Sophomore Jinx?

leolion11 · Jan 6, 2016

andyjo24 said:
My So Youn.....

I was just going to mention so youn! She was so promising after her LP at worlds 2014, but then she entered a downward slump and has been getting worse results on the GP circuit this season compared to last season

Hopefully she can turn it around and do better at worlds...

merleice · Jan 6, 2016

maskin said:
Can you think of skaters who have had successful 'sophomore' years? It would make an interesting case study.

Yuzuru Hanyu, at both the Junior and Senior levels.

In his Junior debut season, he was 5th in his JGP event, 12th at Junior Worlds. The following season he won everything: both his JGP events, JGPF and Junior Worlds

In his Senior debut season, he placed 4th at NHK Trophy, 7th at Cup of Russia, 4th at Nationals, 2nd at Four Continents. In his second year as a Senior he was 4th at Cup of China, won Cup of Russia, qualified for the GPF, was 3rd at Nationals, and won the bronze medal at the 2012 World Championships

shyne · Jan 6, 2016

merleice said:
Yuzuru Hanyu, at both the Junior and Senior levels.

In his Junior debut season, he was 5th in his JGP event, 12th at Junior Worlds. The following season he won everything: both his JGP events, JGPF and Junior Worlds

In his Senior debut season, he placed 4th at NHK Trophy, 7th at Cup of Russia, 4th at Nationals, 2nd at Four Continents. In his second year as a Senior he was 4th at Cup of China, won Cup of Russia, qualified for the GPF, was 3rd at Nationals, and won the bronze medal at the 2012 World Championships

Unlike most men, Yuzu was only 15 when he made his senior debut. He had a growth sprout from between his first and second senior year, but i think it actually helped him, giving him more muscle and core strength, but not too much because he's still very flexible and continued with his Beillmann and donut spins. He is special for sure.
With the exception of the prone to injury 14-15 season, he has increased his technical difficulties each season, which is something you don't see in other skaters.

daphenaxa · Jan 7, 2016

maskin said:
Can you think of skaters who have had successful 'sophomore' years? It would make an interesting case study.

Mao Asada became world champion in her sophomore year.

Evgeni Plushenko was silver medalist at worlds and bronze medalist at GPF in his sophomore year.

stella luna · Jan 7, 2016

Amei said:
That comment reminds me of Sasha Cohen even though she is very decorated, there is still the question of what her career would have looked like if she consistently skated 2 clean programs at 1 competition.

Sasha could have had it all, no doubt.

Shayuki · Jan 7, 2016

gkelly said:
If you mean surpassing their "freshman" accomplishments, one example who comes to mind is
Tara Lipinski: 1996 US bronze medalist, 15th at Worlds; 1997 US and World champion

Hard to really count these considering how young she was able to compete as. The thing with the sophomore slump for ladies is that it usually is around puberty or when they are 16-17, this has happened to Lipnitskaya, Tuktamysheva, even Sakhanovich with a slightly different timing... On the other hand, if you for instance count Yulia's incomplete senior 2012-2013 season as her first season, her sophomore season actually was incredibly good. It's just the difference in the ratio of when you're able to first compete and when puberty casts its curse upon you. And well, that's when Lipinski actually retired, at an age where she'd with the current system be in her sophomore year.

As for male skaters, their development generally seems to be much more linear so I'd say that this is just plain standard variance.

heyang · Jan 11, 2016

noskates said:
I just think Alissa Czisny was a very poor competitor. She had all the goods but couldn't put them together very often to skate a clean program. It's a shame because she was beautiful on the ice.

I agree. There was one year she did well in the Grand Prix. One of her wins was a last minute invite since someone else dropped out. During interviews, Alyssa said that the short notice kind of took the pressure off her and she didn't have a long lead time to become anxious.

mrrice · Jan 11, 2016

heyang said:
I agree. There was one year she did well in the Grand Prix. One of her wins was a last minute invite since someone else dropped out. During interviews, Alyssa said that the short notice kind of took the pressure off her and she didn't have a long lead time to become anxious.

She had a couple of weird things happen to her during her career. I guess she had trouble with a flight or her luggage at Skate Canada in 2005. Here's her Short Program.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igTgLpC2orQ

da96103 · Jan 12, 2016

maskin said:
Sophomore comes from a Cambridge tradition where students begin learning debate and argumentation ("sophism" from Latin "sophimus") in their second year of college and continue until they graduate. So first years were referred to as fresh-men, a general term for novice. As they begin to learn the techniques of argument, they are called sophumers (sort of an intermediate stage between what we know as first and third year -- a degree used to be three years, not four). Afterwards they are called junior sophists, then senior sophists, from which we get junior and senior for third and fourth years respectively.

There you go. Sophomore slump/jinx is due to skaters beginning to argue with their coach, choreographer, manager, parents, judges, national federation, etc....

da96103 · Jan 12, 2016

mrrice said:
This is completely true. I can't think of a time when Sasha skated 2 clean programs and didn't win. She basically handed her gold medal to Kimmie at Worlds in 2006. That's not really true as Kimmie was great that night. However, Kimmie didn't need to be great as Sasha opened the door by only landing 4 triple's in her LP.

It's too bad really as Sasha had and in fact, still has, star quality.

Sasha is a beautiful skater, the biggest mistake she made that Olympic season is choosing Nina Rota R&J. The story is tragic, the music is tragic, the skating inevitably will end tragically. Even Yuzu can't break Rota's figure skating curse.

Layback11 · Jan 12, 2016

da96103 said:
Sasha is a beautiful skater, the biggest mistake she made that Olympic season is choosing Nina Rota R&J. The story is tragic, the music is tragic, the skating inevitably will end tragically. Even Yuzu can't break Rota's figure skating curse.

LiamForeman · Jan 13, 2016

The first example that came to my mind is Naomi Nari Nam. She came on like gangbusters in 1999 USN, got tons of publicity and then bombed the next year.

desertskates · Jan 14, 2016

LiamForeman said:
The first example that came to my mind is Naomi Nari Nam. She came on like gangbusters in 1999 USN, got tons of publicity and then bombed the next year.

Ooh, I remember her. Very god example. Quite a shame, she was such a cutie!

Mathman · Jan 14, 2016

desertskates said:
….she was such a cutie!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKkhkHB9m0c

She not only won the Cute contest, they retired the trophy. :laugh:

(Although she had serious competition in this very show. Kristi Yamaguchi did "Rudolph the Red Nosed-Reindeer" in a red Santa Claus dress with white fur trim. :agree: )

Jammers · Jan 14, 2016

LiamForeman said:
The first example that came to my mind is Naomi Nari Nam. She came on like gangbusters in 1999 USN, got tons of publicity and then bombed the next year.

I seem to remember that Naomi Nari Nam had a big growth spurt between Nationals in 1999 and 2000 and it really affected her. Then came the hip injury a year later which ended her singles career.

Sophomore Jinx?

leolion11

merleice

shyne

daphenaxa

stella luna

Shayuki

heyang

mrrice

da96103

da96103

Layback11

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam

desertskates

Mathman

Jammers

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