I'm worried 05' Worlds!

[anya_angie]

Icenut, don't worry, it seems to be only teenagers who think that Plushenko didn't deserve the Worlds victory. I lost faith in teens long ago LOL.

LOL Joubert is just Yagudin's Mini-Me. Though I think Mini-Me is better (the original Mini-Me, Dr. Evil's Mini-Me). At least HE had some SUBSTANCE LOL and a mind of his own! I mean good jumps, good spins, but nothing in between. That equals the same as Goebel for me. Though even Joubert's presentation is slightly (by a nose) better.

Someone pry him away from Yagudin, he's starting to get an equally big head (even my friend Marsha who was a HUGE Yags fan has said this! Course she's one of the few fans who can point out flaws in their favorite skaters).

[berthes ghost]

LOL Joubert is just Yagudin's Mini-Me.

This type of lame simplistic bashing is getting very boring very quickly. Anyone who thinks that Jubert is just a Yags clone, but sees Plushy as his own man and not just Urmanov wearing blonde wig is a fool, I don't care how old you are. Let's try to keep the out-of-control hero worship in check, ok?

[anya_angie]

Sorry dear that was not meant to be a bash. Joubert is a great person. He seems incredibly sweet, I adore his personality. And his technique is wonderful. But like I said, there's nothing else to his skating except for his jumps and spins. I guess he's just young. I'll give him time and see what he can do. Hope he skates to something besides soundtracks. (and this is coming from someone who ADORES film scores).

[millyskate]

come on, that's just intellectual dishonesty. The guy has a big margin for improvement, and yes his presentation is not as mature as plushy's, and no he'll never skate to carmen or swan lake (i hope i don't have to eat my words) but he has charisma, presence and personality oozing out of him.
As for the yags resemblance, well all skaters have models and Joubert happens to have the same bodyshape as his and be trained by him. Hence the talk. But there are so many differences in personality and in skating technique that the cloning accusation is just silly. They don't even have the strengths or jumping technique.
Sorry if it seems a bit harsh, but i just don't get the not getting joubert thing. I don't really enjoy Lambiel's skating, not like many others anyway, but I have to admit he has charisma.

[anya_angie]

My analysis on things.

Talent when it comes to art
Plushenko
Weir
Klimkin
Dambier (so balletic it's incredible)
Lambiel
Joubert

Talent in technique
Goebel even though he might be out of the loop now
Klimkin (he can do a 4 salchow out of a reverse bracket turn or something like that, that's admirable, and can spin in both directions)
Plushenko (4t-2loop, 4t-3t-3l, 3a-hl-3fl, 3a-3t-2l, Biellmann, donut)
Joubert
Lambiel
Dambier

Joubert has massive potential, just as much as anyone else there, I never once said that he did not. I am just talking about now. Oh, but if he did my "Sanctuary" program, WATCH OUT PLUSHENKO. Heck, if anyone is able to succeed in doing that program, I feel terribly sorry for their rivals!

FYI people, I'll be posting some new programs in Le Cafe. One in particular would fit Joubert, The Life of a Star.

[millyskate]

The thing is though, presentation does not equal art. It's like the difference between classical music performers, circus performers and people that sing in musicals. There are great perofmers in all categories, and they are called artists in the general sense of the word, but if you're talking Art, it's a different story.
The problem with skating is that some take the view it should have balletic influence, others the view that all you need is a good show. The difference between a symphony orchestra concert and a evening at "les misérables".
The problem then arises that most skating judges are not trained artists . It is potentially quite easy for someone to bluff the judges with a pseudo contemporary program that no one understands but thinks they had better give it a good mark cos it's supposed to be modern art.

[anya_angie]

"Why, then... there is nothing
either good or bad, but thinking makes it so..." William Shakespeare, Hamlet, Act Two, scene two

While reading yesterday I found that quote. I should do well to remember that from now on. My apologies. Perhaps I should stop thinking like a choreographer LOL. A thousand apologies, seriously. I never meant to offend people's taste in art.

Just so you don't think ill of me, I am very proud of the judges for giving Brian the rightful title of European Champion, come now you don't honestly believe that Plushenko deserved to win that competition with the performance he gave. A quad Axel. What a nut for trying that LOL.

[Tonichelle]

Originally posted by icenut84
Why, exactly, does the men's competition "need" Joubert to win? Because he's your favourite? If he skates the best, he deserves to win, of course he does. Like at Europeans, when he skated the best and won. But Plushenko is a better all-around skater with more complexity in his routines and his repertoire, which is why he wins more often. I don't think any competition "needs" someone imparticular to win - apart from the skater who is best on the night.

I think Brian is over-rated and I don't care for Plushenko's style on teh ice...

that being said if it does come down to those two (I'm hoping for Tim but I won't give up on figure skating if he loses--that's assuming he makes it to worlds this coming season :() it better be who ever skates his best. I personally don't see anything new with Joubert's skating... it's just another guy doing Morosov's choreography which just happens to look a lot like Alexei's (could it be because 1 he's using Yags' choreographer and 2 because Joubert finds Alexei to be the best skater and someone to emmulate )

why it's so horrible that the best man of the night and not just your favorite should win is beyond me... it's not the end of the world...

[dmr65]

Originally posted by Tonichelle
I think Brian is over-rated and I don't care for Plushenko's style on teh ice...

that being said if it does come down to those two (I'm hoping for Tim but I won't give up on figure skating if he loses--that's assuming he makes it to worlds this coming season :() it better be who ever skates his best. I personally don't see anything new with Joubert's skating... it's just another guy doing Morosov's choreography which just happens to look a lot like Alexei's (could it be because 1 he's using Yags' choreographer and 2 because Joubert finds Alexei to be the best skater and someone to emmulate )

why it's so horrible that the best man of the night and not just your favorite should win is beyond me... it's not the end of the world...

Even though I'm a Plushy & Yags fan, and enjoy Brian to a certain level...


What you said.. Was well said..
I agree.. It comes down to who skated the most techinically sound, stronger and complicated program..


I had posted on FSU that my failing to enjoy skating lately has nothing to do with the judging system, it's the skaters themselves.. Some of them are cookie cutters or they have nothing original to show us or produce.


I admit to enjoying Sasha C, Johnny W and a few who recently started to become noticed just before '02 Oly and after to arrive... They, to me, are skating with heart and originality.. They are not trying to be someone else who has already preceeded them. I was in love during the Plush Yaguden competitions.. Talk about two skaters fighting it out on the ice with so so much diversity and originality.. Oh, be still my heart! Yags was this strong power skater who would put his heart out in every performance.. Plushenko's heart was there for all to see, but he was the powerful classical graceful skater..


I enjoy Brian J.. I really do.. But, I'm sad that I see no originality in his programs.. He gives me a little bit of what I enjoyed between Yags and Plush, but then, I agree.. I see cookie cutter skating and programs. I don't want to see another Yags.. I want to see Brian J, an original.




P.S Kind on topic and kind of off topic.. But.. Is it me or does it seem some fans are going on who is cute. Sorry, no offense but that is how I'm reading the inbetween the lines posts from all over lately.. Who is cute or pretty should have won... Nothing wrong with liking a skater for being cute or pretty, I do it... But, I try not to base my opinion on who won on looks.. To me, Yags and Plush are no lookers.. Just my opinion.. But I love love love them for their high level individual originality as skaters.



Well, that's my cry..



Denise...

[Zanzibar]

QUOTE from Denise:

"I was in love during the Plush Yaguden competitions.. Talk about two skaters fighting it out on the ice with so so much diversity and originality.. Oh, be still my heart! Yags was this strong power skater who would put his heart out in every performance.. Plushenko's heart was there for all to see, but he was the powerful classical graceful skater..."

Bravo, Denise - well said!

[icenut84]

Originally posted by anya_angie
Just so you don't think ill of me, I am very proud of the judges for giving Brian the rightful title of European Champion, come now you don't honestly believe that Plushenko deserved to win that competition with the performance he gave. A quad Axel. What a nut for trying that LOL.

A quad axel? He didn't try that. He singled his first two 3axel attempts (falling on the first). AFAIK he was just going for 3axel, not quad.

[Ptichka]

Originally posted by icenut84
A quad axel? He didn't try that. He singled his first two 3axel attempts (falling on the first). AFAIK he was just going for 3axel, not quad.

You are correct. Though Plushy wants to master all quads, he never even mentioned quad axel. The most daring jump he ever attempted in competition was a quad lutz.

[Tonichelle]

Denise... I also feel a lot of the "Brian is the BEST SKATER EVER" statements are really saying "Brian's is the HOTTEST skater ever" they're getting looks confused with the athletisism (SP) of the sport

I'm a teen and I don't care for either... I don't think age has anything to do with who likes who.

[berthes ghost]

I also feel a lot of the "Brian is the BEST SKATER EVER" statements

OMG, what board are you reading that at?

[anya_angie]

A quad axel? He didn't try that. He singled his first two 3axel attempts (falling on the first). AFAIK he was just going for 3axel, not quad.

Which interviews did you read from Mishin from Euros? LOL it was all over the place. I don't have the link right now but if asked I will post it.