Michelle Had Stuck with Frank?

LiamForeman said:

Poor dear.

Click to expand...

Yeah, poor baby then. But baby, look at her now!

At a skate-with-Michelle fundraiser for the Special Olympics:

https://instagram.com/p/3E8VUYBILD/

Preparing to run the first leg of the cross country torch run for the Special Olympics today, with her husband Clay Pell:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGMRQbVW0AAx2tA.jpg

LiamForeman said:

I do think that Kwan needed a technical coach for SLC. Her flip was wonky all season, and she was doing crazy things like attempting 3flutz-3loop. TSL had an in depth interview with Frank Carroll and because he has class he didn't fall into those questions. It was rumored he expected a certain percentage of her earnings that season if she won. Oops. Kween failed. She was nothing but a Kwincess as her "Fields of Bronze" showed.

I am not the kind of person who feels you always HAVE to have a coach by the boards to clap you on. But come on, the OLYMPICS??? *** was she thinking? The very worst time to have your timing off on a jump and not have a coach to smooth it out in a matter of seconds..... She missed the flip in the SP too, very UR'd and though she stood up it was sub-par.

The SP showed that the gold was hers. Only hers, and she screwed it up. Poor dear.

Click to expand...

I agree, LiamForeman. I think Frank would have helped with the technical glitches. Despite her two foot landing and fall, I though MK's performance was, overall, strong. I found her edges, flow and artistic impression far better than Irina's. Irina's cute, athletic Russian style was not impressive on the Olympic ice that night, in my opinion. But Michelle decided to go solo with daddy holding her guards. I don't think the results were a travesty just sad for those of us who wanted to see her with that gold medal. I would also agree that Hughes was helped in the SP; I would have had her SP in 5th or 6th and out of gold contention based on the 6.0 system. Had Hughes not had the skate of her life while standing in 4th place, the gold would have been Irina's. Considering her health struggles and efforts to help her mother, that might have been ok. Shoulda, coulda, woulda...MK remains the queen in my ice princess book

I always thought it was Michelle's father Dan that fired Frank, or convinced Michelle to. That's what I heard anyway. IMHO I think she should never have gone to the Olympics coach free. I think it cost her.

Sarah Hughes had the night of her life that night. It was a lucky shot, the luck of the draw. Sarah never won a Nationals or Worlds and has never skated that well before or since.. Her SP at SLC was weak,she was slow and tentative, yes, she landed the jumps but not strongly, her flip was slow and she nearly hit the boards in her 3/2 lutz combo. Her choreography was nowhere near the level of Sasha or Michelle's. She picks up speed for her footwork but the music stays the same, it doesn't fit. Her free leg in the spiral is bent and not held high. I mean, watching her SP, you would never in a million years think that this is the OGMedaist. She's good, but I think her skating needed more development. She was generously scored in the SP and that combined with Michelle faltering and Irina beating Michelle and Sarah skating a clean LP, she won overall.

The images of Robin Wagner and Sarah falling to the ground is etched in my mind, a stinging moment. But it's done. Michelle never won her OGM, somehow the Olympics made her tighten up, she may have wanted it so much that the pressure was just too great. Michelle is a fierce competitor and has displayed nerves of steel repeatedly which has garnered her 5 world titles. It doesn't mater that Michelle doesn't have the gold, she won silver and bronze, two times standing on the Olympic podium. That alone is huge. No one will ever match Michelle's consistency, or come close to 9 national titles. She's won the hearts of millions of loyal fans who've stood by her and supported through every competition. She's happy, she went to school and perused other interest and has done very well.

To be kinder to Sarah it was meant to be. She was 16 and both she and Sasha were amazing. Sasha suffered from lack of intl reputation. Her sp was georgeous. If you win an OGM at 16 maybe life seems anti-climactic. She didn't train much after but there was a resentment toward her from us skating fans. A backlash that I wish Tara and Sarah would write about.

MK had some great programs and was consistent in single jumps. She did not push the triple triples because she won without them. I think her anger at Frank and Laurie was misguided. Now she has 20/20 perspective. She didn't need OGM. She's rich and her career longevity is because she did not win. I have always disagreed she was tight in 1998. Lyra was great in Nagano. Tara was incredible too. Making history in a few ways. It was close.

Sarah should not have been near the podium with that short. And Michelle didn't fall (her behind never touched the ice...)

LiamForeman said:

I do think that Kwan needed a technical coach for SLC. Her flip was wonky all season, and she was doing crazy things like attempting 3flutz-3loop. TSL had an in depth interview with Frank Carroll and because he has class he didn't fall into those questions. It was rumored he expected a certain percentage of her earnings that season if she won. Oops. Kween failed. She was nothing but a Kwincess as her "Fields of Bronze" showed.

I am not the kind of person who feels you always HAVE to have a coach by the boards to clap you on. But come on, the OLYMPICS??? *** was she thinking? The very worst time to have your timing off on a jump and not have a coach to smooth it out in a matter of seconds..... She missed the flip in the SP too, very UR'd and though she stood up it was sub-par.

The SP showed that the gold was hers. Only hers, and she screwed it up. Poor dear.

Click to expand...

I do think there is a reason there are coaches. Look what happened to Patrick Chan he has been skating for a few years without a coach and has technical difficulties. Let's be honest Kathy Johnson is not a coach especially technically - more of a glorified support person and dance teacher. At least Michelle was technically more sound than Patrick. But only a fool represents themselves in law likewise in skating - the caveat being unless the coach is horrible, abusive then of course that would be different.

The sad thing is that I thought her 2003 Worlds LP just a year later was MASTERFUL. Free, totally her, just gorgeous. Who did Scheherazade? I think it was Kawahara, but obviously it was a totally watered down Kawahara. If she just skated free and strong she would have won SLC with 6 triples and no 3/3. Oh well, would've, could've should'ves.....

midorichen said:

And Irina Slutskaya? (Who deserved the OGM in my eyes, as I think she should have been 1st in the SP, with Sarah around 6th, and 2nd in the FS, behind Sarah.) As for Sasha, I thought her SP was lovely, but she was too young and inexperienced for her FS music - and she made mistakes.

Click to expand...

I have always thought that Sarah should have been about 6th after the sp and gotten the bronze medal. In my opinion Irina should have won the sp, been second in the freeskate after Sarah and won the gold medal. Based on sp and fs Michelle deserved the silver medal.

When people say they think Irina should have won the SP it always makes me sad. She frontloads the program with her jumps, her spins don't have much choreographic purpose, and there isn't much interpretation happening. She's just trying to act graceful and elegant because her coach thought that would be the safest way to beat Kwan and it makes her skating worse. The delivery of the elements was not perfect from Slutskaya in this case either. There is too long of a break in the steps before she does her 3Flip and she loses control on the second half of her combination spin. Compared to Sasha, the only elements you can say Slutskaya deserves more credit for are the combination jump and the footwork sequence. Compared to Kwan, there is an ocean of difference in the second mark.

As for Sarah's SP, I think 4th was a fair placement for her, even if I might slightly prefer Suguri or Sebestyen. She loses on the jumps but she does still have the layback and spiral that were superior (MUCH superior to Sebestyen in both cases), plus added difficulty on the flying camel with a nice change of edge.

If Michelle had landed the triple/triple, she would have won with the mistake. Or, if she had skated lights out without the triple/triple and landed the flip, she would have won. I think the main thing she needed to put a stamp on things was the full choreography at the end. Sticking in the 3t at the end sacrificed the climax. With the intended ending, the presentation marks would have been much higher.

She needed someone technical by the boards, even if it was just to say, "reach back on that flip, don't slip off the toe!" What's interesting is that she kind of rushed the triple/triple and slipped off the toe on that as well but managed to stay upright.

I remember the year she dumped him before the Olympics, and he watched them at home on TV. I felt bad for him.

slider11 said:

So I see that MK just gave some lifetime achievement to her "friend and former coach" Frank Carroll. So, nice that there was no lingering bad vibes there and that they seem very chummy now. So what if....What if Michelle had not stepped away from Frank as a coach just months before the 2002 Olympics? What happened? Was there a riff or did Michelle just simply think she could do it alone. Who knows if the outcome would have been different. Somehow I have to think that Frank might have been that stabilizing force to keep her nerves at bay and help her achieve the gold medal status she deserved. No disrespect to Sarah Hughes. She had the skate of her life; not amazingly artistic but super-content based and pleasant artistically. Michelle's LP was definitely tight and with mistakes. I guess we'll never know but I wonder if she and Frank chat about it. Or is that ancient history and they just remember the good times?

Click to expand...

So political ... That's why I don't take Olympic competitions to much to heart.

Mathman said:

For conspiracy theorists, it seemed obvious that the pairs scandal coat Michelle the gold medal. The judges were all set to give it to her (the competition was in the United States after all), and they placed her over Slutskaya in the short program to make their intensions clear. But then after the pairs thing, they didn't dare give Michelle the title with a fall.

Fortunately, they had a Plan B. By holding Sarah up to fourth in the SP, they could still give the prize to an American after she skated so well in the LP, sending everyone home happy after all.

In Sochi they wanted Lipnitskaia, but -- exercising foresight -- they kept Sotnikova in the wings just in case.

Click to expand...

MK's Winter said:

Sarah should not have been near the podium with that short. And Michelle didn't fall (her behind never touched the ice...)

Click to expand...

Your behind doesn't have to touch the ice for it to be a fall. But I don't think what happened with her was a fall.

slider11 said:

I agree, LiamForeman. I think Frank would have helped with the technical glitches. Despite her two foot landing and fall, I though MK's performance was, overall, strong. I found her edges, flow and artistic impression far better than Irina's. Irina's cute, athletic Russian style was not impressive on the Olympic ice that night, in my opinion. But Michelle decided to go solo with daddy holding her guards. I don't think the results were a travesty just sad for those of us who wanted to see her with that gold medal. I would also agree that Hughes was helped in the SP; I would have had her SP in 5th or 6th and out of gold contention based on the 6.0 system. Had Hughes not had the skate of her life while standing in 4th place, the gold would have been Irina's. Considering her health struggles and efforts to help her mother, that might have been ok. Shoulda, coulda, woulda...MK remains the queen in my ice princess book

Click to expand...

I don't have any problem with Sarah's scores. To me, it would have been even worse to see Irina win with her overwrought (and in my view, sloppy, rushed and rather awful) long program. For Michelle, the flip was her nemesis at the Olympics. Everywhere else, it was very good and very consistent. In her best Olympic performance--the 1998 short program--she didn't even do it. In her long program at Nagano, she kind of saved it, but it was OK. In SLC, it was iffy in the short program and in the long, of course, she fell. I don't know if having a coach in 2002 would have helped, but I can't imagine it would have hurt. It was just doubly painful to see Danny there with her in the K&C.