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Best Ladies' Flutzes ever?
- Thread starter Blades of Passion
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He does counter rotate. His body is going clockwise as he turns into vaulting position, he's out on the outside edge as he knee bends, and he jumps counterclockwise. Being on the outside edge at the start inherently means there is counter rotation, which is exactly why a flutz is not a flip - despite going onto the inside edge your body was still initially traveling in the opposite direction of the rotation. Whereas in a Lip, the skater's body is going in the direction of the rotation on the setup, even though they push over onto the outside edge as they pick in.
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I think I'd take those borderline flutzes over those weird loop-entry lutz. The latter pretty much forced the outside edge, but it's so damn ugly.
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hmm...goofy, and the 3Toe is underrotated by half a rotation. And also, that's clearly a flutz.
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Adelina didn't flutz, but she didn't really lutz either...
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Takahashi went into the lutz via a CW counter entry. By staying on the outside edge when he stepped up and skated backwards, the direction of curve is already CW. Then he had to vault into the jump and rotate CCW. By definition, that is already a counter rotated jump. The only thing you can say is that the short entry allows the counter rotation to be shorter but that in no way still makes the jump any easier as the momentum prior to the jump is still in a CW curve.
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Yeah, really short, like less than a second. He's on the outside edge for quite literally less than a second, and doesn't deepen his edge at takeoff. Is that really a lutz jump? Is the difficulty and the counter-rotational pull that his leg and body have to endure equal to what, for example, Carolina experiences when she vaults up into the air? I don't think so. That is not really a lutz jump in my book. They could be called the 'lutz-like' jump as opposed to the 'lutz' jump.
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I mean, we have eyes
She didn't hold the outside edge at all and at least the lower half of her blade was on the inside edge by takeoff. She was given benefit of the doubt though (judges don't usually give that to repeat offenders but..obviously).
It's no more under-rotated than Yuna's solo lutz. I don't see the obvious flutz, either. It's hard to tell if she switched over, but she clearly took off from the outside edge.
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Watch the point where their toepicks leave the ice and where they land. There is a big difference.
This sentence literally makes no sense. No, it's not hard to tell if she switched over either (if you look at something other than a shaky fancam). So many screencaps and slo-mo's have been posted already, we can direct you to them if you haven't seen yet. You'll have to seek out an eye doctor as needed on your own, though.
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Please don't start with that "jumps can be landed forward if they took off with 1/4 prerotation." Anyone who watched skating for 5 minutes knows that jumps aren't supposed to be landed forward, and you're being very dishonest by saying 1/4 prerotation and 1/2 rotation at the end (which is the rule) is the same thing as rotating 2 1/4 turns (which is not the rule). I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish by going there again except to get certain fans riled up.
But I do think the actual rotation should account for something. When some skaters seem to be a little bit short of 1/4 turn at the end, it is usually those who have more pre-rotation that get dinged for underrotation, and I think it is very logical, because they indeed underrotating another 1/4 rotation than those who don't have pre-rotation. Saying 'Ahh this is unfair, skater A and B have same underrotation at the end and only A got <!' without considering their actual rotation in the air is no sense IIHO. Then what is the point to do a jump properly without cheating? That's just promoting cheating.
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There's no need to insult. I watched the slo mo. I don't think it's that obvious from the videos. It's hardly a Bobek or Cohen level flutz, if that's what it is. Calls can be missed just like umpires in baseball sometimes call a strike a ball. Yuna got a gift, too, with her solo lutz that got positive GOE including a +3 from one judge even though the jump was at least borderline under-rotated.
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No need to get so upset...if you want to discuss this on an objective, technical scale, that's great and exactly what this thread was created for. Making obnoxious comments when somebody doesn't agree with you? That's getting a little too...ehrm...in-your-face.
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