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Thread: American Idol Showdown: May 25th

  1. #16
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    Sorry if you think I'm insulting anyone but the fact of the matter is that Fantasia can outsing Diana. Diana might be able to outscream Fantasia but that's a whole other debate. Even Randy, a big Diana fan, told her that she has problems with lower notes. Fantasia, OTOH, actually hits notes in every register.

    Singing should not be defined as who can sustain the loudest, longest glorynote. That's what Diana DeGarmo does. Is she a horrible singer? No. Is she good enough to be the American Idol? No. She tries to sing like Kelly Clarkson but doesn't come close.

  2. #17
    Da' Spellin' Homegirl Grgranny's Avatar
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    I never liked Kelly either. Just talked to my daughter and she sure agreed with me on Fantasia and her nasalness.
    And Diana couldn't hit on key.
    My decision: No winner.
    p. s. My daughter was a music teacher.

  3. #18
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    There's no question that Fantasia sounds somewhat nasally. She's very reminiscent of Macy Gray. Personally I liken her to Billie Holliday in the way she sings. Whether one likes her voice or not, the point is that the talent is there in spades.

  4. #19
    Da' Spellin' Homegirl Grgranny's Avatar
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    Boy Mike, I'm going to have to throw you to the ceiling fan again.

    Singing nasally is not talent.

  5. #20
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    I find that Fantasia goes nasally only when she goes overboard with her crazy 'Yeah, Yeah's', leading into some weird screeching--take for example her horrible first song tonight. The rest of the time she is singing in key with usually excellent pitch.

    I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

  6. #21
    Arm Chair Skate Fan show 42's Avatar
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    Well, I got as far as Fantasia's second song and I broke my own rule and listened to the "judges".......when Simon said that Fantasia was the best singer they have every had, I switched channels.....she may be on the same level as Kelly, LaToya, and Tamara, but she is NOT better than Clay........anyway, I am officially done, won't watch tomorrow night.......I switched to the Laker's game........go Shaq.......... 42
    Last edited by show 42; 05-26-2004 at 09:21 AM.

  7. #22
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    all I have to say is....

    If Fantasia doesn't win this, it's a crime!!!!

    (Just my own humble opinion, of course.....)

    Herm (sk8ngnutt)

  8. #23
    GOLDEN DREAMS RealtorGal's Avatar
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    Well, at Twinnie's request, I will give my opinion on latest regarding all things AI.

    First of all, I did end up caving last week and watching the show. I just couldn't stand the thought of watching a show where 2/3 of the remaining contestants can't carry a tune without going off key or perform a song without the heart I like to feel in a performance. But, I watched anyway just to watch Fantasia and I'm glad I did.

    Fantasia won me over around the time she sang "Summertime". I never denied her talent before that performance, but the voice just didn't do anything for me. After "Summertime," her performances became so moving to me and her passion so incredible that I began to actually like her voice more. Vocally, I still prefer the purity of sound of La Toya and Jennifer, but La Toya lags in terms of presentation and passion when compared with Fantasia, who, in my opinion, is an amazing ARTIST. Anyone who can take a standard like "Summertime," which I have heard 1000 times, and make it so unique, so new, has just got to be an artist. Fantasia did that for me. She cuts right to the soul, because SHE bares HER OWN soul when she sings. She gives us 500%. That crying she does often is NOT fake--she can't help it. She lets everything out--in her music and in her personality.

    I would have loved to see a showdown between Fantasia and Jennifer, but it was not meant to be.

    Now, as for the Diana phenomenon... I still can't stand her. She is so fake--it makes me want to hurl. (How's that for a professional opinion?!) She just stands there and screams. Yes, Fantasia does her share of screaming, but it comes so from within, whereas with Diana, it's just not there. Nothing could have demonstrated the difference between them more than by singing the same song, which they did. The difference between them was staggering.

    But don't be surprised if Diana wins. After all, this is a country that made a talentless ho like Britney Spears a star, a ho with some actual vocal talent like Christina Aguilera a star, and a country that for some reason I can't understand, can't seem to get enough of Jessica Simpson and Wimp... oops, I mean, Nick Lachey. But, even if she wins, so what? Fantasia is a star that will burn brightly for a long time to come. Diana is a shooting star that will eventually fade from the national consciousness, unless something happens to help her develop a truth to her singing and help her get beyond her being in love with her big, empty "Gosh, I am so great!" voice.

    With Fantasia it's about artistry, communication, love for the world (you can just see and hear this!) and the music.

    With Diana, it's all about Diana.

  9. #24
    GOLDEN DREAMS RealtorGal's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    In response to prior questions about voting along racial lines, I forgot to mention that RG Jr. (age 10) claims that EVERYONE she knows is voting for Fantasia. We are not in the most ethnically mixed of neighborhoods--mostly white, some Hispanic, some Asian, very few blacks.

  10. #25
    Arm Chair Skate Fan show 42's Avatar
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    GrGranny.........I agree with your comment about Fantasia being too nasally (is that a word?). I don't know if I could listen to a whole CD's worth of songs. She seems genuine and does put her soul into her songs, but too many "yeah, yeah, yeahs" to cover up missed lyrics doesn't sit well with me. I hope either or both LaToya or Jennifer get recording contracts.......I'll buy their CD's......42

  11. #26
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    One thing tonight did show if nothing else is that Tamyra Gray is an excellent songwriter -- the original songs the ladies did this evening was a tremendous improvement over that hideous schlock that Clay and Ruben got saddled with last year, IMO.

    I thought Fantasia was the best tonight, tho I may be more than a bit biased. (I've gotten through 5 times on her lines, between a lot of busy signal, with 3 hours yet to go -- tho I am NOT pathological enough to go at it THAT long!!) Tho I will say that despite judge's opinion, Diana's rendition of "Don't Cry Out Loud" THIS time was fantastic. However, even if Fantasia had coughed and gasped her way through the other 2 songs -- her rendition of "Summertime" gets me EVERY time. I do hope she includes it on her CD. When I think of all the fabulous vocal talents that over the years have done that song, I gotta say, tho I certainly haven't heard all of them, an arguement can well be made that she OWNS that one.

    And yeah, Fantasia may be a bit nasally (maybe more than a bit) and yeah yeah yeah yeah yeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaah she overdoes THAT routine, but there's a difference between NASALLY and SINGING OUT OF YOUR NOSE. I like Diana a lot, and I don't find her fake at all, I actually find her quite genuine, and IMHO one of the reasons for her appeal is that she's very perky upbeat and girl next door WITHOUT CROSSING THE LINE into "Let's just SLAP her, OK?" and I think given what is going on with this country in the world today she is exactly what we need. BUT -- vocally, tho there are things about her voice that I do really like, she tends, to me, to SHRIEK entirely too much. Yes, sometimes Fantasia does too, but Diana does it in a different way. Diana can hit the high notes, but she forces them out way too much. Sometimes I get the feeling she's trying to have a contest with Mariah Carey to see who can break the most glassware.....

    More later, no doubt....

    Coop

  12. #27
    cranky girl guinevere's Avatar
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    Originally posted by show 42
    ...when Simon said that Fantasia was the best singer they have every had, I switched channels.....
    Actually, Simon didn't say Fantasia was the best singer ever on AI - he said the best contestant. A subtle difference, but an important one. I took this to mean the best overall performer - and with the best backstory. Her marketability after this is going to be phenomenal.

    Anyway, on the The Guinevere Review (tm - thanks RGirl!)...

    I didn't watch live tonight, but I taped it. Unfortunately, my VCR somtimes does funny things, so I didn't get the best quality rendition, sigh. I also didn't take notes, which I usually do (yes, I'm that big of a geek), so I'm freestylin' it tonight!

    Song #1:
    I love Tamyra, but "I Believe" is a cruddy song. Better than "A Moment Like This" and the other song from season 1, but schlock nonetheless. Diana came out and sang it ok, but it's pure cheese and nothing will change that. Ho hum. The beginning sounded like Diana was trying to sing it like Tamyra would - an improvement over Diana's usual bombast, still basically an imitation.

    I didn't think Fantasia's first song was as bad as the judges said - it didn't bowl me over, but Fantasia performed the heck out of it. I was surprised at how harsh Simon was - thought maybe some reverse psychology was at work - with both Fantasia and the audience!

    Song #2
    "Enough is Enough" was my favorite performance from Diana this season. I don't know about repeating great performances, though, because how can you recapture the magic? You're inviting the audience to compare you to yourself. This rendition was still good, but not so electrifying as when I first heard her do it.

    I had the same fears about Fantasia doing "Summertime" again - especially because she had also performed it in a special a week or 2 ago (which I didn't see - but I heard it wasn't as good as the first time she did it). Fantasia even performed sitting down again, inviting the comparison to her Top 12 performance. Oddly, I think this was a better performance! It didn't have the intimacy of the first time, but I felt like Fantasia was really able to draw on the energy of being in that huge theater with all those people, and work it into her performance, create something new.

    Song #3
    "Don't Cry Out Loud" was (originally) another strong performance for Diana (just last week!), but this was not good at all. I thought it was my tape until I heard the judges' comments. During one high note, Diana's voice actually cracked - I'm sure both of their voices are just toast right now. I think Diana knew she'd had some big problems and was trying to power her way through the song to get through it. And did Paula really say "Oh well!" to a final 2 contestant?!? Ouch!

    Earlier I said that "I Believe" was a terrible song, and nothing could save it - I was wrong! I had total goosebumps for this whole song. Fantasia's voice was cracking throughout the song, but it was from tossing everything she had into this performance, and it didn't matter. Masterful. Fantasia believed every word of this song - not that Diana didn't, but the first rendition was a pop song conveying the global potential of a song to uplift; when Fantasia sang I felt like I had been dragged through every one of her trials and tribulations to get to that stage. Her experiance in leading a choir was also very evident.

    On to politiks:
    I clearly believe that Fantasia is the way better singer AND performer, but I fully accept that Diana will probably win. Aside from all the demographic analyses that have been going on, there are many things about this evening's competition that seemed designed to crown Fantasia, and I think there are many people who will be angry about Fantasia having basically been crowned American Idol before the voting even happened, and will vote for Diana for that reason only.

    - Fantasia won the right to sing 2nd fair and square, but whoever decided the song order put her at a big advantage as well - getting to close with the single was a coup.

    - This was also out of anyone's control (but Diana and Fantasia), but Fantasia stumbled early and rebounded stringer than ever; Diana had 2 very strong performances, but faltered big time on her last song. Same as with skating programs, a strong finish after an early stumble is MUCH better than a great program that ends with a face-plant.

    - The judges' comments were out of control tonight. Simon couldn't bring himself to say anything positive to Diana even when she did well, without some sort of backhanded criticism that made it clear he doesn't want her to win. But telling Fantasia that she just won the competition with her last performance was just daring America to give this thing to Diana in a landslide. Hasn't this season taught those three anything about the fickle nature of America's voters?

    Oh, one more thing I can't resist: that Paul Anka song was atrocious, and Paul saying Fantasia really nailed it will just contribute to the people voting against her.

    OK, I'm done rambling (this is why I usually take notes)!

    guinevere

  13. #28
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    Twinnie!
    I knew you'd come through! Everything you said about Fantasia is exactly the way I feel. ARTIST is the name of what Fantasia is doing, yes, absolutely. And as Mike and JohnnyCoop have also said in addition to Rgal, it ain't about hitting the glass-breaking notes. It's about moving the listener. And tonight Fantasia did something to me she'd never done before. Fantasia had moved me to chills twice this season, her first "Summertime" and another song near the end of the season I can't remember the name of. Tonight, her first song tanked and "Summertime" still got me, but I thought, "Is she going to try to hard on "I Believe" and take herself out. BTW, great strategy on Fantasia's part to sing "I Believe" last after Diana sang it first--though I don't know that it will win her the competition (more on that later). Anyway, 'Tasia was singing "I Believe" and it was one of the great performance listening/viewing experiences of my life--at least on TV. First it was chills, then it was getting choked up, and then I was a blubbering Rgirl. That girl REALLY got me with that performance. I'm going to sound like the judges but IMO Fantasia is a star, she is amazing, she is an artist, and I agree with Simon that as an overall performer, she is the best AI contestant they have ever had. Now, the key here is AI contestant. A lot of people thought, and I think rightfully so, that there wasn't that much difference between Clay and Ruben last season at the finale. I think what has happened is that Clay has continued to improve at a phenomenal pace. But honestly, though I'll be the first one to say Clay had some knock-out performances last year, he still had a ways to go by the finale. Ruben I never did care for--JMO.

    Anyway, Fantasia, by the finale and throughout the season, has been the only true artist I've seen on AI or World Idol. She is a very special talent and I can understand where Simon is coming from. Such people just show up, like a Tina Turner. The question now is, what will Fantasia do from here? She can still hit some real clunkers, so I think it's very important that whoever produces her CDs (Simon said they will sign her whether she's first, second, or 50th) know how to channel and work with what Fantasia has. I am definitely NOT a crier and for a singer to make me need a box of Kleenex, we're talking that happens about as often as Haley's Comet.

    Mike,
    ITA with your list and your assessments of the two. Twinnie, the one place I disagree is that I have come to where I no longer think Diana is a phony. JohnnyCoop said she's perky and bubbly but she's not like, "Somebody SLAP her! I'm on the fence here and I hate to be that way, but it's the truth. I think Diana started out as Diana for Diana only (she has never come close to moving me--except to the refrigerator), but by about mid-season, after Quentin Tarantino (bless him) told her exactly what she needed to hear, "It's like there's glass between you and me," I felt she did start to get the idea that it's not about HER it's about the audience. When she said she started singing like she sings for her friends at home, I thought that was pretty good for a 16-year-old who is so hyper that I must say I do want to slap her, if nothing else, just to calm her down. But then, she is 16 and 16-year-old hormones can do bizarre things. Still, she's a screamer. She cannot sing a ballad to save her life. Still, she's got pipes and as I've said before, instead of rushing to get her a record deal, the best thing Diana could do, IMO, is spend a year with a great singing teacher, one who can not only teach her the technical things about voice but also teach her about COMMUNICATION, SOUL, all the things Rgal said about Fantasia. I think if Diana spent a year doing that and then started working on an album and took a year to do it (by then she'd be 18), she'd really be something. As it is, I think she'll probably win the competition--I'm going to sound like a snob (fine, beat me with a stick) but I think too many people in this country lack the cultural education to know how special Fantasia is. I think Simon's right, that too many people are pageant people. I think it will be close, but just like last season, I think America will get it wrong again.

    One last thing. Watching this finale made me realize that since the advent of music videos, we never get to see--except when MTV used to do MTV unplugged, which had some amazing performances--singers just sing. On awards shows they're all gunked up. But to hear a good old Ed Sullivan, "Here's a young singer" with an orchestra or "Here are The Rolling Stones," "Elvis Presley," "Barbra Streisand," you name it--that's so long gone. Fantasia made me realize how much I miss that. I talked a friend of mine who lives on Long Island into getting tickets to the AI show--August 31. The prices weren't bad at all, especially compared to Madonna and U2, which are like $200 a pop. The AI tickets for their Long Island concert are $35 and $45. The only thing is they'll be exhausted. And of course you have to watch JPL and that Matt guy.

    I'd love it if America did the right thing and Fantasia won, but I don't think that's going to happen. Even if she hadn't blown that first song I think too many people would never vote for The Bobo. But she's got important fans in the music industry. My one concern is that coming from her background, fame and fortune might be overwhelming. Hopefully her family will keep her grounded.

    Diana--I just don't know. She's really ambitious and seems willing to listen and learn. Of course, you can't build a singing career just by being a "straight A student." Just can't call it, except to say I think she'll win, which will be a crime since that means her version fo "I Believe" will be released instead of Fantasia's.

    And props, props, props to Tamyra Grey--unfairly voted off from the final four, comes back two years later looking and singing like the consummate professional who is now a double threat as a singer/songwriter. That is one SMART woman. She took her time and I can't wait to hear her CD. Good for her for not taking the quick, cheap offers. Maybe the real winner tonight was Tamyra, hmm?

    But I still love Fantasia. Ain't many singers who can make Mean Ol' Rgirl snot-nosed out and out cry.
    R(sniffle)girl

  14. #29
    Figure Skating Is A Dangerous Sport Dee4707's Avatar
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    Last night was the first time I got to watch AI and was sitting there in awe of Fantasia and the emotions she brought out in me. She made me think of the old gospel music style and how awe inspiring it can be. I also thought I would purchase a CD of hers and that's the first time I ever even thought of buying an AI CD.

    Dee

  15. #30
    Arm Chair Skate Fan show 42's Avatar
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    I dunno........taking a year off of singing or signing a recording contract to tweak your pipes might be "singing suicide" for Diana. Best to stay in the public eye, record songs suited to her voice, and retain a vocal coach to work with her as she goes along might be the way to go.........42
    Last edited by show 42; 05-26-2004 at 10:07 AM.

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