another sad article about Tonya

Moonpie, Many churches do good work in the prisons. I am more concerned with what makes the prisons the way they are in the first place. It is not those churches that are not Christian. It is the state and country that make such practices legal and accepted.

We do not draw a clear line between first time offenders and repeat offenders. And as you pointed out, we do not do enough to provide people with a path to make a living that does not involve repeated crimes.

At our state women's prison in Niantic, we have had a recent case where the state tried to stop women prisoners from taking a writing class, primarily because the women proved to be good at it. Their writings were collected into a book, and one of the women won a national prize for it. The class was taught by Wally Lamb, 2 of whose books were on Oprah's list. The prison cancelled the course and the state tried to confiscate the prize money the women won. Their works in progress were erased from the computers they had been using. Somehow this destruction made me even sadder than the mercenary activities of the state. Because Wally Lamb has a national readership and a national platform therefore, a state and national outcry arose, and the course was reinstated and the money given back.

But if Wally were not famous, I am sure that nothing would have been done.

And that is mild compared to our tolerance for prisoner violence and guard violence of all types against prisoners.

All the skaters nowadays are making hundreds of thousands because of me and Nancy

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Not exactly the words I would have chosen if I was trying to convince others that:

1. I had nothing to do with the attack on Nancy
2. I was not envious


She's sad. I always wonder why she has never attempted to get an education and try to make a living for herself. Personally, i think it's an addiction to fame.

Another sad article about Tonya

Doris,are you forgetting?Tonya was just about to have a comeback after that ESPN2 competition,where she placed second.She was on Larry King Live,on the Maury Povich show,favorable articles in BOI,IFS and SoS magazines.But she blew it with that hubcab incident that landed her in jail for 3 days.Then there was the lawsuit with her landlady(Tonya lost).Then that DUI where she spent another 8 days in prison.She just can't get her act together.

Tai Babilonia could have had it worse,she had a drinking/medication problem,and tried suicide at one point.But she turned her life around.Tonya just can't get it together,again and again.

What Harding wants is to make tons of money boxing and then retire to live alone with her Persian cat, Smalls. [

"It would be having enough money to go hunting and fishing and go to the big four-wheel-drive mud bogs," she says. "And every once in a while put on a really pretty dress and go to dinner at a place like Applebee's or something."

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How sad...in more ways than one.

No, I'm not forgetting that Tonya threw a hubcap at a boyfriend.

Nor am I forgetting that she saved the life of an elderly women at a fast food restaurant.

I am not saying that Tonya is an angel.
The USFSA has an interesting and elastic memory. Coaches with a history of sexual abuse of students are still coaching if they have strong enough supporters in the org. These days some are punished, but often this is ignored.

I think it would hurt no one to allow Tonya to attend the tests and competitions of her students.

Thanks for your most insightful points, Doris. I never ceased to be amazed at the people who profess an undying love for "God" yet lack the ability to even attempt forgivness for someone who is so obviously damaged from her past. I don't "get" that people were outraged over a mother caught on video a couple of years ago when whaling the crap out of her kid at a WalMart , but when the same thing happened someone like TH years before should just "get over it."

Since many who would judge, may watch Dr. Phil (btw, a real life trained therapist) who almost every time he airs a show on family stresses " What you say in a moment to a child, can scar for a lifetime"

Fortunately for me, I remember the 60 minutes profile of the "making of Tonya Harding" when she was an up an coming skater (In her early teens). The telephone conversation that this young girl had with her mother after a decently skated comptetion was heartbreaking. Here was a talented young woman with enough detraction that comes from the sport herself and she was being berated for the mistake she made from the one person that she needed unconditinal love. I knew then that she might "be something" by watching her skate, but I also knew that she would probably be plagued with problems."

And Tonya's greatest crime? ...Probably not being a "nice girl" who can be a role models for all our daugthers. She isn't one of the "pretty little girl in tiny little boxes" for whom the public yearns in their FEMALE skaters. How dare she WANT to win and express that PUBLICLY????

You can think of what you want of TH, I know I will. In her defense, at least she is attempting to do SOMETHING constructive with her life, even if it's just a chaneling the violence and moral morass that is and has beenTonya's life, at least it's legit and it sounds as if she's working and training to do what she can to make it work.

Whether you view her as "trailer park trash" or a great former skater, I am almost sure of one thing: She, and many others like her, need our support, prayers, and good thoughts if she's ever to change. I believe a great teacher named Jesus once said it best..."to be forgiven, you must forgive" But hey, I guess that's not as much fun as "ripping" on someone who has "brought it all on herself." At the very least, Tonya hasn't had a baby and isn't propogating the cycle of violence and neglect/abuse that she was raised in. Maybe she's a role model after all!

Once again, all this is my opinion...just a few thoughts for someone that does wish Tonya ALL the best....sk8m8

Right on SK8M8. That is a great post.

SK8M8

Fantastic post! ITA!

I think the ban is ridiculous and what's even worse is that she can't skate anywhere (not even with the pros).

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She could skate as a pro... but none of the top named pros want anything to do with her.

yeah, it's a shame that poor sportsmanship doesn't make you friends

as for the Christ thing--if it was pointed at me or not I still have to reply--I'm all for forgiving those who ask for it... however it's always been someone elses fault... if and when Tonya decides that she made choices herself then maybe we can argue the point... a written apology from a LAWYER is not an apology... it's just a nice letter well read by Tonya Harding. I didn't buy it as a 9 year old and I'm not buying it now.

Tonya was an amazing skater and someone I loved watching when I was little. I guess the "good sportsmanship" that dad has always droned on about really stuck because I was little when it happened and I was horrified that one of my favorite skaters had anything to do with it. Whether she planned it or knew about it is up for debate, but she had knowledge of it and did nothing. (for goodness sake let Nancy know if not the authorities!) It benefitted her and she only ratted out the bad guy after it was not beneficial to her.

My little brother was abused for most of his young life and he knows the difference between right and wrong... and he still has to make the choice... not his abusive father who has no ties to him now... not my parents... not me... no the pastor... not his teachers... still he blames everyone for them... does that mean he doesn't get grounded for doing wrong? No.

Is he grounded for life? No, but he has to build up trust before he can have the same privileges before. IF that's also cruel and unusual punishment then I went through the same thing and omg my life was so horrible so I should be allowed to say and do whatever I feel is ok because I was abused. Abuse does not negate poor decisions. If anything I would hope that she would learn how to be a better person. Again I was never in that sort of situation... but before you go throwing darts at the USFSA... they have a sport to uphold... Tonya didn't skate well in 94 after everything... and she really hasn't been in the best skating shape. She blames not being allowed to skate in competitions. Again, it's not her fault it's someone elses. However I don't think the hubccap thing had anything to do with how the USFSA dealt with her... I think it would have happened anyway. The whack was enough bad press for US figure skating... I think they were worried she'd continue.


You're RIGHT when it comes to the coaches who sexually abuse their pupils... and it isn't just local coaches it's top name coaches as well. They should be prosecuted and thrown in jail for life... that's how I'd deal with it if I were running the country... and I'm not going to claim to know how/who all have been conviected/sentenced... I'd like to hope that any convicted predator would not be allowed to coach... but then again if the parents know of the coaches conviction and still let their kids be coached then shame on the parents as well.

Well Tonichelle:
In terms of the pros not wanting to skate with Tonya, who are they to impose this limitation on her? I'm sure there are lots of people who prefer not to work with people with a criminal record, so I guess it's okay not to allow prisoners who have served their time to re-enter society (NOT!). I don't think that it's right at all that she has been essentially shut out from professional skating. Mike Tyson raped a woman and bit a piece of a man's ear off in the ring yet he is allowed to fight. Why can't Tonya do what she does best and who is anyone to pass judgment on her? Tonya's bad sportmanship was directed toward Nancy, not everyone else in the pro circuit. In that Tom Collins picture book on COI, Tom said that Tonya was quiet on tour and pretty much kept to herself and didn't cause trouble. We also don't know the true circumstances of the incident involving Nancy and the extent of Tonya's involvement in it. Even if she were involved in it, I think she had paid the price for it in spades.

As for citing the incidents involving the hubcap and the landlord, why on earth would anyone use them against her in terms of not permitting her to skate? So what that she didn't have the best choice in men and couldn't pay her rent. You don't know what kind of relationship she had with that guy and from the sounds of it, he sounded like a real winner. Tonya won't be the first woman ever to throw a drunken fit in a trailer park and she certainly won't be the last.

Anyway, I think she should be allowed to skate.

Tonya is allowed to skate professionally, but no big name pro tours want to sign her up, and some pros don't want to skate with her. It's their right to not want to sign her or want to skate with her.

I believe that Tonya committed a crime, and not just the one she was penalized for. The FBI/authorities at that time said MANY times that they had PROOF that Tonya was involved in the whole Kerrigan plot from the beginning. Tonya cut a deal to avoid being charged with more serious crimes and end up with serious jail time. You don't accept a plea bargain if you are innocent and have irrefutable proof of your innocence. Tonya cut a deal to get the smallest penalty possible and to help the authorities nail the bigger fish, the men who actually committed the act.

No-one is stopping Tonya from skating. She could go to practically any rink and if she has the money for ice time, she can skate. Its just that Tonya can't just skate--she has to be FAMOUS and be a star and make lots of money from it or she's not satisfied. Tonya paid her penalty, and nothing is stopping her from making a living, possibly going back to school, doing any number of things that would allow her to live reasonably comfortably. The problem is that Tonya refuses to accept any possibility of any career that doesn't involve her being in the public eye and being a "star" and making tons of money. Do you think every skater in the world who won medals at the National and World level makes millions? Just talk to Caryn Kadavy, Tonia Kwiatkowski, Mark Mitchell, Scott Davis, Amber Corwin to name a few. They may not be millionaires, but they still participate in the sport they love and give their all even though they might not be big stars. Not to mention that they came about all their accomplishments honestly and through hard work.

The saddest part? I think if Tonya had ever just owned up later on to her full involvement in the plot and apologized fully to Nancy and the skating world, she might have had a shot at becoming at least a lower level coach and maybe even having her penalty from USFS reduced or modified in some manner to allow her to do more with skating. But, no, not Tonya, she's just going to bumble and stumble around trying something, ANYTHING to keep herself in the public eye. If boxing doesn't work out, she'll try something else. She is so pathetic it isn't even funny anymore.

The FBI/authorities at that time said MANY times that they had PROOF that Tonya was involved in the whole Kerrigan plot from the beginning.

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In this country, juries and judges determine guilt. The FBI can say anything. [We know the FBI is unfailingly honest ] Talk is cheap. Until evidence is presented in a court of law, it's basically just talk. Tonya has a right to be presumed innocent of crimes other than the one to which she pled guilty .

Yes, SusanBeth, and lawyers cut deals to keep their clients from going down the river, which is exactly what happened with Tonya, the same as with many other criminals who commit serious crimes but only "pay" for smaller ones.

I find it unbelievable at times that there are still people who will defend Tonya and think she should still be allowed to be a USFS skater, but to each their own. At least the skating world only has to deal with media reports of the latest way she makes a horse's behind out of herself, not with her actually trying to be an elite skater anymore.

It takes two sides to make a deal. Believe it or not, I'm not defending Tonya. I am defending a principle of justice in which I passionately believe.

convicts in figure skating

I can't believe it is even an issue with these skaters. Who are they to judge?

The US Congress has how many ex-cons? People who've done prison time, who've had trials...whom many of us voted for...with criminal records...and more marriages than Tonya has had in her life!

It's like the story of the US Representative who is pushing for the "Marriage Act", but has been married four times... I mean, which marriage is he seeking to protect?

Those skaters aren't perfect; I wonder why they're choosing to shun her, when, really, most of them cashed in on her demise--pro skaters weren't making that much, and I remember in 1995, the ISU decided to start giving more prize money to keep skaters eligible...

I'm not saying they should thank her, but even Dick Button says she should be given another chance.

First of all, do any of you know the reason Tonya didn't report to the police when she first learned of her husband's involvement? It wasn't because of a lack of morals. It was because she was scared. Jeff threatened to take her out in the woods and shoot her and bury her body where nobody could find her.

Now, put yourself in Tonya's shoes, you come back from nationals, and find out your husband has been involved in bashing the kneecap of your biggest competition and threatens to kill you if you talk. What would you do? And let's not forget, Jeff had a history of physically abusing Tonya, bashing her face in, throwing her into walls, there were numerous court restraining orders issued to back this up...going by the history Tonya would have been a fool to think these were idle threats.

Secondly, I don't think Tonya would have been a part of the planning. Why would she be? There was no other skater at Nationals who was a serious threat to get on the Olympic team. All Tonya had to do was skate a relatively clean program and she would place no lower than second.

Also, Tonya is not someone who handles pressure well. You all saw how she folded up like a deck of cards at the Olympics. You think she would skate any better knowing her friends took out her biggest competition, worrying if they would get caught by the police...worrying that it would get traced back to her? I don't think so.

I think Tonya is guilty of being ignorant and exercising poor judgment. She probably had a sense that Jeff and his goons were up to something with Nancy with them asking questions about her rink and all, but was so focused on her training that she couldn't put two and two together and think something was up or she did think something was up but was in denial about it actually happening.

You have to wonder about her mindset. She obviously has a really bad self image of herself. Probably thinks she deserves being beaten up, etc. because of the way she was raised and doesn't know how to correct it. Too bad she doesn't know how to change things.

hydroradi-you said: "I think Tonya is guilty of being ignorant and exercising poor judgment. She probably had a sense that Jeff and his goons were up to something with Nancy with them asking questions about her rink and all, but was so focused on her training that she couldn't put two and two together and think something was up or she did think something was up but was in denial about it actually happening."

I think you are forgetting that it was Tonya herself who called the rink to get Nancy's schedule BEFORE the whack. And re: the FBI's "proof", they had napkins that had been used as notepaper in Tonya's handwriting detailing the plot. And originally the plot was to kill Nancy. How can anyone not find it horrorific that someone would even entertain the idea of killing to advance in sports?

Also, the media keeps saying Nancy's knee was hit, when actually it was above the knee. Had the goon hit the agreed-upon body part, Nancy's career probably would have been over. She may have even been crippled. So we are supposed to feel sad that Tonya is barred from USFSA events, but not worry about the fact that her crew was willing to end someone else's career?

However, whether Tonya knew before or not, she is wrong in saying that her actions made millions for the pros. The skaters who went pro after 88 & 92 are among the best freeskaters in history, and 93 was one of the "golden years" of pro skaters. Both Brians, Kurt, Kat, and Kristi were making big bucks before the whack.

It's my theory that the Tonya/Nancy freak show hurt pro skating in the long run. Because of it, there was a huge glut of non-credible skating "competitions" that eventually turned the public off. Pro skating now is at its lowest ebb in history. They don't even hold Landover anymore. It may have made some money for slick promoters and some TV networks, but overall, skating wasn't advanced by that episode.

ETA for punctuation