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Thread: The demise of the Qualifying Round

  1. #1
    Keeper of Michelle's Nose berthes ghost's Avatar
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    The demise of the Qualifying Round

    At the European and Four Continents Figure Skating Championships there will be no qualifying rounds. Therefore the competition will consist of a short program and free skating only. Previously a qualifying round was held if there were more than 31 entries in one discipline.
    Yeah!!!!
    At all ISU Figure Skating Championships in ice dancing up to 30 couples will compete in a single group for the compulsory dance. Previously the couples were divided into two groups if there were more than 25 entries.
    Yeah!!!!
    At the World Junior Figure Skating Championships the qualifying round (if required) will determine the top 30 participants who qualify for the short program but the points awarded in the qualifying round will not be carried forward to the final result.
    Yeah!!!

    Now if only they would smarten-up about senior worlds.

  2. #2
    Yeah! Well its a start. Maybe if they decide that this is working out well then they'll remove it from Big Worlds too.

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    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    There were many proposals (especially from the Russian Federation) to do away with QR. Suggestions included having top 10 Europpeans and 4CC skaters get in automatically, and everyone else to ahve QR that would not count toward the ultimate score.

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    Tripping on the Podium
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    Originally posted by Ptichka
    Suggestions included having top 10 Europpeans and 4CC skaters get in automatically,
    Hmmmm, that would cause many skaters on this half of the globe to think twice about summarily skipping 4CC because it's not an 'important' competition. Too bad it wasn't passed.

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    I don't like the idea of some people having to skate an extra long program and others not having to do it. Even if the scores aren't carried forward, it costs the skater time and energy. ''Big name'' skaters have such a huge advantage under any scoring system. They don't need the free ride. The ISU needs to keep the ''playing field'' level. Everyone should skate the QR or no one should have to do it.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    30 skaters for the final round of LP is more than enough. Thjat means there would 5 groups of 6 skaters. enough.

    There should be some sort of an elimination round. If you don't like the LP then make a suggestion/

    Joe

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    Go NJ Devils
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    Originally posted by Ptichka
    There were many proposals (especially from the Russian Federation) to do away with QR. Suggestions included having top 10 Europpeans and 4CC skaters get in automatically, and everyone else to ahve QR that would not count toward the ultimate score.
    I think this is a great idea. The skaters who wouldn't qualify automatically are often those who don't get to travel or compete much, and I think it is an advantage to them to do a quali round, to get the feel for the ice and how the size affects placement. I don't think it's unfair to ask non-qualifiers to skate an extra program. Many sports have seeds and qualifying rounds.

  8. #8
    Keeper of Michelle's Nose berthes ghost's Avatar
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    I don't get this "big name skaters have all the advantages" stuff. They don't get excused because they are famous, they get excused because they skated well in other events. If Tugba K wants to be excused from the QR, then she better get her butt in the top 10 at Euros or whatever. What's next "all skaters have to take the gold test every year so that the skaters taking it for the first time aren't at a disadvantage'?

    To me, the SP is the perfect QR. Can she do a combo? Can she do a jump out of steps? Can she do an axel? etc... Now that's a fair way to decide who is more qualified than the others. Also, doing one or two more skaters in a SP isn't going to kill the judges. I'll bet it's a lot easier than judging over 30 extra LPs!

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    I would agree with using the SP in place of a QR. It's just a matter of everyone being treated equally throughout the competition.

    Sometimes I have doubts about figure skating really being a sport and it's not because of the subjective nature of presentation. It's because even most of the fans/officials don't treat it like a sport. Don't runners, tennis players, different sport's teams have to earn their wins at competitions by beating the other competitors? If Joe Somebody Jr won his last 3 races, does it mean that he doesn't have to outrun the other athletes in his next race?

    Of course, the process of getting to competition varies. However, ideally, once the competition begins, every competitor should be treated equally. There shouldn't be this attitude that what happened at the last competition somehow counts at this one. That's not the reality of figure skating, but we don't have to make it even worse by demanding more from certain competitors than others.


    Another point-

    What I said was
    ''Big name'' skaters have such a huge advantage under any scoring system.
    Who is more likely to be held up in spite of mistakes? That's a huge advantage.

  10. #10
    Keeper of Michelle's Nose berthes ghost's Avatar
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    Don't runners, tennis players, different sport's teams have to earn their wins at competitions by beating the other competitors?
    You're confusing genres.

    Runners have heats because it would be physically impossible to have 50 or more runners all on the same track at the same time. Tennis and team sports are 1on1. Just like MK almost always wins her QR, Michael Johnson almost always wins his heat, etc... Justine H-H lost at Roland Garos for example because she was sick, not because her oponant was actually any good.

    Skaters go one at a time. The only reason for a QR is that supposidly it's too difficult for judges to sit through 32 or more SPs at one time. At the Olys they just limit the number of skaters they invite.

    With a judging system favorites will always be held up, QR or no QR.

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    Michael Johnson almost always wins his heat,
    My point is that he doesn't get to skip the heats. He has to earn his wins every step of the way. Past glories mean zip.

    At the Olys they just limit the number of skaters they invite.
    If the judges can't treat each competitor equally, it might be the only fair thing to do. However, I think they could find a way to schedule it. I'm not inclined to accept unfairness to spare the judge's tushies.

    With a judging system favorites will always be held up, QR or no QR.
    I know, that's the reality of the situation. So, do we make it even worse by letting big name skaters skip past part of the competition?

  12. #12
    Keeper of Michelle's Nose berthes ghost's Avatar
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    My point is that he doesn't get to skip the heats. He has to earn his wins every step of the way. Past glories mean zip.
    Not exactly true. IIRC, the runner with the best time from the last race gets the best lane, etc...the runner with the worst time the worst lane, so they do kinda get stuck in a hole.

    Other than that, unless you build a 36 lane wide track, you won't get a situation close to FS.

    What's been happening at Euros, for example, is ridiculous IMHO. If there are 31 skaters, then there is no QR. If there are 32 skaters, than all 32 skaters have to skate an additional LP which counts toward the final score. I don't see how that is fair on any of the skaters in any way, shape or form.

    For example, at 03 Euros Plushy had to skate two programs (7min10sec), with a total of 3 quads to win. At 04 Euros, Jubert had to skate 3 programs (11min40sec) with a total of 5 quads to win. Just because 1 more guy showed up.

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    I don't think it matters if they run at the same time, as long as they have to run the same distance.

    Likewise, the skater's should have to skate each phase of the competition to win. No free rides!

    As far as Euro's, I agree it was ridiculous. I can't imagine how using the SP as the QR is so much more trouble than the way they've been doing it. I am just against making some skaters skate an extra program. It's hardly the most fair solution to the problem.

  14. #14
    Keeper of Michelle's Nose berthes ghost's Avatar
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    Likewise, the skater's should have to skate each phase of the competition to win. No free rides!
    See, I just don't get what the big deal is.

    94 worlds both MK and Bobeck had to do a QR. MK passed, Bobeck failed. 95 worlds, Bobeck had to do the QR, MK didn't. To me, she earned it. In the end, Bobeck did better anyways. I just don't see how this was so unfair.

    It's a nice theory, but in reality I don't see it making any difference.

    Anyways, it's a mute point as the system we're debating doesn't exist. It was just a proposal and it didn't pass. Everyone does the QR at worlds.

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    I just don't like the idea of ''carrying credit'' from one competition to the next. It strikes me as giving the favorites a headstart.

    I hope they eventually ditch the present QR and use the SP. It makes more sense to me.

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