Brennan: Why U.S. figure skating has fallen

Mathman · Jan 22, 2016

Specifically, the Q score is the ratio (quotient) of the number of people who enthusiastically approve of a person, product, company, etc., to the number of people who have heard of him/it.

I would imagine that Jason Brown's Q score would be very high -- among figure skating fans, he is very popular.

el henry · Jan 22, 2016

Two different issues:

Winning:
1. Yes, Americans like their athletes to win, and not because we're jingoistic narrow-minded fools, but because we like our athletes to win. So an athlete with a gold medal gets a lot more attention than one without.

2. That said, not every gold medalist is popular athlete and able to put butts in the seats or eyeballs on the tube. Look at women's soccer. Way popular in schools as an athletic choice for women. Around World Cup time, enormous hoo-hah because the women are winning. Otherwise, find someone who cares about women's soccer? If it's not their daughter's league? Not so much.

3. Since gold medalists do not even guarantee success with viewers, as noted above borderline child abusers like the Karolyis are the last thing that US figure skating needs. And I liked the point about cycling through gymnasts; I could not tell you the name of one American gymnast. Not one. And in the town next door to me is supposedly some fancy gymnast training place, so our local paper writes about it from time to time. Still wouldn't know 'em if I tripped over 'em on the street.

4. Winning alone won't do it.

Q score:

1. I have heard of the Q score, and I agree with this idea. I have read for example, that Tom Hanks has a high Q score. Very recognizable and seen as very likable.

2. Figure skating needs a high Q score skater along with that winning gold. The jumping automaton who lands jumps, and wins, but if you turned the sound down, could be skating to Brahms, the Beatles, or Beyonce, won't do it for the average fan.

Where is this great mythical skater? Beats me. :scratch2:

But the US needs both.

Mathman · Jan 22, 2016

el henry said:
I could not tell you the name of one American gymnast. Not one.

Repeat after me: Simone Biles. Simone Biles. Simone Biles. :laugh:

Bonnie F · Jan 22, 2016

Mathman said:
Repeat after me: Simone Biles. Simone Biles. Simone Biles.

And yet despite the success of Biles and the domination of US gymnasts over the last decade it has not seemed to translate to much of an increase in popularity for the general public of the US. If I remember correctly during 2015 only three elite gymnastics events were televised on major networks (American Cup, US nationals and Worlds). Figure skating has had at least 3x that many.

Sam L · Jan 22, 2016

Mathman said:
Interest in figure skating was already on the decline in the U.S. by the early 2000s. This was before the IJS and while Michelle Kwan was going strong.

I don't think there is any reason, really. Cultural tastes change.

This is a very good post.
People need to understand this. Sometimes, things just go out of fashion with certain societies.

I'm not American. But I think America is a very different place now to what it was about 20 years ago. Yes? Russia and Japan? Probably not, culturally.

Figure Skating, with its certain similarities to ballet, will always remain at the core of the Russian soul for instance.

The decline in America is similar to the decline in European countries before.

brightphoton · Jan 22, 2016

Simone is amazing because of her longevity -- she's been competing on the senior level for 3 whole years!

Haha I'm kidding, I don't actually follow enough gymnastics to know how long she's been around. I do remember that Shawn Johnson competed for 2 years and then quit. It isn't good to have a sport full of Tara Lipinskis.

Remember at the last Olympics, our gymnastics team was called the Firey Five or Fiesty Five or whatever. Which of those 5 are still competing today?

Scovies · Jan 22, 2016

brightphoton said:
Simone is amazing because of her longevity -- she's been competing on the senior level for 3 whole years!

Haha I'm kidding, I don't actually follow enough gymnastics to know how long she's been around. I do remember that Shawn Johnson competed for 2 years and then quit. It isn't good to have a sport full of Tara Lipinskis.

Remember at the last Olympics, our gymnastics team was called the Firey Five or Fiesty Five or whatever. Which of those 5 are still competing today?

Three of them, actually! Gabby Douglas, Aly Raisman, and Kyla Ross are still competing. Gabby finished 2nd in the all-around at worlds this year, and both she and Aly were on the gold-medal winning team.

I don't think it's fair to compare longevity in figure skating to gymnastics. Gymnasts' careers are notoriously short.

FlattFan · Jan 22, 2016

Shawn was on Dancing with the Stars twice. She's very popular. More "Q" factor than the current US ladies combined.
Let's just accept that US figure skating is a half dead horse and we're beating it again and again everytime the horse is resuscitated.
Just let it go, put it down. Disband the USFSA. Ask the gymnastic lady for some interns and have them run this show.

NBC should just pay some royalty to NHK/BBC and rebroadcast their skating coverage online instead of some crappity 1-2 hours show by the worst editing team patching together some random performances. Only die hard fans like us who would watch them anyway. Save your money, NBC. Put the content online.

yuki · Jan 22, 2016

brightphoton said:
Remember at the last Olympics, our gymnastics team was called the Firey Five or Fiesty Five or whatever. Which of those 5 are still competing today?

Gabby Douglas (2012 Olympics AA gold) recently won AA silver at the 2015 Worlds. From the 2012 team, both her and Aly Raisman competed and won gold in the team event in 2015.

drivingmissdaisy · Jan 22, 2016

yuki said:
Gabby Douglas (2012 Olympics AA gold) recently won AA silver at the 2015 Worlds. From the 2012 team, both her and Aly Raisman competed and won gold in the team event in 2015.

Kyla Ross is also still competing (as far as I know) and actually was a world AA medalist 2 years ago.

gravy · Jan 22, 2016

drivingmissdaisy said:
Kyla Ross is also still competing (as far as I know) and actually was a world AA medalist 2 years ago.

Kyla won 3 silvers (all around, bars, beam) at Worlds in 2013, a team gold and bronze all around in 2014. She didn't compete this year because she was injured, but she has a realistic chance of making the Rio team.

FlattFan said:
Ask the gymnastic lady for some interns and have them run this show.

The USFS should get on that ASAP. I believe that if the grand ole' btch Marta Karolyi was in charge and tortured the skaters all she wants at her camps, the US would start producing gold medalists in figure skating. GoFundMe to make this happen. :agree:

padme21 · Jan 22, 2016

brightphoton said:
Simone is amazing because of her longevity -- she's been competing on the senior level for 3 whole years!

Haha I'm kidding, I don't actually follow enough gymnastics to know how long she's been around. I do remember that Shawn Johnson competed for 2 years and then quit. It isn't good to have a sport full of Tara Lipinskis.

Remember at the last Olympics, our gymnastics team was called the Firey Five or Fiesty Five or whatever. Which of those 5 are still competing today?

They were called the Fab Five

Mathman · Jan 22, 2016

padme21 said:
They were called the Fab Five

I think they changed their name to the Fierce Five after the Olympics. The Fab Five was already the nickname of the University of Michigan basketball team that started five freshmen in 1991. There may even have been a trademark issue with respect to merchandizing the name, etc.

MaxSwagg · Jan 22, 2016

Shawn had injuries. Bastia could have come back but waited too late (as for being successful? probably not given the current Code doesn't properly reward style). The media hyped Shawn up to be so great, even though Nastia was the best gymnast the US has ever had.

ribbit · Jan 22, 2016

brightphoton said:
That's nice and all, but it didn't add to the medal count at Worlds nor did it increase skating popularity.

That Alissa Czisny's successful completion of her program didn't increase skating's popularity is not her fault. When the media decide to promote such narratives, American audiences eat them up. I very much doubt I'm the only poster on this board who remembers the 1996 Atlanta Olympics primarily for Kerri Strug landing her final vault on one foot after injuring her other ankle on her first vault (although the team gold medal had already been won and she could have been withdrawn), or who first heard of Lindsay Vonn when (as Lindsay Kildow) she crashed so badly on an Olympic downhill training run that she had to be airlifted off the mountain, and came out of the hospital to race just two days later. She didn't win a medal, but she finished eighth and won the U.S. Olympic Spirit Award. Czisny's courage and grit could have been celebrated as similar examples of never-say-die fighting spirit, and I would never sneer at an athlete who perseveres through what must be more pain than I have ever experienced in order not to quit.

sandraskates · Jan 22, 2016

While I still watch the televised skating competitions I know I don't enjoy them as much as I did back in the 70s – 90s. I don't like the new scoring system because it has driven the competitors to creating almost identical routines. When I fritter away my time on YouTube watching old skating videos I just sigh at how much I miss seeing an artistic personality come out, a lovely layback spin held in one beautiful position, a wally jump, and for ice dancing – compulsory dances that “separated the men from the boys” so to speak.

I'm also hating the camera work of late. I think the first time I nearly threw a skate at my TV was when UPN totally cutaway from a program to a reaction shot from a coach! I think it was Sandra Bezic who actually commented something like “well, if we could see the skater.” I dislike the sky camera, cuts in the middle of a spin or jump to another view, fades, etc. Just follow and show me the dang skater!

And I feel the consistency of our non-ice dancing skaters is waning. Jason Brown's programs were a throwback to what my mind considers the golden years but he's out this year. Our pairs get good and then they break up. And why can't they consistently land side-by-side jumps??

As for general popularity, I work part time at my local rink and it has been packed on the public sessions! And enrollment in the current set of various group lesson levels is very, very high. I guess from this thread, that doesn't translate into TV viewership.

brightphoton · Jan 23, 2016

Three out of the original five Fab/Fierce Five is pretty good. I had expected one at the most. I know when I watch the Olympics, it seems like the gymnastics team is entirely different.

As for Alissa, I had always thought she knew she had an injury beforehand but conveniently didn't get a diagnosis until after World's, owing to both wanting to avoid Rachel Flatt's penalty for concealing a similar injury in the previous year's Worlds, and just wanting to compete at World's no matter what. Obviously no proof for that, but I'm just not sympathetic to that entire situation. IIRC, her nationals win was subpar, and practices and skates after Nationals showed similar patterns of falling a lot and skating like it was painful.

Poor Rachel. Looking back, it seemed like she got put on the USFSA naughty list forever for admitting she had an ankle injury.

Storm in a teacup for mid-tier skaters. Maybe Polina will win nationals and get a world medal.

Sam-Skwantch · Jan 23, 2016

For those of you that work with coaches I'm curious if any of them follow the Grand Prix and other major events? It has been my experience that the majority of the time the answer is no. :think:

Mathman · Jan 23, 2016

ribbit said:
That Alissa Czisny's successful completion of her program didn't increase skating's popularity is not her fault. When the media decide to promote such narratives, American audiences eat them up. I very much doubt I'm the only poster on this board who remembers the 1996 Atlanta Olympics primarily for Kerri Strug landing her final vault on one foot after injuring her other ankle on her first vault (although the team gold medal had already been won and she could have been withdrawn), or who first heard of Lindsay Vonn when (as Lindsay Kildow) she crashed so badly on an Olympic downhill training run that she had to be airlifted off the mountain, and came out of the hospital to race just two days later. She didn't win a medal, but she finished eighth and won the U.S. Olympic Spirit Award. Czisny's courage and grit could have been celebrated as similar examples of never-say-die fighting spirit, and I would never sneer at an athlete who perseveres through what must be more pain than I have ever experienced in order not to quit.

This.

Mathman · Jan 23, 2016

sandraskates said:
As for general popularity, I work part time at my local rink and it has been packed on the public sessions! And enrollment in the current set of various group lesson levels is very, very high. I guess from this thread, that doesn't translate into TV viewership.

I , too, believe that this is the future of figure skating. It will become largely a participatory sport rather than a spectator sport. And if you think about it, what's wrong with that?

Brennan: Why U.S. figure skating has fallen

Mathman

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

Mathman

Bonnie F

Sam L

brightphoton

Scovies

FlattFan

Match Penalty

yuki

drivingmissdaisy

gravy

¿No ven quién soy yo?

padme21

Mathman

MaxSwagg

Match Penalty

ribbit

sandraskates

brightphoton

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

Mathman

Mathman

Similar threads

Connect with us