Hating the Ice fly.. Looking for advice

Dutchie · Oct 9, 2015

Hey guys, I'm looking for some advice. I recently purchased a pair of Ice Flies with MK professional blades and no matter how tight I tie them, I can't seem to get them tight enough. I laced them according to EDEA's standards, and the boot itself is the right size for my foot but somehow I always have extra space around the top of the boot. The tongue is way too flexible for me and i'm always leaning too far forward on jump landings. This has been a disaster for my jumps because I don't trust the skate to support me when coming down for a landing. I also can't seem to find the right sweet spot in my spins because my leg is going from side to side in the boot.

I know this is not normal but the problem is that I am an American currently living in the Netherlands and here we don't have professional fitters or many options. Risport and EDEA seem to be the only brands they carry and I don't know what I can do after I have paid 600 euros for what I thought would be a good option for me as a former competitor and now an adult who is out of shape and looking to get my skills back.

I'm posting here in the hopes that some of you may have come across this same problem and found a way to make the skate tighter somehow. In the Netherlands, Rinks are only open from Oct-March so I'm working on limited time which means finding another pair for this season isn't really an option for me. Is there anything I can do? Maybe new laces? or a new lacing technique? Duct tape? anything? Really appreciate any help you guys can provide.

uhh · Oct 9, 2015

How long have you been skating in the Ice Flys & what were you using before? Edea's in general have more room at the top of the boot than other more traditional brands, and it took me a good couple of months to get completely used to it when I switched from Graf to Edea.

From what you say about the side to side movement on spins, I wold guess that either you aren't lacing it tight enough around the instep - it's more important to be really tight here than around the ankle & top of the boot - or that you are in the wrong size.

Dutchie · Oct 9, 2015

Thanks for your reply. To answer your questions, I haven't been in them long, less than 2 months. And I had custom Klingbeils before this and unfortunately the new Avanta company doesn't supply here in Europe or else I would have purchased from them. Perhaps I'm just not use to the ice flies yet? But I feel really shaky and can't hold an edge long because my balance seems off due to the boot not being tight enough. It fits really well around my foot and heel, it's only above my ankle where I seem to have too much room. If I tie the instep really tight, I loose circulation and my foot falls asleep. Currently I seem to be retying every 10 minutes or so which is driving me crazy. Have anybody else found ways of making the top of the boot tighter?

vlaurend · Oct 9, 2015

I had the exact same problem you're having: wobbly in the ankles but cut off the circulation in my feet if I tied them tighter in the instep. It did help somewhat to get them stretched in the front so that I could tie them tighter around the instep without my circulation being cut off. The thing I didn't try--but probably should have--is spot heat molding the boots around the ankle bones with a hairdryer. By that point, I had already been told they were half a size too small for me and that the insufficient "depth" of the boot was the problem due to my high instep, so I just sold them. Incidentally, I tried on my friend's Ice Flies (which were the size I were supposed to wear) and even though they didn't cut off the circulation in my feet, they still felt wobbly in the ankles side-to-side. It took so much effort to stay on top of my blades as I was stroking and not flip over to an inside edge or outside edge. My friend has the same size and shape feet as mine and we skate at the same level (passed Adult Gold/Juvenile FS and working on Novice MIF), but she said she didn't have that problem. I still can't figure it out! The one thing I miss is the ability to point my toes in the Ice Flies. The forward ankle bend didn't bother me, either. The range of motion in the ankle--flexing and pointing--is what gives skaters more height on their jump takeoffs in those boots.

Babbette1 · Oct 9, 2015

You could try a lace bite pad behind the boot tongue for the tongue issue. (I make mine out of the footbed of men's gel work boot insoles, and my coach makes hers out of pieces of yoga mats, I've also seen lambswool and pieces of leather.) You could also try a gel tube.
Also, you can take foam insoles and put them under the insole of your boot. This will push your foot up into the boot. You may need to cut them in pieces to make a better fit. Here's my insoles for my right boot, before I sent it back to Harlick's to be rebuilt.

christy · Oct 9, 2015

I had a problem with my boots feeling a bit loose so tried the Edea Lace Strap. It did seem to help a bit, but I do find it's a pain to put it on, and I'm guessing it will stretch and become less effective over time.

Query · Oct 9, 2015

The instructions at http://ice.edeaskates.com/en/skaters-tips/ show that you should lace it by running the lace from the outside to the inside - whereas most people do the opposite. That tends to lock the lace in place, so if you let go of the lace as you go from one layer to the next, it doesn't slip back. Of course it makes it harder to loosen the lace too.

A "lace hook" (also called a lace puller) (look at eBay) can be used to pull laces much tighter than you can by hand.

It is very important that after you tighten a lace, with your hand or with a lace puller, you put your finger over the hole so it can't slip back until you tighten up the next level. It is also important that you pull the laces horizontally across each hook level as tight as you can to make it tighter.

I don't have Edea boots, but a lot of people have claimed that you need much tighter lacing with Edea boots, because they are much stiffer.

I would also assume that heat molding would help a lot - but heat molding Edea boots is a specialty action, done by a small number of expertly trained Edea dealers and distributers, which is a lot different from heat molding leather boots. As with any boot, if you heat-mold at too high a temperature, you may damage the boot. In particular, it is said that standard oven molding, as done with most high level figure and hockey boots, will destroy the boots.

I bet if you slip a Silipose cushioned sleeve around the top of your feet, that would take up space in the top of the uppers - maybe not as good as heat molding, but effective. Perhaps you can do the same with thick ski socks, if you cut off the bottoms to produce a top sleeve. Another method would be to stick adhesive foam (say, multiple layers of moleskin) to the top insides of the boots, again to take up space.

Good luck!

concorde · Oct 10, 2015

From those that wear Edeas, I have heard that not getting them to lace tight enough is a common problem (especially on the bigger jumps.)
Some duct tape them tighter. Some add a Velcro strap around the "mouth" of the boot to tighten them.
Because of this issue, almost all switch to another brand after that first pair.

Dutchie · Oct 10, 2015

Thank you all for your helpful suggestions! I will do my best to pad up the inside of the boot to create less space but it's bad enough that I am now seriously considering buying a new boot (either Risport or Graf since they are the only other options here). I don't want to risk injury and my skills are not getting any better if I can't trust the boot to support me. That's how bad habits are formed so perhaps losing money on a new pair may end up saving money in the long run.

Vlaurend, Do you mind sharing which boots you changed into?

tstop4me · Oct 11, 2015

I have no experience with Edeas. But before you chuck them at great loss of euros, here's a simple trick you might want to try. If the issue is achieving differential lacing tension (tighter on one portion of the boot, looser on another portion of the boot), try using two short laces instead of one long lace. The first lace is threaded in the holes along the instep; the second lace is threaded in the holes (and hooks) along the ankle. You can then tighten and tie the two laces independently. Play around with different hole positions where to stop the first lace and start the second lace. This won't work on all boots; depends on the number of holes and hooks and the spacing and placement of the holes and hooks. In particular, not sure whether it's feasible on Edeas, which have an unusual hole and hook pattern. But it's relatively inexpensive and simple to try, before you resort to more expensive and drastic measures.

I used this trick when I previously skated on Riedell Royals (oldies, but goodies, no longer made). I had the opposite problem as you. With a single long lace, if the tension was tight enough along the instep, it was too tight along the ankle, not enough flex. Some people use a "surgeon's knot", in which they lace up tightly along the instep, loop the laces around each other a couple of times (sort of like a twist tie), and then lace along the ankle more loosely. But during the course of a session, the loose tension along the ankle would eventually work down to the instep, and I would have to re-lace (I hate re-lacing!). With two short laces, I never had to re-lace. I now skate with Jackson Elites and no longer need two short laces.

vlaurend · Oct 12, 2015

Dutchie said:
Thank you all for your helpful suggestions! I will do my best to pad up the inside of the boot to create less space but it's bad enough that I am now seriously considering buying a new boot (either Risport or Graf since they are the only other options here). I don't want to risk injury and my skills are not getting any better if I can't trust the boot to support me. That's how bad habits are formed so perhaps losing money on a new pair may end up saving money in the long run.

Vlaurend, Do you mind sharing which boots you changed into?

I bought Graf Galaxy boots but I've only worn them a few times so far. If you like a REALLY STIFF tongue, you should love them, LOL! Me, I find the tongue too thick and stiff. I actually had to get the tongue punched out so it wouldn't press onto the bone at the top of my instep. They are also a little narrow for me in the ball of the foot (I got B width, but my feet are really closer to C and I have high insteps). If I had narrower feet or lower insteps I'm sure I would like them better. The one thing I have to say for them is that they feel more like normal boots. They will hug your ankle. Also, they are almost as lightweight as the Edeas.

skatemomoftwo · Oct 15, 2015

concorde said:
From those that wear Edeas, I have heard that not getting them to lace tight enough is a common problem (especially on the bigger jumps.)
Some duct tape them tighter. Some add a Velcro strap around the "mouth" of the boot to tighten them.
Because of this issue, almost all switch to another brand after that first pair.

Dont think that is true at all. I see them wearing them at comps we are at and its been way past their first pair.
They are like every other boot great for some, not a good fit for others.

vlaurend · Oct 16, 2015

skatemomoftwo said:
Dont think that is true at all. I see them wearing them at comps we are at and its been way past their first pair.
They are like every other boot great for some, not a good fit for others.

Agreed. For some of us, they feel too wobbly in the ankles. For others, they feel perfect. I have several friends who love their Edeas and a number of skaters at my rink have already gone through several pairs of them and keep getting them again (including Gracie Gold and her sister).

sk8forlife · Oct 26, 2015

Edea boots are designed to flex at the top. The tongue is not as padded as other brands, and this allows for forward and backward movement. It is certainly not a boot for everyone, and skaters who prefer a tighter "wrap" around the ankle area do not like the Ice Fly boot. Another alternative is the Edea Concerto. Same stiffness for jumps as the Ice Fly, but more traditional styling. Again, the boot design for all of the Edea boots is to allow for flex forward and back. Coming from Klingbeil boots, you may prefer a Jackson or SP Teri brand for their traditional styling and fit.

vlaurend · Oct 27, 2015

sk8forlife said:
Coming from Klingbeil boots, you may prefer a Jackson or SP Teri brand for their traditional styling and fit.

Per the original post, she is in the Netherlands and would have a difficult time getting SP Teris or Jacksons.

Query · Oct 29, 2015

tstop4me said:
before you chuck them at great loss of euros, here's a simple trick you might want to try...

Another trick: Get extra long laces. Lace and hook them as tight as you can all the way to the top. Then lace them back down around the hooks, creating extra pressure to close the top of the boots.

BTW, is it really true that Avanta won't ship directly to you? You don't have to go to their factory, though I'm sure that is best. They have an elaborate fitting procedure, using a special cast mold, that they trust other podiatrists to do.

And almost any high end custom boot maker has a money back guarantee if you aren't happy. Why not give Avanta a call or email to see if you can deal with them direct, with the help of a podiatrist?

I'm not sure if Edea has a money back guarantee, but it doesn't hurt to call or email the factory, in addition to your dealer, and to the Netherlands distributer. One or another of the above might give you your money back.

yuzushenko · Nov 7, 2015

i have edea chorus and i had the same issue at first...kind of difficult to tie without cutting of circulation. i got edeas because my old skates were wearing down and those old ones were really lacking in ankle support so i was scared of getting an injury.

whenever i would point my toes when doing basic edges, i would feel the skate almost move on my free leg. sort of like when you try to kick your shoe off. tie the inseam really tight. or wear an ankle sleeve to get that area tighter.

unless you're working on a triple axel or a quad, you shouldn't fear that your ice flies are lacking in support. the support is there, but you're probably just not used to having that freedom to bend your ankles and knees that deeply.

if you feel as if your skate is rolling in a certain direction, it might be a blade alignment problem.

Loops · Nov 8, 2015

You know I'm in France and have similar problems getting skates. Lack of knowledge with the skate techs is particularly frustrating, as are the unavailability of customs and the inability to get split widths. However they do seem to be a greater number of brands available here. If you think you might want to try and get a new pair and come to France, PM me I can give you more details about shops I found particularly useful, and those I would avoid.

vlaurend · Nov 9, 2015

yuzushenko said:
unless you're working on a triple axel or a quad, you shouldn't fear that your ice flies are lacking in support. the support is there, but you're probably just not used to having that freedom to bend your ankles and knees that deeply.

I have to say I LOVED the ability to point my toes and bend my ankles so deeply in the Edea Ice Flies. The forward flexibility isn't what made my ankles feel unsupported. The issue was lateral support (side-to-side). It took so much effort to stay on top of my blades instead of falling onto an inside or outside edge just doing regular forward stroking. I wasn't afraid of twisting my ankle or anything; I just didn't think I should have to expend that much effort just staying on top of my blades while skating. I'd rather spend the effort making sure I was staying on an outside edge on my lutz takeoff. The stiffness was there, but they did not fit against the sides of my ankles so the angle of the sideways lean below the ankle was not consistent with the angle of sideways lean above the ankle. It was like skating with my laces coming untied.

Dutchie · Nov 10, 2015

vlaurend said:
I have to say I LOVED the ability to point my toes and bend my ankles so deeply in the Edea Ice Flies. The forward flexibility isn't what made my ankles feel unsupported. The issue was lateral support (side-to-side). It took so much effort to stay on top of my blades instead of falling onto an inside or outside edge just doing regular forward stroking. I wasn't afraid of twisting my ankle or anything; I just didn't think I should have to expend that much effort just staying on top of my blades while skating. I'd rather spend the effort making sure I was staying on an outside edge on my lutz takeoff. The stiffness was there, but they did not fit against the sides of my ankles so the angle of the sideways lean below the ankle was not consistent with the angle of sideways lean above the ankle. It was like skating with my laces coming untied.

This is exactly my problem. I can't seem to stay on top of the blade because my ankles keep wobbling from side to side. Even 3-turns are a struggle which shouldn't be happening as a novice skater. I also noticed when I looked at the EDEAs, that the blades seemed to be mounted more diagonally compared to some other brands. I'm wondering if this is throwing me off too.

Loops, thanks for the suggestion. I will be taking a trip to the US soon and if I don't find something there, France is probably my next best option. If that is case, I will definitely keep you in mind!

Hating the Ice fly.. Looking for advice

Dutchie

uhh

Dutchie

vlaurend

Babbette1

christy

Query

concorde

Dutchie

tstop4me

vlaurend

skatemomoftwo

vlaurend

sk8forlife

vlaurend

Query

yuzushenko

Loops

vlaurend

Dutchie

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