Under rotation problems

mrrice · Nov 22, 2015

I need someone to help me understand how a skater like the "Old" Ashley, or the "New" Polina, can develop this problem. First of all, I give them credit for landing some of the jumps they've done as I'm positive I would have fallen when I skated. Because I danced before I started skating, I fell over and over because I'd keep my toes pointed, land on my toe pick and fall.

How do these skaters learn to land under rotated jumps and why don't their coaches nip this problem in the bud the moment this bad habit appears??

Myblade · Nov 22, 2015

Let me put my two cents in-

I don't know how to explain how those skaters developed those problems, but I can imagine why those coaches didn't fix it right away.

At most competitions, they use a slow-motion camera and slow down the jump A LOT to see if the skater fully rotated. Some coaches don't have these slow-motion cameras, and usually under rotation isn't that visible to the naked eye, so the coaches might not even know that their skater was under rotating in the first place.

The skaters can land these jumps because of the speed they are using- the blade just quickly turns on the ice, kind of like a spin, instead of turning in the air.

Babbette1 · Nov 22, 2015

You can buy slow motion apps "Coaches Eye" is one for any iphone or ipad. I see coaches use them all the time.

mrrice · Nov 22, 2015

Babbette1 said:
You can buy slow motion apps "Coaches Eye" is one for any iphone or ipad. I see coaches use them all the time.

"Apps" That's so cute...........Honey, I skated in the 80's and I can promise there wasn't an "App" for anything in those days.

You know what my coach had at practice..........Her Big Mouth Screaming........"What was that????? OMG.....Stop, stop, stop. Go Back!!"

The good old days...

mskater93 · Nov 23, 2015

Myblade said:
At most competitions, they use a slow-motion camera and slow down the jump A LOT to see if the skater fully rotated. Some coaches don't have these slow-motion cameras, and usually under rotation isn't that visible to the naked eye, so the coaches might not even know that their skater was under rotating in the first place.

No, just, no. Coaches DO know when their skaters are under-rotating jumps. If it's borderline, he/she can go look at the print on the ice and verify that yes it is/no it isn't. Any coach worth their pay KNOWS how to look for this. A lot of them know their skaters are < but either figure they'll out grow it if they are young and get stronger or the kid will quit before they get too far.

karne · Nov 23, 2015

mskater93 said:
No, just, no. Coaches DO know when their skaters are under-rotating jumps. If it's borderline, he/she can go look at the print on the ice and verify that yes it is/no it isn't. Any coach worth their pay KNOWS how to look for this. A lot of them know their skaters are < but either figure they'll out grow it if they are young and get stronger or the kid will quit before they get too far.

And as well as that, the skater knows too - or should.

I've never understood why some skaters prone to UR look so baffled when the low TES comes up. To me it is painfully obvious when I UR a jump, I don't understand how anyone could not feel that.

concorde · Nov 23, 2015

karne said:
I've never understood why some skaters prone to UR look so baffled when the low TES comes up. To me it is painfully obvious when I UR a jump, I don't understand how anyone could not feel that.

I think is because they are used to getting away with it and are surprised that someone finally called them on it.

mrrice · Nov 23, 2015

concorde said:
I think is because they are used to getting away with it and are surprised that someone finally called them on it.

100% Correct. This is why I'm so baffled by Polina. Even if her coach hasn't told her, she must have listened to the commentators as they ALL talk about it. It would be different if she were at least pretending that she knew she had a problem and that she and her coach were working hard to fix it. In any case. She needs to do something ASAP!

karne · Nov 24, 2015

concorde said:
I think is because they are used to getting away with it and are surprised that someone finally called them on it.

And with that in mind too, I've never understood the mindset of certain fans who want a "soft" technical panel for their skater. Why? It's not making the problem go away, it's only making it worse.

I prefer a strict technical panel. I prefer to be called out on my errors, to be told firmly and squarely that I am doing it wrong. Is this such an unusual mindset?

concorde · Nov 26, 2015

Unless a skater constantly gets called on an jump, I can see why they are not too excited about trying to fix it. Fixing it will take alot of time and if it only sometimes gets called, then my guess is the skater is willing to take the risk. But once a skater has the reputation of being an under-rotater, then I think they have no choice but to fix it.

Fixing an under-rotated jump is not the easy thing. The skater really has only two choices - jump higher or spin faster in the air. To jump higher, you need more strength. To spin faster in the air, you have to mess with your take off timing (which can mean the jump gets worse before it MAY get better). My guess is the "spin faster" route is the easier fix.

mrrice · Nov 26, 2015

karne said:
And as well as that, the skater knows too - or should.

I've never understood why some skaters prone to UR look so baffled when the low TES comes up. To me it is painfully obvious when I UR a jump, I don't understand how anyone could not feel that.

100% Correct. There's absolutely no way that skaters don't know they've under rotated a jump. Even I, as a Novice at best skater, knew when I didn't rotate a jump. Watch Gracie's SP from TEB. That girl may be tilted sometimes but she definitely rotated both jumps on her opening combo.

By the way, Coaches DEFINITELY know when their students under rotate a jump, just like I always knew when my dancers fell off Releve during their turn combo's. In fact, one of my favorite sayings used to be. "Honey, even Helen Keller could see that jump was under rotated." Not very PC, I must admit.

Under rotation problems

mrrice

Myblade

Babbette1

mrrice

mskater93

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

concorde

mrrice

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

concorde

mrrice

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