Chan v. Hanyu: 2015-16
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who knows what we will witness.... but when i say stuff like this... people think i am crazy... like it's a done deal.. there is only ONE figure skater left on the planet... forever...
Perhaps your username leads to this impression
.In all seriousness, of course you are correct that we have no idea what the future will bring. Patrick won three World titles and did not win Olympic gold. Kurt won four World Championships and never won an Olympic medal. Michelle Kwan won five Worlds and did not win the Olympics. In fact, she lost to two teammates who were scarcely on the international map two years prior to the Olympics. After last year's ladies short program, most fans would probably have laid down quite a bit of money that Liza would dominate the Grand Prix this season. I mean--she blew away a huge chunk of the men with her short program. This month, people are arguing about whether she will qualify for the World team. (I think they are underestimating her).
One never knows what the future will hold. (Not even at Japanese Nationals).
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Nah, I don't think Hanyu is the only skater, I just don't think Patrick is the one he has to compete against, at least not right now, with such difference in the BV.
Unless something terrible happens to Hanyu andI'm pretty sure that's not what you want
Unless something terrible happens to Hanyu andI'm pretty sure that's not what you want
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my username….
I chose it, after Patrick's retirement…. at that point, I didn't know he was coming back and for me, I love his skating, despite the fact that he was no longer skating it meant, I will 4ever be a fan of chan… hence the 4everchan… he is the skater who totally redefined my taste in figure skating…. and it was a surprise for me as in all honesty I was a Buttle uber fan….and I didn't like Chan at first, since Buttle was my god (but I never lacked respect for Chan back then as I was excited with what he was about to set up….)
a few years later, I was convinced…. that Chan would be for me, the skater who changed my appreciation for figure skating, his edge work, his choreography, his steps, his interpretation of the music that GOES THROUGH HIS ENTIRE BODY
but now, I know… that having that username means that there are a lot of uberantichan people….. this forum is filled with them… and it's unfortunate… as these people, no matter who they are cheering for aren't able to appreciate unique high quality skating.
Who will win WC 2016? 2017? or OG 2018? We don't know…. It could be Hanyu… but as you point out… it was supposed to be Kurt, Michelle, Patrick or even Stephane in past games… and nope… they haven't won… Kurt never ever even medalled…. So… I wish people remained humble and polite in their assessment of rivalries and future outings.
and you have made a very strong point…. JAPANESE NATIONALS … OMG :shocked:
I read the entry list and i was like… 5-6 of these skaters could be top ten in the world and they only get a couple spots….. WOW!!!!!
I chose it, after Patrick's retirement…. at that point, I didn't know he was coming back and for me, I love his skating, despite the fact that he was no longer skating it meant, I will 4ever be a fan of chan… hence the 4everchan… he is the skater who totally redefined my taste in figure skating…. and it was a surprise for me as in all honesty I was a Buttle uber fan….and I didn't like Chan at first, since Buttle was my god
(but I never lacked respect for Chan back then as I was excited with what he was about to set up….) a few years later, I was convinced…. that Chan would be for me, the skater who changed my appreciation for figure skating, his edge work, his choreography, his steps, his interpretation of the music that GOES THROUGH HIS ENTIRE BODY
but now, I know… that having that username means that there are a lot of uberantichan people….. this forum is filled with them… and it's unfortunate… as these people, no matter who they are cheering for aren't able to appreciate unique high quality skating.
Who will win WC 2016? 2017? or OG 2018? We don't know…. It could be Hanyu… but as you point out… it was supposed to be Kurt, Michelle, Patrick or even Stephane in past games… and nope… they haven't won… Kurt never ever even medalled…. So… I wish people remained humble and polite in their assessment of rivalries and future outings.
and you have made a very strong point…. JAPANESE NATIONALS … OMG :shocked:
I read the entry list and i was like… 5-6 of these skaters could be top ten in the world and they only get a couple spots….. WOW!!!!!
Perhaps your username leads to this impression
In all seriousness, of course you are correct that we have no idea what the future will bring. Patrick won three World titles and did not win Olympic gold. Kurt won four World Championships and never won an Olympic medal. Michelle Kwan won five Worlds and did not win the Olympics. In fact, she lost to two teammates who were scarcely on the international map two years prior to the Olympics. After last year's ladies short program, most fans would probably have laid down quite a bit of money that Liza would dominate the Grand Prix this season. I mean--she blew away a huge chunk of the men with her short program. This month, people are arguing about whether she will qualify for the World team. (I think they are underestimating her).
One never knows what the future will hold. (Not even at Japanese Nationals).
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if by you, you mean me nope… i never wish other skaters to fall… or to get injured…. but a couple pops can change the whole base value deal… or a zayak… or anything…. we have seen it all season… actually chan skated pretty well at GPF…. one popped quad and he was WAY behind with the combo being invalidated…. so the sport has its own rules and sometimes, even someone who skates relatively well finds himself 30 points behind on a couple silly mistakes…
actually, i am wondering, if Chan had scored about 90 points, like he would normally do in the SP, and be in contention for let's say the silver, and won it… if people would say that he is no longer a threat…. the reality is that right now, nobody is really a threat for Yuzu… if he skates like his last two outings… but what we read on this thread is simply dismissive towards one skater (Chan)… instead of PRAISING YUZU… so much negativity…
nope… i never wish other skaters to fall… or to get injured…. but a couple pops can change the whole base value deal… or a zayak… or anything…. we have seen it all season… actually chan skated pretty well at GPF…. one popped quad and he was WAY behind with the combo being invalidated…. so the sport has its own rules and sometimes, even someone who skates relatively well finds himself 30 points behind on a couple silly mistakes… actually, i am wondering, if Chan had scored about 90 points, like he would normally do in the SP, and be in contention for let's say the silver, and won it… if people would say that he is no longer a threat…. the reality is that right now, nobody is really a threat for Yuzu… if he skates like his last two outings… but what we read on this thread is simply dismissive towards one skater (Chan)… instead of PRAISING YUZU… so much negativity…
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if by you, you mean me
actually, i am wondering, if Chan had scored about 90 points, like he would normally do in the SP, and be in contention for let's say the silver, and won it… if people would say that he is no longer a threat…. the reality is that right now, nobody is really a threat for Yuzu… if he skates like his last two outings… but what we read on this thread is simply dismissive towards one skater (Chan)… instead of PRAISING YUZU… so much negativity…
I am not anti-Patrick, on the contrary I admire hos skating too. He was the one I cheered for the most at GPF free event. It's just that as a sport, and under current judging system, the reality is Patrick can not win unless others make mistakes. I mean, it's not even about Hanyu anymore. Even if Patrick skated perfectly like he did at GPF, he still lost to Javi in FS who made a couple of shaky landings, and Uno came pretty close too, and his PCS is sure to rise in the near future. Patrick may excel in skating skills above all others, but even if he scored 10 in SS and let's say Hanyu scored 2(LOL), Hanyu would still win by a comfortable margin if they both skated relatively cleanly.
Pointing out these facts is not the same thing as dismissing him, you know... And the fact is, the only way he will win with the current layout is to skate his best and pray that the others (not just Hanyu...Javi, Denis, Shoma, and even Boyang could win over Patrick if they skated clean by sheer TES) make mistakes.
And maybe it can happen, like you keep pointing out, but it seems kind of gloomy to assume the bad things to happen to any of the skaters.
Because I do like Patrick as a skater and hope he wins another Olympic medal at least, I really do hope he does add that second quad and 3A, if not a 4S. If he does, he will surely be a Olympic champion contender!!
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i think that skaters establish a plan… which goes beyond one season…. if Chan indeed came back for 2018… there is no point for him to go crazy in his first season back…. he needs to rebuild his confidence, and grow his BV gradually… who cares about WC 2016??? look… CHAN won 3 of those… (Hanyu only 1)… but he didn't win the OGGM…. so I think that people need to understand that… it's not a sprint race it's a marathon… no point freaking out about the difference in BV right now…. we will see what happens in the future… yes YUZU is above everyone but Javi is catching up… Jin will grow up in the next few seasons…. and Chan? quite honestly, the plan is probably to include the second 4T at Canadian Nationals, and WC…. and by next year, we will see… He was working on the 4S a while back and said it was quite natural for him… so give him a year and this thread might be more appropriate than ever…
Keep in mind that one can hardly compare the FS scores at GPF with Chan being so far behind… his PCS are usually higher and those of Fernandez and Uno would be lower if Chan had skated after them… so increase his PCS a bit, lower the ones of the other two, and Chan is placing perhaps 2nd in the FS…. or pretty close to it…. it's important to keep all these factors in mind when extrapolating on such scores…
In any case, BV is potential… only potential… A popped jump in the short at worlds by Yuzu, and he could end up like in other competitions in the 7-12 group of skaters, which would harm his PCS as well…. I do not wish this to him, nor to Javi, Denis, Jin and Chan… but IT HAPPENS…. and when it happens, it does hurt a lot…. anyways… this is getting redundant
Keep in mind that one can hardly compare the FS scores at GPF with Chan being so far behind… his PCS are usually higher and those of Fernandez and Uno would be lower if Chan had skated after them… so increase his PCS a bit, lower the ones of the other two, and Chan is placing perhaps 2nd in the FS…. or pretty close to it…. it's important to keep all these factors in mind when extrapolating on such scores…
In any case, BV is potential… only potential… A popped jump in the short at worlds by Yuzu, and he could end up like in other competitions in the 7-12 group of skaters, which would harm his PCS as well…. I do not wish this to him, nor to Javi, Denis, Jin and Chan… but IT HAPPENS…. and when it happens, it does hurt a lot…. anyways… this is getting redundant
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anyways… this is getting redundant
This.
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someone was reading 
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This is getting redundant. Worlds 2016 is a big deal believe it or not. As it will be every single year including the Olympic year. You shouldn't be so dismissive of it as I remember you were of the GPF. A win is a win and Patrick should aim for them all, not just dismiss it as oh he wasn't really trying he's just aiming for the olympics now. I'm sure you don't mean it that way but it comes off as disrespectful to those who actually do win, as if only Patrick was trying he would have won.
Yuzu the strategist!! A successful stormy and lonely decision has just become the CC golden boys SP Layout, that’s cool!
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And you'll hear people saying Daisuke should have won for one and Denis should have won for the other. So I really don't think flashing around WC's says much of anything. In the world of skating it's "what have you done for me lately?" Yuzu's an Olympic Champion (what Chan still wants to be regardless of how many WCs he has) and though he's won everything, we still see him crying for winning another GPF. And really the GPF may end up being a better skated event than Worlds. And I'm actually going to BE at worlds. I'm a little jealous of the GPF people.
Yuzu the strategist!! A successful stormy and lonely decision has just become the CC golden boys SP Layout, that’s cool!
Someone's thrown down the gauntlet. At this rate if you don't have 2 reliable quad jumps and you're against someone who can get the PCS and Javi or Yuzu, you'll REALLY be chasing going into the LP now.
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I think you are living in the past. I do not see any "uberantiChan" posts on this thread at all. Some people are saying that Hanyu has taken the lead and that they doubt that Chan will be able to catch up. OK, whatever. Only time will tell.
Back in the day there really were skating fans that posted mean things about Patrick because they blamed him (irrationally) for the fact that the IJS allows skaters to win competitions even if their performances are marred with falls. That was back when Mao fans and Yuna fans enjoyed "hating" on each other, for nationalistic reasons. Yawn.
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Isn't this accurate for any sport, not just figure skating? If you're active your goal should always be the win in the present competition, especially if you've been a champion in the past. It's not wrong to have a long term plan, and look to the next Olympics. But still, there is so much that can happen. And you have to think about your reputation. I think that even with his superior skating skills, Patrick Chan knows it is not getting easier. He was already beaten by a less than stellar performance from Yuzuru in Sochi. But Yuzuru gets older, stronger physically and mentally and still will be a young man in the next Olympics. And Patrick Chan has to be careful about the way he presents himself as there is a such a thing as reputation judging, we all know that. While that helped him in the past (see his "controversial"wins) I think that by now he has to be careful to not have that many more SP's as the one at TEB and GPF.
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Segue-ing back to the topic, what choices and changes do any of you think Patrick will make for the rest of the season, especially in the SP. Should he go back to a previous program?
Yuzuru will, I think continue to up his technical content if he can. He surely noticed Boyang Jin's 4Lz! Will he try one at Japanese Nationals?
Yuzuru will, I think continue to up his technical content if he can. He surely noticed Boyang Jin's 4Lz! Will he try one at Japanese Nationals?
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Yuzu said he'd not try the 4Loop yet as he doesn't have high enough consistency. Maybe next season.
He's landed the 4lz only once so he's not going to put that in for sure.
Will Chan add something at his Nationals? Like add a second quad or another 3A? It's a pretty low-risk time to do it, and will give some time before 4CC and Worlds.
Patrick must do something for Worlds not to close the gap to Hanyu but right now to not let Fernandez run away from him too :confused2:
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http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?56373-2015-2016-Men-s-Power-Rankings
This thread has run its course. Conversation about both Patrick's and Yuzuru's seasons, as well as that of the other men, should continue in the Men's Power Ranking thread, linked above.
This thread has run its course. Conversation about both Patrick's and Yuzuru's seasons, as well as that of the other men, should continue in the Men's Power Ranking thread, linked above.
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