2 Skaters, 1 Coach

Linny · Jun 14, 2004

Why can't more than one skater be attached to the same coach? This came up during the thread about Sarah possibly returning to skating but the verdict seemed to be that she couldn't be with Robin if Sasha was still with Robin.

So, might be that these two individuals (Sarah and Sasha) wouldn't play well off each other. Might be that Robin wouldn't want to spend that much time at the rink or traveling the world. Could also be that Robin only has one spare bedroom <snort>.

But, for normal coach-student relationships, why couldn't a single coach work for several elite students? Why does a coach have to vest all their eggs in one basket, so to speak?

Linny

Tonichelle · Jun 14, 2004

Sarah and Sasha are competitors... and with Michelle practically a shoo in for a spot... and Jenny and AP coming into their own... and there's always Angela as the dark horse Sasha and Sarah have to both be at teh top of their game. Scott Hamilton left Carlo Fassi after Carlo took on his main rival because it was just too hard on everyone.

Not only that but Robin seems to only want to work with one skater at a time.

Joesitz (RIP) · Jun 14, 2004

I don't think it is a problem since they won't see each other while being coached. I think a good coach could handle it without any prejudices. He/she has to produce a contender. That is all. the rest is up to the skater.

However, the skater's personality may not want to have a competitor being trained by his/her coach. So, the skater leaves or stays. Up to the skater.

Joe

Sylvia · Jun 14, 2004

There's quite a lot of travel involved with the top elite skaters, so it would be logistically very difficult to have just one coach be the primary coach for 2 elite skaters. That's why many of the top coaches have assistants (for example, Frank Carroll and Ken Congemi share coaching duties for Lysacek, Kahle and now Kirk) and skaters have secondary coaches that can travel to internationals throughout the season.

Ptichka · Jun 14, 2004

Linny, it has been known to happen, but it invariably creates tension. It's hard for skaters to truly trust that their coach has their best interest at heart when they could potentially want someone else to win.

As I've said on that thead, there are exceptions.

The three Chinese pairs are all coached by Bin Yao. However, I don't think the coach and the federation would allow P&T to surpass S&Z even if they could at this stage.

In Russia, Vika Volchkova, Elena Sokolova, Julia Soldatova, and Kristina Oblasova all train with Kudryavtsevs, as does Klimkin. They do have it easier because it's actually a two-person team, and while Victor is the headliner, it is Marina who works with, for example, Volchkova. Nonetheless, there are certrainly tensions in that group.

The one coach who has been able to successfully work with several elite skaters is Moskvina. However, similarly to Kudryavtsevs, it is actually a two-person team; while Tamara is the headliner, her husband Igor works with several teams (he was the one who did most of the work with Ina & Zimmerman while Tamara concentrated on Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze). She coached Mishkitenok & Dmitriev at the same time as Betchke & Petrov, Kazakova & Dmitriev at the same time as Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze, etc. I am not sure if this caused tensions.

We all know that one reason Yagudin left Mishin is because he felt Mishin was paying more attention to Plushenko. In fact, according to Mishin's wife (who is also a coach), Mishin can only concentrate on Plushy right now. She is the one who ends up working with Basova and Lutai.

The one I am very interested in is Boucher-Zazoui. Dubreuil & Lauzon and Delobel & Schoenfelder certainly aim for the same spots. And she has a lot of other teams as well.

Antilles · Jun 14, 2004

Tarasova has coached many skaters at the same time. I believe Linichuk and Karposonov had a number of elite dance teams at the same time. Morozov usually has a couple of dance teams too. It can be done. It probably depends on all of the personalities involved. Some people work better with competition, some don't.

I believe I heard that Boucher-Zazoui caught some flack from the French federation for coaching D&L, when she also had the French champions who are neck and neck with them in competitions. Although, I believe D&S only started beating D&L after they acquired the same coach.

Lynn226 · Jun 14, 2004

IIRC, Caryn Kadavy once said that she felt that she had to compete with Jill Trenary for Carlo Fassi's time. It's too bad that Caryn didn't have a fully devoted coach (if true), perhaps she could have won Nats. I enjoy her skating.

IDLERACER · Jun 14, 2004

Sarah and Sasha? Naw, it's too confusing coaching a righty and a lefty. This is probably why Callaghan was having trouble juggling Kirk and Eldredge.

Ladskater · Jun 14, 2004

Linny:

Why can't more than one skater be attached to the same coach?

They often are!! However, there are some circumstances where a coach may limit his/her schedule - in order to be available.

Our skaters here in Canada often end up being coached by the same coach as a fellow teammate. It creates some "friendly" rivalry.

Really there is no hard and fast rule about it.

berthes ghost · Jun 15, 2004

I don't think it is a problem since they won't see each other while being coached. I think a good coach could handle it without any prejudices. He/she has to produce a contender. That is all. the rest is up to the skater.

I think that you're living in a dream world here Joe.

chuckm · Jun 15, 2004

I think one of the main reasons why the Cohens went to Robin Wagner was the fact that she didn't have any students, and prefers to concentrate on one skater at a time. That is undeniably an ideal arrangement, although not one that many skaters enjoy.

A situation such as the Russian ladies under Kudryasev is bound to cause friction, jealousy and dissension among the ladies. And as others have pointed out, there is a pecking order when a coach has multiple teams (e.g. Bao in China, or Moskvina in Russia), and teams #2 and #3 will not be allowed to surpass team #1 until team #1 leaves eligible skating.

Joesitz (RIP) · Jun 15, 2004

berthes ghost said:
I think that you're living in a dream world here Joe.

BG - I don't think I'm dreaming. The coach's job is to produce a contender. If he produces a winner, kudos to him, but there are many good coaches - not all of them that can produce a winner at any given competition but they can produce contenders.

An example of Trennary/Kadavy given on the Board, if true, may show that a coach has a favorite . In such a case, the unfavorite may want to leave or be satisfied that the coach is doing him/her well in spite of his prejudice.

I still think that two contenders with the same coach may produce a psychological problem for one and that skater should leave, or be more determined.

What about Sandhu/Buttle. Do they not have the same coach nowadays?

Carroll has Tim and Evan. Is there a problem? Are there any other cases?

Joe

northguy · Jun 15, 2004

Joesitz said:
What about Sandhu/Buttle. Do they not have the same coach nowadays?

No. Sandhu trains in Vancouver area with Joanne McLeod and Buttle trains with Lee Barkell and Doug Leigh at Barrie, in Toronto area. OTOH, Ben Ferreira also trains in Barrie. (I read somewhere that Buttle might also work with Arutunian but it is not mentionned in his official bio on SC website...???)

In Canada, there are many top athletes training under the same coach. One of the most obvious example might be in pairs with coach Richard Gauthier. This year, 3 of the 6 pairs on the National Team train with him. Two of them have GP assignments and he also trains Z/S from Poland. At Skate Canada, he will have to coach 3 pairs and 2 will be in Japan.

euterpe · Jun 15, 2004

I don't see a conflict problem with Goebel and Lysacek, at least not yet. Tim is an elite skater who has already won World and Olympic medals and Evan is still a developing skater just out of the Junior ranks, with no quad. They are at different levels competitively (that is, if Tim has resolved his physical problem and has gotten his jumps back). Evan won a medal at 4CC, but the competition there isn't anywhere near on the same level as at Worlds. If Evan had gone to Worlds 2004, he'd probably be down in the mid-teens with Matt Savoie.

Ptichka · Jun 15, 2004

Antilles said:
Tarasova has coached many skaters at the same time. I believe Linichuk and Karposonov had a number of elite dance teams at the same time. Morozov usually has a couple of dance teams too. It can be done. It probably depends on all of the personalities involved. Some people work better with competition, some don't.

Morozov coached (as opposed to choreographs) for Bourne & Kraatz, Grushina & Goncharov, and Lang & Tchernyshev. That is the pecking order.

Tarasova is an interesting case. While she consults and choreographs for several teams, she is never a full-time coach of more than one elite team. For example, she took on Chait & Sakhnovsky when Grushina & Goncharov left. In interviews, she talks about her only attempt to coach to elite teams simoltanuously -- Moiseeva & Minenkov and Bestemianov & Bukin. The former ended up the loosers.

Finally, Lininchuk. She is an excellent example of how things should not be done. I still believe that Romanova & Yaroshenko could have achieved much more than they did had they not been sacrificed first to Gretchuk & Platov and Krylova & partners, and then to Lobacheva & Averbukh.

thisthingcalledlove · Jun 19, 2004

Ptichka said:
Morozov coached (as opposed to choreographs) for Bourne & Kraatz, Grushina & Goncharov, and Lang & Tchernyshev. That is the pecking order.

Tarasova is an interesting case. While she consults and choreographs for several teams, she is never a full-time coach of more than one elite team. For example, she took on Chait & Sakhnovsky when Grushina & Goncharov left. In interviews, she talks about her only attempt to coach to elite teams simoltanuously -- Moiseeva & Minenkov and Bestemianov & Bukin. The former ended up the loosers.

Finally, Lininchuk. She is an excellent example of how things should not be done. I still believe that Romanova & Yaroshenko could have achieved much more than they did had they not been sacrificed first to Gretchuk & Platov and Krylova & partners, and then to Lobacheva & Averbukh.

Let's not forget Dubova when she was coaching Grischuk/Platov, and Usova/Zhulin.

Tony Wheeler · Jun 19, 2004

northguy said:
(I read somewhere that Buttle might also work with Arutunian but it is not mentionned in his official bio on SC website...???)

Buttle worked with Arutunian for a few weeks this spring but to the best of my knowledge, he had no intention on making a permanent move.

Re: Gauthier, he also has some help. Joannie Rochette's coach, Manon Perron, also works with these pairs teams.

Going back to having the same coaches, not only Buttle & Ferreira, but the 6th place finisher from Nationals, Chris Mabee, also trained at Mariposa up until the end of this season. Hugh Yik, who finished 8th, is also still there IIRC. Of course there are plenty of coaches within Mariposa, but having four of the top eight men from Nationals at one training rink is pretty impressive, and it didn't seem to bother any of the four..

Bynx · Jun 20, 2004

I don't see Robin coaching them both at all?
Didn't I hear that Robin and Sarah weren't really
that close or on speaking terms?

If Sarah decides to compete again she had better
find a coach who will help her fix her jumping technique
because under the new system she'll be at a huge disadvantage.

Ptichka · Jun 21, 2004

thisthingcalledlove said:
Let's not forget Dubova when she was coaching Grischuk/Platov, and Usova/Zhulin.

When Dubova was working with U&Z, she made no secret of having them as her #1 priority. In fact, even though Oksana/Pasha Gretchuk was known to be quite vial in interviews, she talked very calmly of having to leave Dubova since her priority was U&Z. Even she held no grudge against her, she was just stating it as a fact.

soogar · Jun 21, 2004

I thought Pasha was banished by Dubova after it was discovered that she had an affair with Sasha Zhulin. Maya was supposedly Dubova's favorite student and when Pasha interfered with Sasha, she had to go. Platov was quoted that Dubova wanted to pair him up with someone else but he left to skate with Pasha b/c he knew he could win with her.

2 Skaters, 1 Coach

Linny

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Ptichka

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