2015-16 State of Pairs - News & Discussion

Giselle · Jan 18, 2016

I thought it would be appropriate to start a general discussion thread for pairs this season even if we're halfway through the season.
Pairs has become my favourite discipline this year. I think it's a very exciting time for pairs skating with the field open and at least 5 teams that can win the World Title :cheer2:

. Teams are also pushing themselves to learn new elements: more difficult twist, throws, SBS jumps...

With US Nationals, Canadian Nationals and Europeans around the corner, there is quite a few articles that have been published recently about how each Pairs are preparing for these events:

Scimeca, Knierim hit reset ahead of title defense

DUHAMEL AND RADFORD AIM FOR 5TH NATIONAL TITLE IN HALIFAX

Julianne Séguin wants another miracle in Halifax (In French)

Stolbova and Klimov hope for strong return at Europeans

So who are your favourite pairs this year? Any predictions for Europeans/4CC/Worlds?

Crossover · Jan 18, 2016

Thanks, Giselle for making this thread. It is a pity that most people want to talk about single disciplines much more than paired ones. We could've had several big showdowns in pair competition this season, but unfortunately that didn't happen as much due to top skaters' illness or injuries along with Paris attacks and TEB's cancellation.

I don't have a heavy favorite team in pairs yet since Savchenko/Szolkowy dissolved and Pang/Tong retired, but I cheer for many teams to do well such as Duhamel/Radford, Sui/Han, Yu/Jin, Peng/Zhang, Seguin/Bilodeau, Savchenko/Massot and so on. On the other hand, although I don't love Volosozhar/Trankov and Stolbova/Klimov, I can't deny the fact that their presence make our pair competition exciting. I think pair competitions in all the remaining big championships are the most exciting discipline to watch for me.

s_parks · Jan 18, 2016

Pairs has been by far my favorite discipline for a while. The competition is exciting this year, and I pretty much agree with what Crossover said- S/K and V/T are hardly my favorites, but it's exciting to have them in the competition. I think both teams will do quite well at euros, though I have a feeling S/K will edge out V/T for first. I don't quite know what to expect from K/S, as they're not exactly consistent. I don't see them placing above S/K or V/T, however. As for 4cc, I actually think D/R will be improved from earlier in the season. I would predict S/H to beat them, but Sui is still not 100%. But there's still quite a bit of time till 4cc and worlds, and I like how Zhao has been pacing them, though. I really don't see them winning worlds(not that they don't have a chance); it'll be a great result for them to even medal again, considering they've been slowed by injury. But the pressure will be off S/H in favor of the top pairs that have been more visible this season, so I think they'll be able to skate without too much mental burden.
Euros podium: 1. S/K, 2. V/T, 3. K/S
Edit: omg, I forgot about Queen Aliona. I'm rather inclined to put her in 3rd instead of K/S because she's such a better competitor than they are, but the throws need to go down in size and landed on one foot. Aliona is my all time favorite pair skater (male or female), but it's realistically too soon for S/M to beat S/K or V/T.
4cc podium: 1. D/R, 2. S/H, 3. P/Z

lyndichee · Jan 18, 2016

I'm sure every other team will be discussed and debated in detail so I'll just bring their names up here. I hope Seguin and Bilodeau can snatch the bronze medal after D/R and S/H at 4CC.

While technically they don't have the content to beat the top pairs yet, I feel so joyous watching them skate. You can just tell they enjoy each other's company and seem grateful to be on ice together. I really can't wait to see them achieve more on the international circuit :cheer:

solar · Jan 19, 2016

I'm still holding out for Sui/Han to blow us all away at 4cc and worlds, despite an injury. It'll be very difficult to medal at worlds (for any pair, honestly) but I really hope they can do it! (especially since I'll be in boston

)

Giselle · Jan 19, 2016

Crossover said:
Thanks, Giselle for making this thread. It is a pity that most people want to talk about single disciplines much more than paired ones. We could've had several big showdowns in pair competition this season, but unfortunately that didn't happen as much due to top skaters' illness or injuries along with Paris attacks and TEB's cancellation.

Pairs and Ice Dance are my favourite disciplines, my least favourite is Ladies so I'm a weird skating fan :biggrin:

I agree that some showdowns didn't happen with S/H and V/T out of the GPF. But I think the fact that all these teams are staying until the 2018 Olympics and building toward this goal makes it very interesting not only this year, but the next years as well. What technical elements they can add consistently? How can they improve their PCS/Performance? I feel that S/H and S/K are two teams that revamped their style this year with a lot of success.

With US Nationals coming up, NBC has previews of the competition :
NBC preview of Pairs & Ladies. No surprise that they talk about Pairs for less than 4 minutes and no fluff piece.

There is also an interview of US pair Jessica Pfund & Joshua Santillan (they were at Skate America this year) by the podcast "Lutz and Glory".
One interesting that they mentionned is that they are motivated by the fact that their partner lands their jumps consistently. I tought it was very telling because SBS are the nemesis of so many US team! Alexa & Chris improved a lot this year and they have good pair elements but the SBS Jumps are still a mess!

skylark · Jan 19, 2016

Giselle said:
There is also an interview of US pair Jessica Pfund & Joshua Santillan (they were at Skate America this year) by the podcast "Lutz and Glory".
One interesting that they mentionned is that they are motivated by the fact that their partner lands their jumps consistently. I tought it was very telling because SBS are the nemesis of so many US team!

Boy, you can say that again! But I'm very encouraged by the IN article about Alexa and Chris. I think it was so smart of them (and Dalilah) to change the pace of the program by switching off one minute to a more romantic, relaxed segment of music. It should give their program an emotional boost, and at the same time it will be great if it helps them go into their SBS 3Toes with more confidence and less anxiety.

(Gordeeva and Grinkov 1988 brought me into the figure skating fan world, so I love that you started this thread.

One of the most interesting things I've read (or heard?) recently is that Duhamel and Radford decided after the Olympics to step up their skating in what they were good at, the technical side, rather than trying to reach the other top pairs by working on their artistry. It was smart, but I'm conflicted about it, because even though D/R didn't expect it, their success did make all the other pairs consider and/or decide that the only way to stay competitive was to add harder elements, especially quads.

I admire D/R for creating their own path, but it's showing again that the IJS rewards technical difficulty and hasn't figured out yet how to equally reward beauty of line, unison, synchronicity, connection, all the things that made me fall in love with pairs.

Giselle · Jan 19, 2016

lyndichee said:
I'm sure every other team will be discussed and debated in detail so I'll just bring their names up here. I hope Seguin and Bilodeau can snatch the bronze medal after D/R and S/H at 4CC.

While technically they don't have the content to beat the top pairs yet, I feel so joyous watching them skate. You can just tell they enjoy each other's company and seem grateful to be on ice together. I really can't wait to see them achieve more on the international circuit

I don't know if you read Julianne's interview I posted in the 1st post (it's in French) but this is one level-headed team. Kudos to Josee Picard! They seem to know exactly where they are, what are their strenght and weaknesses and what they need to do in order to improve.

Sugarpova · Jan 19, 2016

great thread G!:agree: Another thread for me to whine about Mozer's domination!! :laugh:

:sad21:

I'm sure every other team will be discussed and debated in detail so I'll just bring their names up here. I hope Seguin and Bilodeau can snatch the bronze medal after D/R and S/H at 4CC.

While technically they don't have the content to beat the top pairs yet, I feel so joyous watching them skate. You can just tell they enjoy each other's company and seem grateful to be on ice together. I really can't wait to see them achieve more on the international circuit

thats def my new favourite pair around! I love they have their own style & project emotions. I hope they will edge out D/R asap!

So who are your favourite pairs this year?

ugh I wish I was indifferent & could watch competition easily like any normal person without sitting on the edge of my chair with closed eyes, biting nails & worrying about K/S :laugh:

I'm pretty curious about S/M but not their skating but rather the marks these programm would get at Euros. To me they'rte pretty inferior to other leaders (I mean programms not elements obv) :slink:

& wish all the best to James/Cipres & Val/Ondrej
Seriously their FS is a hallucinogen disco masterpiece :rofl:

I want it to win medals!

Any predictions for Europeans/4CC/Worlds?

As for predictions without any wishful thinking if so

Euros - V/T S/K S/M
4CC - S/H D/R Seguin/Bilodeau
Worlds - V/T S/H D/R

QuadThrow · Jan 19, 2016

Oh yes! That is a great thread with great comments so far. My thoughts.

1. Quads have not been really consistent. There is no pair with a sure and strong Quad. 3T+3T seems to be the more realistic future. S/K and J/C have already tried this and Aliona bared her plans about harder SBS.

2. There are so many pairs who are in medal position. It is crazy because four years ago there has been a simple battle between S/S and V/T.

3. I am a little bit disappointed about S/H. Their artistry and SBS are not that strong. Nevertheless they have the chance to be in front at worlds with 4Tw and 4STh.

4. D/R have taken a back seat. Their BV is really big and their skating skills got even better. But some of their elements and transitions are poor.They do not have the glory of the Russian pairs. I cannot imagine them to win a medal in Poeng Chang 2018.

5. The Russian pairs have the chance to be back in front. If V/T go clean they will be bombed into the front. S/K are incredible on the ice. I love them. If they show 3T+3T+2T and the planned 4STh I will go crazy.

6. P/Z did not develop really well. She is still lacking on the SBS. And please stop these dangerous quad-attemps!

7. Finally! Queen Aliona is back on track. Incredible how she got into medal position after a few mounth. Her technical abillity is better than before and Bruno looks better than expected. I am sure they want to medal at Euros and maybe they will take all in with the 4Tw and 3T+3T.

Mista Ekko · Jan 19, 2016

skylark said:
One of the most interesting things I've read (or heard?) recently is that Duhamel and Radford decided after the Olympics to step up their skating in what they were good at, the technical side, rather than trying to reach the other top pairs by working on their artistry. It was smart, but I'm conflicted about it, because even though D/R didn't expect it, their success did make all the other pairs consider and/or decide that the only way to stay competitive was to add harder elements, especially quads.

I admire D/R for creating their own path, but it's showing again that the IJS rewards technical difficulty and hasn't figured out yet how to equally reward beauty of line, unison, synchronicity, connection,all the things that made me fall in love with pairs.

Are people still arguing this...?

It's very evident that D\R worked both on their Tech and their Artistry simultaneously, And i'm not aware of such interview,

As for Unison and Synchronicity they're probably the best pair at those, And the connection thing i never got,
To me they Connect very well with the music and each other, You never see them cold towards each other or pissed off at one another like others.

Worlds is gonna be very exciting this year, Such a Rich list of talent,
Are V\T going to Europeans for sure?

skylark · Jan 19, 2016

Mista Ekko said:
Are people still arguing this...?

It's very evident that D\R worked both on their Tech and their Artistry simultaneously, And i'm not aware of such interview,

As for Unison and Synchronicity they're probably the best pair at those, And the connection thing i never got,
To me they Connect very well with the music and each other, You never see them cold towards each other or pissed off at one another like others.

Worlds is gonna be very exciting this year, Such a Rich list of talent,
Are V\T going to Europeans for sure?

It was in an article I read recently, and I'm sure I got the link from this forum, but I don't know where the article is to point you to it. It was narrated in third person, so it wasn't a direct quote. But the writer of the article stated that after the Olympics, D/R chose to keep pushing the technical, which was their strength, because they wanted to. It was implied that the conventional wisdom said they "should" try to bring their other qualities up first, but they went with what they were best at, what they liked, etc. I admire that. The article also stated that their success in 2014-15 has pushed other pairs to start training quads. That didn't seem controversial to me.

I didn't mean to imply that they weren't trying to improve their artistry. At SC this year in their LP, I felt there was a huge difference in their connection and expressiveness, particularly Meghan's, as I always felt that Eric had been the more artistic of the two. I particularly admired the way she was using her arms, which seemed softer and more expressive. I mentioned that in the thread that was going on during the competition. Someone replied that she'd been working for a long time on those aspects of her presentation, and the evidence of that work was finally coming through.

I don't know how long or whether "people" are still arguing this. But it was a recent article. I'm a new regular to this forum this season, so I don't know what questions have been designated off limits.

I was happy to read that Maxim Trankov said he and Tatiana don't intend to be pressured into adding quad throws, etc. I'm all for skaters emphasizing and believing in their own strengths. I haven't heard that they're not going to Europeans. I hope so. But they'll be at Worlds, and it should be a very exciting pairs event.

Giselle · Jan 19, 2016

Mista Ekko said:
Are people still arguing this...?

It's very evident that D\R worked both on their Tech and their Artistry simultaneously, And i'm not aware of such interview,

As for Unison and Synchronicity they're probably the best pair at those, And the connection thing i never got,
To me they Connect very well with the music and each other, You never see them cold towards each other or pissed off at one another like others.

Worlds is gonna be very exciting this year, Such a Rich list of talent,
Are V\T going to Europeans for sure?

I don't think skylark meant that they stopped working on their PCS (Artistry such a vague word to me) completely, but that they shifted their focus more on their strenght which is the technical part. They said that all year long, for example: Duhamel and Radford pushing technical boundaries of figure skating

“We felt last year we needed more of a cushion with our technical marks because we’ve been trying to push the boundaries and be creative and really work on the artistic side of our skating, but we always found that the judges were scoring, in particular, the Russian teams higher, artistically, than us,” said Duhamel, a native of Lively, Ont. “So if they’re going to be scoring three or four marks higher artistically, we need seven or eight points more technically.

TSL's video (Duhamel and Radford: Finding Themselves and Finding Gold) is also very good. I think the part where Meagan says that they found a way to be Meagan and Eric and not make one skate like the other really showed in their programs.

I think that in pairs more than other disciplines, it really takes time to "gel" on ice. Whatever they do off ice, I don't really care tbh.

I don't think that all of teams are discounting the PCS. Both S/H and S/K are trying different styles in their programs this year and are challenging themselves to improve their PCS. V/T already get sky high PCS.

Kittosuni · Jan 19, 2016

Im really curious to what Aleona and Bruno will bring to the table. I dont expect them to medal this season but for next year and and 2018 I have the feeling they will be stronger. V/T and K/S are very fragile so hopefully their body will hold on until 2018. Im happy that V/T isnt rushing things and seem to listen to their bodies. D/R is an interesting case. Can they maintain this high level of difficulty until 2018?

LRK · Jan 19, 2016

Giselle said:
Pairs and Ice Dance are my favourite disciplines, my least favourite is Ladies so I'm a weird skating fan

I agree that some showdowns didn't happen with S/H and V/T out of the GPF. But I think the fact that all these teams are staying until the 2018 Olympics and building toward this goal makes it very interesting not only this year, but the next years as well. What technical elements they can add consistently? How can they improve their PCS/Performance? I feel that S/H and S/K are two teams that revamped their style this year with a lot of success.

With US Nationals coming up, NBC has previews of the competition :
NBC preview of Pairs & Ladies. No surprise that they talk about Pairs for less than 4 minutes and no fluff piece.

Thanks for posting that - yes, the pairs section was really short...

I do really like Scimeca/Knierim's programs this year - much more so than ever before, when their skating honestly hasn't "done" anything for me. But I really enjoyed how they came out and skated their FP at Nebelhorn with such verve and passion... I haven't felt they have been able to replicate that since, but I hope they have two great skates at Nationals.

With Denney/Frazier sadly still out (I'm still very disappointed about that), I'm really looking forward to seeing Aaron/Settlage and what they can do. It seems there is very little focus (of what I've seen at any rate) on them, and I hope they can come out and surprise.

As for pairs in general - I like Sugarpova am a Kavaguti/Smirnov fan and therefore used to anxiety and heartbreak... but it makes their (too rare) triumphs all the sweeter.

Otherwise there are lots of other pairs I enjoy too - Seguin/Bilodeau have been mentioned here already. I adore Astakhova/Rogonov's programs this year. And James/Cipres, Tarasova/Morozov... I actually think there is good quality & variety in pairs these days, and hopefully there's something for everyone to enjoy. I honestly think pairs are in a good place at the moment.

Note: Pairs are my second favourite discipline after the gents; ladies are my third, and I don't watch ice dance...

SarahSynchro · Jan 19, 2016

skylark said:
I was happy to read that Maxim Trankov said he and Tatiana don't intend to be pressured into adding quad throws, etc. I'm all for skaters emphasizing and believing in their own strengths.

This comment by Maxim makes me think of the Patrick Chan thread, which discusses how he is upping his technical ante, and about the mentality of the men's field in general and how it applies to pairs. The argument now for the men's field seems to be that a skater like Patrick, with great artistry but not as much tech content, can't catch a skater like Yuzu, with his great artistry and continuously increasing tech content. I bring this up because it seems like Maxim believes he and Tatiana can continue to be on top with their artistry alone - but isn't that being somewhat naive? I agree with those who say D&R will never match V&T in artistry/PCS, but who's to say another team can't have high tech content AND amazing PCS? S&K as the obvious example. If all the other top pairs are increasing their technical difficulty, isn't it logical to expect that a team who isn't doing so will eventually be surpassed?

Giselle · Jan 19, 2016

SarahSynchro said:
This comment by Maxim makes me think of the Patrick Chan thread, which discusses how he is upping his technical ante, and about the mentality of the men's field in general and how it applies to pairs. The argument now for the men's field seems to be that a skater like Patrick, with great artistry but not as much tech content, can't catch a skater like Yuzu, with his great artistry and continuously increasing tech content. I bring this up because it seems like Maxim believes he and Tatiana can continue to be on top with their artistry alone - but isn't that being somewhat naive? I agree with those who say D&R will never match V&T in artistry/PCS, but who's to say another team can't have high tech content AND amazing PCS? S&K as the obvious example. If all the other top pairs are increasing their technical difficulty, isn't it logical to expect that a team who isn't doing so will eventually be surpassed?

IMO V/T will get the benefit of the doubt this year as OGM and the other teams are still getting used to their new elements. I don't really expect everyone to skate clean LPs this year. V/T have the potential to score very high in the SP because of their L4 +3Goes twist and high PCS but who knows whether Quad twists or Throws will be allowed in the SP in the future?
In the future, I'm not too sure about their strategy. S/K were thinking the same thing last year and relied on skating cleanly and I think that put way too much pressure on them to be absolutely perfect to stand a chance of winning. They had a huge wake-up call.

I don't think Max is really "naive" but I think that he is from a different generation. S/K competed against S/H in juniors after all, when S/H were winning everything and already going for Quad twist and Throw Quad so I don't think it came as a total surprise for them that they would need to work on Quads too at some point in their career.

Li'Kitsu · Jan 19, 2016

The pairs field is amazing currently. As one of the skating fans way more focused on the single disciplines usually, I enjoy the pairs this season a lot more than previously and am really looking forward to Euros, 4CCs and worlds. And at this point, I'm pretty much rooting for all the pairs to do well (which means more anxiety and heartbreak... oh, great :biggrin:

).
My favorites though are Sui/Han, and they have been since last season. So despite her injury, I hope they'll do really well at 4CC and especially worlds and at least defend their silver medal. Stolbova/Klimov are my 'next in line' and I really love their LP and how they performed it at the GPF! (I'm also Team Queen Ksenia and her deathglares, just saying :biggrin:

) And since the GPF, Kavaguti/Smirnov and Duhamel/Radford have really grown on me to, though for completely different reasons. When it comes to V/T, I was never that much of a fan, but it's great for the sport that they are back! Same for Queen Aliona, though I think as of now her and Bruno aren't quite soup yet... but given they're a new pair and couldn't compete for quite long, that's to be expected. I have zero expectations of them going into Euros and just hope for the best for them. May they join the other teams in quality next season

Trying to predict the next events...
Euros: 1.) S/K 2.) V/T 3.) K/S (or maybe S/M, because they might skate better...)
4CC: 1.) D/H 2.) S/H 3.) S/B
Worlds: no idea :yay:

Giselle · Jan 19, 2016

LRK said:
Thanks for posting that - yes, the pairs section was really short...

I do really like Scimeca/Knierim's programs this year - much more so than ever before, when their skating honestly hasn't "done" anything for me. But I really enjoyed how they came out and skated their FP at Nebelhorn with such verve and passion... I haven't felt they have been able to replicate that since, but I hope they have two great skates at Nationals.

With Denney/Frazier sadly still out (I'm still very disappointed about that), I'm really looking forward to seeing Aaron/Settlage and what they can do. It seems there is very little focus (of what I've seen at any rate) on them, and I hope they can come out and surprise.

I really missed Denney/Frazier this year. I hope that they can rebound next year. I do prefer them to Scimeca/Knierim an I was excited to see them work with Ingo.

skylark · Jan 19, 2016

Giselle said:
I don't think skylark meant that they stopped working on their PCS (Artistry such a vague word to me) completely, but that they shifted their focus more on their strenght which is the technical part. They said that all year long, for example: Duhamel and Radford pushing technical boundaries of figure skating

TSL's video (Duhamel and Radford: Finding Themselves and Finding Gold) is also very good. I think the part where Meagan says that they found a way to be Meagan and Eric and not make one skate like the other really showed in their programs.

I think that in pairs more than other disciplines, it really takes time to "gel" on ice. Whatever they do off ice, I don't really care tbh.

I don't think that all of teams are discounting the PCS. Both S/H and S/K are trying different styles in their programs this year and are challenging themselves to improve their PCS. V/T already get sky high PCS.

Giselle, for providing those links.

That article from January 2015 said some of the things I was remembering but was more complete and very interesting. That paragraph about how they planned their season, and even decided to keep skating, specifically because there were so many top pairs breaking up, retiring, getting new partners, etc. was really interesting.

Meagan said, "In skating, a lot of it is about timing." So true! They identified their opportunity and stepped up into it. Whether or not we're completely comfortable with the consequences, that's how skating (and life) are.

2015-16 State of Pairs - News & Discussion

Giselle

Crossover

All Hail the Queen

s_parks

lyndichee

solar

I got cat class and I got cat style

Giselle

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset

Giselle

Sugarpova

#EmpressAirlines #SinKatsapologist

QuadThrow

Mista Ekko

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset

Giselle

Kittosuni

LRK

SarahSynchro

Giselle

Li'Kitsu

Giselle

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset

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