Giving myself the best figure skating resources possible

AhhhFancccyyy · Sep 5, 2015

Hello! Just as background, let me say that I've wanted to skate my whole life, but never had the opportunity before to do so. Now at 19 years old, I recently gave myself that opportunity. I've been serious about skating for the last 6 weeks or so, and have been progressing pretty quickly. I'm really passionate about it, and I love it more that I thought I would. Now I'm seriously considering pursuing it as a future career - in choreography. I think this is something I have a lot of potential in.

However, I don't feel like I'm in the right place to do so. I don't live in a skating community, and the rink at which I practice does not inspire me. Sometimes I show up and I feel so out of place being at a skating rink that I just want to go home. I have trouble with my confidence a lot. I have a coach, but he sees me more as a recreational adult skater. I'm afraid to tell him I want to be more serious about the sport because I'm afraid he'll just roll his eyes. Mostly, I just feel stuck with where I am.

If I pursue this, I want to give it everything I have, and that includes where I train. I have this increasing desire to move to a more serious skating rink. I want to train with the best coach I can, someone who knows everything about skating and can give me the best foundation possible. I don't care how far I get with skating - I may never be able to do double jumps - but I want to be able to say that I gave myself the best resources I could and learned as much as I could.

The problem is, I don't know what coach would take me. I'm a 19 year old beginner. I feel like a lot of coaches, especially top coaches, wouldn't take me seriously and think of me as a waste of time. I'm an extremely dedicated and hard-working person. I know what it's like to train many hours a day and practice even when I'm exhausted (I used to be a musician). But I feel like that's not good enough. What do you think? Do you think a top coach who trains from beginners to advanced skaters would take me on as a student? Should I even bother pursuing this? What do I say to these coaches? How do I explain my situation to them?

Also: please tell me how I can be realistic about this. I don't want to get carried away, but I do want to become a choreographer. I hope you can understand where I'm coming from when I say I want to train with a different coach who can help me with that.

karne · Sep 5, 2015

You are 19. Moving for the sole purpose of being close to a skating rink is nonsensical. How exactly do you intend on supporting yourself through this? You will need to consider a job or career first, and skating second.

I know that is a hard truth to hear. I don't want to hear it, either.

At this time, you are making excuses. How is your coach supposed to view you as anything other than a recreational skater if you won't tell him you want to work harder? How can an ice rink not inspire you, if you truly love this sport? There have been plenty of skaters who have been taught by coaches that are not "name" coaches, skated at rinks that are not grand training centres. I skate at one myself - a shabby, run-down, neglected rink that isn't even full size, but that all becomes irrelevant when my blades touch the ice.

I am curious as to why you seem to think, after skating for only six weeks, that a career in skating choreography is viable for you, that you have a lot of potential for it, that it justifies moving. That seems to be getting rather ahead of yourself, don't you think?

Being a choreographer is not likely to be a self-sufficient career, either. Only the big-name, top-level choreographers can do it - your Sandra Bezics, Rohene Wards, Phillips Mills. You could try being a coach/choreographer, but even that is no guarantee of a self-sufficient career. There is simply not a lot of money in skating.

AhhhFancccyyy · Sep 5, 2015

Well, I'm 19 and want to move away. I'm pretty sick of living where I do, because I've lived here all my life. I guess I want a fresh start. Whether I learn to skate or not, I want to move away regardless. But I guess that's irrelevant.

You're right, I am making excuses, but it's because I'm afraid. I have low confidence in myself and basically don't believe my coaches will take me seriously. They probably would if I asked them too. The rink I train at doesn't inspire me mostly because it's located in my home region. I love the rink when I'm there, but there's this nagging desire of wanting to move. I imagine myself skating somewhere new, and that creeps into my head whenever I'm at the rink.

I've been choreographing since I was a kid, and it's a career I've been thinking about for a few years. It's just that I'd never skated so I didn't want to assume it was a career I was truly interested in. Then I skated and realized it was. In this regard, I don't think I'm getting ahead of myself, since it's something I've wanted for a long time.

You're last paragraph, the one about choreography not being a self-sufficient career, is what I'm afraid of. I just love to choreograph and I love to skate. I want to go for it, if I can.

Thanks for being honest with me. I appreciate that.

Tavi... · Sep 5, 2015

Do you know about Grass Roots to Champions, which has an annual choreography contest?

http://grassrootstochampions.com/
I think skating, like music, is a small and somewhat insular world. In order to find out if your dream is realistic, you need to find a way into that world and talk to skating choreographers. I would guess many of them are either former elite skaters or came over from the dance world but perhaps not all of them are. I would also guess that as with being a musician or singer, getting work depends on who you know and paying your dues. But I'm just speculating - you need to talk to people who are actually doing what you want to do, find out how they got there, and what you need to know.

Some things I would suggest: If you're not happy with your coach, you need to find someone else. Are there competitive rinks in your area? If not, have you researched where you might move? Even if you're not with the "top" coach at the rink you will be in a competitive atmosphere, and skaters who compete need programs, so you will probably have the chance to meet choreographers, perhaps assist one, and perhaps eventually start doing programs for some of the younger kids.

I would also suggest finding out if there's a USFS club in your area, becoming a member, and volunteering at competitions. And if you've never studied dance, that might be a good idea too.

Good luck !

mskater93 · Sep 7, 2015

I believe you should look to go to college/university and learn to skate while getting an education and deciding on a self sustaining career while doing choreography as a "hobby" or side job. I have been skating most of my life and I do some choreography for a few other skaters, but there's no way I could afford to give up my "day job" and choreograph/coach and maintain my home, car, and lifestyle. You also really need to be able to skate at better than a beginner level in order to be able to work with skaters who are in need of programs, which is going to take time, no matter how seriously you train and you will need to sustain yourself otherwise.

AhhhFancccyyy · Sep 7, 2015

Thanks for your help! I've never heard of that competition, but it sounds really cool. And I like you're advice about finding a different club with a more competitive atmosphere. That's a good idea.

AhhhFancccyyy · Sep 7, 2015

Yeah, I've been thinking of going to college and learning how to site at the same time. I wouldn't mind having another job and making choreography a side job, as long as I'm able to choreograph

. I think your last part about needing to be better than a beginner level is my main motivation for wanting to move rinks.

loopy · Sep 8, 2015

You might look consider community college first with a dance program. You'll want to learn about as many types of dance and music because that will give you an advantage where you have a disadvantage (only skating a couple years vs people withat many years).

Query · Sep 8, 2015

I'm not a good enough skater or dancer to fully answer your questions.

Most coaches do choreography for their students, though most of that is only seen by a few people.

I don't want to discourage you, but many people find it easy to learn the first few weeks of learn-to-skate lessons to the relatively lax standards enforced in those lessons, but eventually find they lack the athleticism to advance much further. You may want to take a few more sets of lessons, and eventually work with a private coach, to assess your potential to eventually make a living as a coach. As you must know, many people in the dance and skating community think it is a good idea to simultaneously train for other careers, in case you don't make it professionally. And, while you are in training, you need a way to support yourself.

Grass Roots To Champions has a choreography training program. The competition is intended for students of that program. I think all of the choreographers who made it to the competitions I saw were already very accomplished skaters, at a level that it would be hard to become starting at the age of 19, unless you are a very good dancer already - in which case it would still take a fair number of years. Audrey Weisiger, an elite coach, in charge of that program, might be able to give you advice. She is actually quite easy to talk to

If I remember right (I hope I don't have this wrong), Jaya Kanal, who coaches in Maryland, near DC, and is an exceptional skating coach and choreographer, started skating as an adult. But she had a very strong prior background as a professional modern dancer and choreographer. She has also judged for Grass Roots to Champions, and may have taught for the training program (?). If you can afford her, she would be great. She might also be able to offer advice as to whether your goals are realistic. There are also several community college programs in her geographic area which offer (land) dance and dance choreography training, and there is a lot of social dance training available in the area, and many performance dance studios. [Disclosure: I took lessons from Jaya, several years back.]

vlaurend · Sep 8, 2015

If you show that you are willing to work hard, you can find a good coach to take you on. But don't just assume that only a top coach could teach you the basics; there are a lot of coaches who can teach you as much as you are willing and able to learn. I started in group classes at age 27 and never had any trouble getting good coaches to take me on as a private student once I learned the basics. They all need to make a living and only the snobbiest of them won't take adults.

Sadly, it's true that it's practically impossible to make a living as a figure skating choreographer. The person I go to for choreography is the main choreographer for one of the biggest ice shows, but she still needs to make a day-to-day living teaching figure skating and ice dance at a local rink. She is also a former U.S. national champion in ice dance. In order to become a figure skating choreographer, you generally have to be a coach first, or one of the top skaters in the world, known for their choreography (like Jeffrey Buttle or Stephane Lambiel). One of the very few exceptions I know of is Philip Mills, but he was a national level professional ballet dancer and then learned to figure skate. Either way, you need to actually be able to do everything you're telling the skater to do, which not only requires passing all of the moves-in-the-field tests through Senior (that's 8 tests), but also being an expert in dance-type movement, translated to ice. You don't have to be able to do all of the double and triple jumps, but you do need to understand how each one takes off and lands and how it needs to be set up. The thing to keep in mind is this: Most skaters who actually pay for someone other than their coach to do their choreography are pretty advanced. In order to be someone those skaters would go to, you need to be better at moving on the ice than these skaters who have been working at it for 20 hours a week since they were 6 years old. If not, they would just choreograph themselves.

Query · Sep 10, 2015

People are discouraging you here a lot. Sure, almost everything athletic is hard to make a good living at - you can't look at the successes as typical. But if choreography is viewed as more something fun to do on the side than to make a living at, a lot of people do it, in several areas of athletics.

I believe I am correct in saying that most college (land) Dance programs include choreography classes. Maybe your choreography experience would help you get in to such a program?

Another group that does choreography a lot are ballroom and social dance teachers. Some of their students want a choreographed sequence to use, say, at a wedding. (Likewise, if you do ballroom and social dance, you can choreograph your own motions, and perhaps those of your partner.)

If you are a good enough dancer to teach dance, that might be a way to make some money, as you study Dance and skating - though I'm told they mostly get paid substantially less well than skate coaches.

Aerobics instructors often include fun choreography too. Not seen by anyone outside their classes, for the most part, of course, but you can take a week-long class many places that teaches you to become an aerobics instructor, and take a test to get certified. (Classes are sometimes offered at major exercise centers, or at colleges and universities.) That's a lot less training than is needed to become a good enough skater to coach. And you can use your dance training to help create exercise choreography.

Finally, if you become a good enough skater, you can create your own choreography.

dorispulaski · Sep 10, 2015

Another thing-you said you were a musician. Perhaps you could get a start from the music cutting/arranging end of choreography. It is not fair to say you are starting from zero if you have any experience in either music composition or production.

loopy · Sep 10, 2015

"But if choreography is viewed as more something fun to do on the side than to make a living at, a lot of people do it, in several areas of athletics."
"Perhaps you could get a start from the music cutting/arranging end of choreography. It is not fair to say you are starting from zero if you have any experience in either music composition or production."
So true!!!!!

AhhhFancccyyy · Sep 10, 2015

Thank you for the coach recommendation! I've never heard of Jaya Kanal, but her background is really intriguing. And thanks for further expelling the grass roots competition

.

AhhhFancccyyy · Sep 10, 2015

Haha, it's okay. I know people are just trying to be realistic. But thanks for being supportive

. I would take as many choreography as I could if they offered them as part of a dance degree

.

I'm not a good enough dancer to teach dance. I could however teach piano.

AhhhFancccyyy · Sep 10, 2015

I love cutting music! That's a good idea.

gkelly · Sep 11, 2015

If you want to choreograph, on or off ice, take dance classes.

Even if you just want to skate yourself, they will help your skating, in terms of improving fitness and body awareness. Yoga, martial arts, etc., could also have similar benefits.

Seren · Sep 13, 2015

I think the wisest thing is to focus on reality but don't let that get in the way of doing what you enjoy. I thinking dropping everything and moving to Colorado Springs is pretty unrealistic but talking to your coach, changing coaches, or considering other clubs in your area are all good ideas. The reality as well is that skating is expensive, this year I have had to buy new skates (goodbye tax return) and besides that spend $300 a month on skating (ice time and both group and private lessons, I can afford it because I went to college and grad school during the 7 years I took off from skating, but that's still a lot of money). Most of the competitive kids are not paying for this themselves, they either have parents who can afford it or families who make a lot of sacrifices. They are also spending a lot more than $300.

If you are interested in choreography I would suggest doing 2 things, work at your own skating (and do the real world job or school stuff you have to to support it), take classes, work hard and then when you start needing a program let yourself be your own subject. Make your own programs and learn what works and doesn't work that way. Secondly, get involved with your club. By volunteering at events you will meet people who can help you get better. While it's probably not realistic to be Rohene Ward, who says you can't someday be the choreography guru of your local club or city? However it's going to take a lot of work and no one would be willing to have a skater with limited skating experience choreograph for them.

I am happy to hear how much you love skating, I gave it up when I graduated high school and returned to it 7 years later and am better at 27 than I was at 18. Recreational doesn't mean dead and is not mutually exclusive with competitive, watch adult nationals, it's a great example of recreational skaters doing really awesome, challenging things. You can always get better, but it takes time and persistence. If you are willing to work hard, a fancy rink doesn't matter (I skate at an infamous mall rink).

Unfortunately for most of us, the ship to make a career of anything skating related sailed around the age of 7 (besides costumers). That doesn't mean you can't with time find a way to do choreography and even get really good at it, skating can be a lifelong sport. But I think it's probably best to go forward for the love of it rather than with the goal of it being a career.

skatemomoftwo · Sep 14, 2015

Seren said:
I think the wisest thing is to focus on reality but don't let that get in the way of doing what you enjoy. I thinking dropping everything and moving to Colorado Springs is pretty unrealistic but talking to your coach, changing coaches, or considering other clubs in your area are all good ideas. The reality as well is that skating is expensive, this year I have had to buy new skates (goodbye tax return) and besides that spend $300 a month on skating (ice time and both group and private lessons, I can afford it because I went to college and grad school during the 7 years I took off from skating, but that's still a lot of money). Most of the competitive kids are not paying for this themselves, they either have parents who can afford it or families who make a lot of sacrifices. They are also spending a lot more than $300.

If you are interested in choreography I would suggest doing 2 things, work at your own skating (and do the real world job or school stuff you have to to support it), take classes, work hard and then when you start needing a program let yourself be your own subject. Make your own programs and learn what works and doesn't work that way. Secondly, get involved with your club. By volunteering at events you will meet people who can help you get better. While it's probably not realistic to be Rohene Ward, who says you can't someday be the choreography guru of your local club or city? However it's going to take a lot of work and no one would be willing to have a skater with limited skating experience choreograph for them.

I am happy to hear how much you love skating, I gave it up when I graduated high school and returned to it 7 years later and am better at 27 than I was at 18. Recreational doesn't mean dead and is not mutually exclusive with competitive, watch adult nationals, it's a great example of recreational skaters doing really awesome, challenging things. You can always get better, but it takes time and persistence. If you are willing to work hard, a fancy rink doesn't matter (I skate at an infamous mall rink).

Unfortunately for most of us, the ship to make a career of anything skating related sailed around the age of 7 (besides costumers). That doesn't mean you can't with time find a way to do choreography and even get really good at it, skating can be a lifelong sport. But I think it's probably best to go forward for the love of it rather than with the goal of it being a career.

I dont agree with you as far as anything skating related sailing at age 7. I know skaters who started at 18 who have spent the past 12 years doing shows ,both here and in Europe.I know people who started later who do make a living coaching. My own kids did start early but that isnt the case with everyone.

Seren · Sep 16, 2015

I am generally exaggerating to make a point. What I meant was for the nationally competitive kids, Johnny Weir who started late was the exception not the rule. Most highly competitive kids start when they are very young. While you are right in that there are people who start later and make careers of it (and kudos to them!) it is much harder as an adult. Again, it's a matter of time limitations and being able to pay for it.

Giving myself the best figure skating resources possible

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