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2015-16 SOV Tables for Singles and Pairs released
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I can't believe that this misinformation is STILL getting around - but more, that it's you, CSG, peddling it!
Repeat after me folks:
A DOWNGRADED JUMP IS NOT THE SAME AS THE NEXT ROTATION DOWN.
4T<< IS NOT THE SAME AS 3T.
4LZ<< IS NOT THE SAME AS 3LZ.
THEY ARE DIFFERENT JUMPS.
Then, if you don't mind me asking, what's the BV for a 4T<< and 4Lz<<? Because I just checked the 4 CC 2015 protocols where Adam had a 4Lz<< with a BV of 6.0, which is what a 3Lz is worth
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Adam Rippon must be doing the happy dance
He might not be after seeing the lineup for SC.
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He might not be after seeing the lineup for SC.
Shots fired.
He can sneak in for a bronze though... that'd get him off to a better start than the last Grand Prix season.
Edit: Just saw that Nam is also at SC; should be very tough for Adam to get on the podium then.
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Then, if you don't mind me asking, what's the BV for a 4T<< and 4Lz<<?
I just opened the new spreadsheet and got a little confused; they seem to have taken out the columns for < and <<. What is V and V1 and why is V1 only applicable to the flip and Lutz?
When I locate my old SOV sheet (I just did a spring clean on my desk), I will tell you the precise numbers.
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I think the V1 is the value of those jumps that are called as "e" and "<"? And V is just the under-rotated (<) values...
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Thanks
V is for jumps with UR (OR edge call for flip and lutz). As far as I know, V1 is for a jump with UR AND edge call, that's why you only see it in the flip and Lutz.
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V is for when a skater either has a 3F/3Z edge call or an underrotation (30% deduction). If the skater has a 3F/3Z edge call AND an underrotation it's V1 (40% deduction).
For doubles and quads the V1 deduction is less severe, albeit only marginally.
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Yes, they are different jumps in their execution (the downgraded quad has anywhere up to, but not more than, an extra half rotation than a tripl -- and half to 0.75 rotations more would be a UR). But in terms of points, and how the system views the jumps, a 4T<< has the same base value as a 3T, and a 4Z<< has the same base value as a 3Z. Actually, a 4T<< has less inherent value than a 3T because the GOE will definitely be negative -- a quad-turned-triple will still score more points than a downgraded quad.
I don't get why you're accusing me of peddling misinformation. Okay, I said "a 4T<< is considered a 3T", but that was in the same sentence where I said scores would essentially be the same, so it's obvious I meant a 4T<< is considered a 3T in the context of points. I think most people on this forum know the difference between a downgraded quad and a triple, in terms of execution. I was merely answering the question of how the points would be affected, which I think I did fairly accurately.
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Well, that depends... if his 4Z is << then even the less severe UR rules won't help him.Adam Rippon must be doing the happy dance
Underrotated Quad Loop/Flip/Lutz aren't worth any more than they were before.
In terms of the score, they are still the same. What are you talking about? The only difference is that they don't count as the next jump down in terms of zayak violations.
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You don't seem to understand the problem. Difficult jump combinations should be worth more and this rule update didn't address that at all; it actually made difficult jump combinations LESS worthwhile. Doing a solo 3Lutz and 3Toe+3Toe combo in the SP is now worth just .67 less than doing 3Lutz+3Toe and 3Flip. Doing solo 4Toe and 3Lutz+3Toe is worth more than 4Toe+3Toe and solo 3Lutz.
Doing 3Lutz+3Loop or 4Toe+3Loop (!!!) is now worth only .8 more than doing a 3Toe on the backend. It is not accurate whatsoever to the actual difficulty of those combinations.
Falling on a quad, or any jump, is still worth too much. People are still getting 5.3 points for falling on a Quad Toe and 5.5 for falling on a Quad Sal. The system is still telling skaters that it's better to fall than to skate clean. Why should people be "pleased" that the ISU has yet again failed to understand the sport and only partially fixed a problem? If the engine in your car has two broken parts and you can't drive it, and the mechanic only replaces 1 of those parts, should you suddenly be happy? You're still left with a broken car.
If 4T<< was considered a 3T, it would be subject to the zayak rule and affect other jumps, which, if I'm not mistaken, is not the case.
Yea, I understand the problem: whining whining whining.
(And no, seriously, the whining I saw was not about diffcult combos. It was about combos in general.)
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Just like CanadianSkaterGuy said, he specifically said that the 4T<< and 3T would be the same, in terms of base value.
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When you get cancer and the doctor decides to only treat half of it, we'll see how much you are "whining".
Omg, comparing jumps to cancer now?
Ooookay!Yes, I get that. I meant to point out why Karne would be so annoyed at the his first imprecise statement.
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Yes, definitely.
3Toe+3Toe has now become the standard jump combination for the Ladies SP. It's barely worth the risk to do a harder combination and it will now be extremely rewarding for everyone to just put their axel jump in the first half of the program and a 3Toe+3Toe and solo Triple in the second half. A skater who does 3Lutz+3Toe and 3Flip in the first half of their SP is now only getting 1.63 points more than someone who does 3Toe+3Toe and 3Sal in the second half. Absolutely ridiculous.
Wait, the 3T in this combo is downgraded so it's worth the same as a 2T and the 2T BV didn't change. Wouldn't the combo be worth the same then?
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