Giving myself the best figure skating resources possible | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Giving myself the best figure skating resources possible

Query

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 28, 2015
I bet a lot of people on this forum started skating as adults - way past age 7. Sure, most of us won't ever compete in the Olympics, nor earn a living at it, nor appear on TV. But that may not be the point. The original poster wants to do something she will enjoy. There isn't any reason the original poster can't enjoy skating and choreography. She said nothing about requiring it to be her sole source of support. Though with a dance background, it is entirely possible she could, as a skating coach. I just happened to see Jaya again a few days ago, and she said it was quite possible.

One of the things I suggested before - exercise choreography (e.g., for an aerobics instructor), is very easy to get into. I took a 5 day class at the University of Maryland, aimed at training group exercise instructors for their program. About one day of the class covered the basic principles of music and choreography - very likely the original poster knows more. My interest was injury prevention, so I didn't bother taking the test (it was mostly a paper test, on very basic exercise physiology) to receive a nationally recognized certification, but the instructor told me that if I was interested, I could easily teach exercise classes there. That was with zero prior background, and I'm not a "real" athlete.

Many other schools (including community colleges) offer similar classes. YMCA/YWCA offer their own classes, though I think their accreditation are only valid within those organizations. Etc.

Some of the most popular exercise classes use dance-style choreography. With the original poster's background in dance and choreography, she could likely get a job in that field after a week's worth of training.

There are zillions of dance studios, who take on dance teachers. There is a lot of turnover, and hence available positions, precisely because it is hard to make a good living it. A large part of what they do seems to be coming up with original choreography sequences. It sounds like she already has a lot of the background for that.

Again, quite a few skating rinks are willing to take reasonably good skaters, and use them to help teach Learn To Skate (or equivalent) classes. Yes, she would need a few years to get that good. (For example, when I checked a fair number of years ago, Mount Vernon Ice Rink, in Virginia, required skaters to be able to do everything in USFSA Basic Skills 1-8.) But once she starts leading classes, she can create choreography for in-class exercises - and create choreography routines for Basic Skills competitions. I assume the same is true for ISI lessons, beyond Free Style 1.

None of these are great ways to make a living, though reasonably successful and dedicated figure skating coaches sometimes can. But she might be able to enjoy doing choreography for all these things, and they would also look good on a resume or college Dance major application - or to people who train choreographers. As long as she has realistic expectations, there is no reason we know of that she can't do choreography at a semi-professional level, as part of these other things.
 
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loopy

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
I bet a lot of people on this forum started skating as adults - way past age 7. Sure, most of us won't ever compete in the Olympics, nor earn a living at it, nor appear on TV. But that may not be the point. The original poster wants to do something she will enjoy. There isn't any reason the original poster can't enjoy skating and choreography. She said nothing about requiring it to be her sole source of support. .

I know I assumed as a full time career with this: "pursuing it as a future career." I apologize if that was not the intent.
 

yuzushenko

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 21, 2014
I was just thinking about how I really want to try choreographing for skating, too! If you make friends with other skaters at the rink who do compete or need to pass their freeskate exam, you can tell them you'd like to choreograph and maybe try to do something small for them? Obviously don't ask if you can choreograph their competition programs because they might want their coach or someone else to do it for them, but if you let them know that it's something you're interested in, you could just test it out and play with it for a while and who knows, maybe they'll end up liking it and asking you to choreograph a program for them.
 

concorde

Medalist
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Around here, most people downgrade (replace doubles with singles) their competitive program for their fs tests. No one has the time or money to create a special program just for testing. I know that some only test but that number is pretty small.

One option where you could help in choreography is holiday shows. Those tend to be for fun only and you could get a feel of what actually works on the ice.

I think a choreographer gets asked what type of costume they envision with the music/program so I think it would also beneficial to figure out what looks good on the ice. I remember once seeing this mother work so hard on this dress I thought looked awful. Once the girl got the dress on the ice, it looked spectacular!
 
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karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
I was just thinking about how I really want to try choreographing for skating, too! If you make friends with other skaters at the rink who do compete or need to pass their freeskate exam, you can tell them you'd like to choreograph and maybe try to do something small for them? Obviously don't ask if you can choreograph their competition programs because they might want their coach or someone else to do it for them, but if you let them know that it's something you're interested in, you could just test it out and play with it for a while and who knows, maybe they'll end up liking it and asking you to choreograph a program for them.

The same question applies: What makes you think you are able to choreograph for other skaters?

Around here, most people downgrade (replace doubles with singles) their competitive program for their fs tests. No one has the time or money to create a special program just for testing. I know that some only test but that number is pretty small.

Agree with this - also, for free skate tests, I know here there are a lot of very strict requirements that the programs have to meet. But I am also taking this road for my next test - making the same skeleton for both programs, with different jump layouts and spin layouts for the test vs competition. And my coach WILL be heavily involved, even though I know the rules inside out, upside down and back to front.
 

Myblade

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
I am kind of a newbie about this choreography business, but at my rink, all the skaters have their coaches choreograph routines for them because their coach knows their style of skating best. In my knowledge, only really really high level skaters hire a choreographer, and those choreographers have A LOT of qualifications.
 

concorde

Medalist
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
That was why I suggest the holiday shows. I know that some coaches are not interested in choreographying these for their skaters so that that would be good starting niche. The programs tend to be really short (~1 min 30 sec) and there are NO required elements. They are just fun programs.
 

yuzushenko

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 21, 2014
The same question applies: What makes you think you are able to choreograph for other skaters?



Agree with this - also, for free skate tests, I know here there are a lot of very strict requirements that the programs have to meet. But I am also taking this road for my next test - making the same skeleton for both programs, with different jump layouts and spin layouts for the test vs competition. And my coach WILL be heavily involved, even though I know the rules inside out, upside down and back to front.

oh well im not serious about it being a career thing, i just meant for fun. chill lol, no need to be so aggressive. you'd be surprised at how many skaters just focus on jumps or spins, without ever delving into the creative side of performance. choreographing for a friend is perfectly fine. you don't need to take yourself seriously to do it, it's just a fun thing to do lol. it's not like they're competing at nationals or anything.
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2017
I'm not a good enough skater or dancer to fully answer your questions.

Most coaches do choreography for their students, though most of that is only seen by a few people.

I don't want to discourage you, but many people find it easy to learn the first few weeks of learn-to-skate lessons to the relatively lax standards enforced in those lessons, but eventually find they lack the athleticism to advance much further. You may want to take a few more sets of lessons, and eventually work with a private coach, to assess your potential to eventually make a living as a coach. As you must know, many people in the dance and skating community think it is a good idea to simultaneously train for other careers, in case you don't make it professionally. And, while you are in training, you need a way to support yourself.

Grass Roots To Champions has a choreography training program. The competition is intended for students of that program. I think all of the choreographers who made it to the competitions I saw were already very accomplished skaters, at a level that it would be hard to become starting at the age of 19, unless you are a very good dancer already - in which case it would still take a fair number of years. Audrey Weisiger, an elite coach, in charge of that program, might be able to give you advice. She is actually quite easy to talk to

If I remember right (I hope I don't have this wrong), Jaya Kanal, who coaches in Maryland, near DC, and is an exceptional skating coach and choreographer, started skating as an adult. But she had a very strong prior background as a professional modern dancer and choreographer. She has also judged for Grass Roots to Champions, and may have taught for the training program (?). If you can afford her, she would be great. She might also be able to offer advice as to whether your goals are realistic. There are also several community college programs in her geographic area which offer (land) dance and dance choreography training, and there is a lot of social dance training available in the area, and many performance dance studios. [Disclosure: I took lessons from Jaya, several years back.]

Hi - I am the above mentioned coach/choreographer. Thanks for the positive comments. However, I started skating at age 6 (not as an adult) and completed Gold Fig & Free by age 18. Sr. Moves 20 years later. I no longer coach or choreograph. Best of luck with your skating.
 

skatespin

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Hello! Just as background, let me say that I've wanted to skate my whole life, but never had the opportunity before to do so. Now at 19 years old, I recently gave myself that opportunity. I've been serious about skating for the last 6 weeks or so, and have been progressing pretty quickly. I'm really passionate about it, and I love it more that I thought I would. Now I'm seriously considering pursuing it as a future career - in choreography. I think this is something I have a lot of potential in.

However, I don't feel like I'm in the right place to do so. I don't live in a skating community, and the rink at which I practice does not inspire me. Sometimes I show up and I feel so out of place being at a skating rink that I just want to go home. I have trouble with my confidence a lot. I have a coach, but he sees me more as a recreational adult skater. I'm afraid to tell him I want to be more serious about the sport because I'm afraid he'll just roll his eyes. Mostly, I just feel stuck with where I am.

If I pursue this, I want to give it everything I have, and that includes where I train. I have this increasing desire to move to a more serious skating rink. I want to train with the best coach I can, someone who knows everything about skating and can give me the best foundation possible. I don't care how far I get with skating - I may never be able to do double jumps - but I want to be able to say that I gave myself the best resources I could and learned as much as I could.

The problem is, I don't know what coach would take me. I'm a 19 year old beginner. I feel like a lot of coaches, especially top coaches, wouldn't take me seriously and think of me as a waste of time. I'm an extremely dedicated and hard-working person. I know what it's like to train many hours a day and practice even when I'm exhausted (I used to be a musician). But I feel like that's not good enough. What do you think? Do you think a top coach who trains from beginners to advanced skaters would take me on as a student? Should I even bother pursuing this? What do I say to these coaches? How do I explain my situation to them?


Also: please tell me how I can be realistic about this. I don't want to get carried away, but I do want to become a choreographer. I hope you can understand where I'm coming from when I say I want to train with a different coach who can help me with that.

It is likely that a rink in your area has a coach that is good, you don't need to get an elite coach and skate at some competitive, elite rink. A coach in your area will most likely take you on as a student, because they need to earn a living, even good coaches usually have time, except for maybe the very elite coaches. If you want them to take you more seriously (as in push you harder, move at a faster pace) I would recommend becoming familiar with the USFSA testing structure and tell them you are interested in testing as high up as you can. Tell them you want to test on the standard track, not the adult track, at 19 that is still feasible and is not completely uncommon. Tests are judged and have to meet a certain standard, so the coach will have to get you skating up to the standard of the specific test in order to put you in and have you pass. They have no age limits. Age does not really matter for tests, age becomes a big thing though for competition.

Let me explain to you why skating at a very competitive place is of no value to you. You likely will be dealing with crowded sessions, of high level skaters who may be very competitive and elitist in attitude. That is not a good practice environment. You are better off at a place with a nice club of skaters of all different ages and levels, taking lessons from an experienced coach at that rink who has experience sending skaters to regionals and taking high level tests. I've been skating for a long time and I've been to many different rinks in different states and they are all different, but I'd just warn you that at your age and level a big fish in small pond environment is going to be a more nurturing, friendly place than if you go to a rink where everyone is a small fish in a large pond.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
It is likely that a rink in your area has a coach that is good, you don't need to get an elite coach and skate at some competitive, elite rink. A coach in your area will most likely take you on as a student, because they need to earn a living, even good coaches usually have time, except for maybe the very elite coaches. If you want them to take you more seriously (as in push you harder, move at a faster pace) I would recommend becoming familiar with the USFSA testing structure and tell them you are interested in testing as high up as you can. Tell them you want to test on the standard track, not the adult track, at 19 that is still feasible and is not completely uncommon. Tests are judged and have to meet a certain standard, so the coach will have to get you skating up to the standard of the specific test in order to put you in and have you pass. They have no age limits. Age does not really matter for tests, age becomes a big thing though for competition.

Let me explain to you why skating at a very competitive place is of no value to you. You likely will be dealing with crowded sessions, of high level skaters who may be very competitive and elitist in attitude. That is not a good practice environment. You are better off at a place with a nice club of skaters of all different ages and levels, taking lessons from an experienced coach at that rink who has experience sending skaters to regionals and taking high level tests. I've been skating for a long time and I've been to many different rinks in different states and they are all different, but I'd just warn you that at your age and level a big fish in small pond environment is going to be a more nurturing, friendly place than if you go to a rink where everyone is a small fish in a large pond.

Actually, as an elite skater and knowing many others, I'm going to disagree with you. I have been all over the US, Canada and World training and competing in my lifetime. Some of the nicest skaters out there are the true elites because they know sacrifice and what it takes to get to any level in this sport. To call us all elitist is wrong. Now those who aren't true elites or want to act like big, hot stuff for lack of better reference terms at local rinks in whatever areas are the ones that act elitist/snotty. Also, at the top rinks in the world, there are elite ice sessions and then sessions for other levels, so being on the ice and dealing with "crowded" doesn't happen.

Now AhhhFancccyyy, that being said, I think you would be better off whatever rink you can start at with a decent coach, if that turns out to be a bigtime well known rink then you are more likely to thrive in that environment than fail and here is why: More access to resources, coaches, choreographers (when needed) all level competitions, ice shows, dance instructors, physio, and personal trainers, skate techs and pros that know what they are doing with figure skates (fitting, sharpening etc). The more resources available the better. There is a support structure among skaters especially at higher levels (unlike what the previous poster was trying to say, I know I've been there and experienced it). Now here's the thing: You will never be an elite skater (that you see on television), but if your coach doesn't see you as more than an adult rec skater then you need to find a coach that will. Get someone that will get you going at a faster and better pace, again you will not be doing triples and so on like the elite skaters. Also, start getting into dance and all the training you would need to even try choreography. Choreography for skating though, is quite different than off-ice/floor choreography and dance, I will be honest and tell you that. There is alot of different adaptations that have to be made, and movement is different in some cases since feet on floor move different than skates on ice. My life is within the sport now at a non-competitive role now and I can tell you off the bat here that it's hard to break into figure skating choreography especially if you want to be well known at it.

I wish you all the luck in the world and if there is anything you need my PM box here is a click away. :agree2:
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
Zombie thread! ZOMBIE THREAD!

The OP is long since gone, presumably because no-one would tell her what she wanted to hear.
 

treesprite

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Zombie thread! ZOMBIE THREAD!

The OP is long since gone, presumably because no-one would tell her what she wanted to hear.

LOL

I'm ticked off because I read all the way up to Jaya posting before I realized it was an old thread.

But then I was happy that I did, because I miss Jaya coaching at the rink where I work/skate (she was one of my top 2 favorites) - I sent her a PM. I hope she looks back at the forum to see it; I have the impressions that she only registered to correct the information she saw.

About the OP though, I will say that it was refreshing to see a late starter thinking to do something with skating without thinking she could be an elite-level competitor.
 
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