Brennan: Why U.S. figure skating has fallen | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Brennan: Why U.S. figure skating has fallen

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
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Dec 29, 2013
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United-States
I guess if you don't care about watching the sport on TV, there's nothing wrong with that at all ...

Its just US skating though that we aren't watching. Fortunately Russian Jr Nationals was on and Just as good of an event. Good crowd...good skating....perfect feed....nice drama....:popcorn: I wonder if US Fed knows that Americans like me feel this way. I will never buy IN myself.
 

gma247

Spectator
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
I have followed figure skating my entire life and have religiously read this message board for several years. I feel so strongly about this topic that I'm here posting my first ever comment.

It's infuriating that the same hackjob article Christine Brennan has written for the PAST TEN YEARS is still being published (and making this board devolve AGAIN into the tired IJS vs. 6.0 system debate.) It's not only that's she's recycling the same premise for these poorly-researched pieces, but she's actually reusing entire phrases and lines for her articles. She's self-plagiarizing, which is against every journalism code of ethics there is:

(Bold is mine for emphasis)
2016:
"And more than a decade after the sport instituted an arcane, points-based judging system, no one but the most devout sequin head has any idea what in the world is happening on the ice. You remember the 6.0 scoring system? The one with the numbers displayed with the flags of the judges' countries? It was reality TV before there was reality TV."
1/21/16 USAToday article

2013:
"for an anonymous points-based system that few truly understand to this day. Even though it has produced some fairer results, this was a huge marketing mistake. The 6.0 system was reality TV before there was reality TV."
3/17/13 USAToday article

2013:
"Kwan's departure happened to coincide with the emergence of the sport's new judging system, in which the recognizable, reality-TV-style 6.0 system was discarded in favor of a points system that remains indecipherable to all but the most seasoned insiders."
1/24/13 USAToday article

She's not going to get fired for this, but it definitely warrants someone going through her work with a fine-tooth comb to find any more egregious examples (I'd do it myself but reading her makes me too angry.) The fact that I just searched three recent-ish articles of hers on Google and could easily find this speaks volumes about how much energy she puts into her skating work. I have about a thousand things to say about Brennan's "coverage" but I'm going to stick to two main points so I don't ramble on:

1.) If Brennan can make diehard fans -- like the ones in this thread -- argue again about IJS vs. 6.0, then think about the damage this old argument is doing for casual fans. It's not a new system anymore. It's not changing back. LET IT GO. As a journalist, it's her duty to inform the public with critical analysis and original research, reporting, and new takes. I applaud NBC's effort to include the new scoring graphic in the corner of the screen. Whether or not it will work, it's the most exciting and original thing in US figure skating coverage this year. The fact that she hasn't written about NBC's effort to improve US audiences understanding of the "new" judging system with this graphic is a lost opportunity and just lazy journalism. If she wants to write about her the sport has changed, she should interview Farris and Brown about the nature and cause of their injuries -- the former has been vocal on social media about his thoughts, and it's ridiculous that she hasn't picked that up for an article. A new, original article.

2.) In her gymnastics coverage, Christine Brennan has been very smart to cuddle up next to some very talented bloggers and online "gymternet" personalities and analysts that end up elevating her own work. Unfortunately, we don't have that same critical mass of online expert analysis in digestible form for casual fans (TSL and Rocker are good, but it's not enough, whereas gymnastics has thegymter.net, Gymcastic, Couch Gymnast, etc. etc. etc.) In skating, Brennan clearly doesn't have the same experts/sources -- or interest -- to provide actual, critical coverage.

As figure skating fans, we need to demand better journalism and real analysis. I'm a journalist by trade in a very different field and am so frustrated that I have daydreams about completely switching beats and writing full-time about skating. Brennan is a joke. And the fact that she's allowed to continue to (mis-)represent our sport in the largest-circulating US newspaper with such crappy coverage is so disappointing.
 

sabinfire

Doing the needful
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Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Its just US skating though that we aren't watching. Fortunately Russian Jr Nationals was on and Just as good of an event. Good crowd...good skating....perfect feed....nice drama....:popcorn: I wonder if US Fed knows that Americans like me feel this way. I will never buy IN myself.

Exactly. I only attended Skate America & (soon) Worlds this year to see skaters from other countries. I would not pay & travel to see domestic skaters in the US. Saint Paul is not far from me but I never even considered going to Nats this year.
 

Moxiejan

Medalist
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Jan 11, 2014
Country
United-States
I guess if you don't care about watching the sport on TV, there's nothing wrong with that at all ...

But see, you're talking only about traditional network TV. I've been a skating fan since the early 1960s, when "watching the sport on TV" meant delayed coverage of Nationals on Wide World of Sports, with 2.5 long programs shown. Hardly anything on Worlds or any other international competition. Even during the post-Tonya/Nancy boom years, "watching the sport on TV" meant mostly cheesefests.

I much prefer the coverage we have today, with so much live streaming available for events around the world, as well as for U.S. qualifying events that we never saw before. Despite the glitches on Ice Network, the subscription price is an incredible bargain.
 

dailytg20

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Baby's first post! :)

I think the shift to IJS, while nowhere near completely to blame, has had a downward effect in US viewership in a very specific way. I agree that 6.0 is easier to digest for casual fans but ultimately I don't think casual fans ever have a grasp of skating quality beyond "nice hair, oh she fell, that was a pretty move," which is why broadcast commentary sounds dumb since it's not really for fans but for "the viewers at home" or whatever is left of them. Just from personal experience I have no idea what the scores mean in gymnastics or snowboarding but it doesn't diminish my occasional viewership.

Instead what I think the IJS may have done was inadvertently alienate the legacy fans--even former skaters and insiders--who where weaned on 6.0 skating. IJS hasn't ruined the sport, it just made it different. For better or worse a fan who grew up with IJS skating is looking at the sport with completely different eyes than a fan from the 6.0 days. A 6.0 fan thinks, "Why is she twirling around so much like an insane person to this slow minuet and why are you freeze-framing and using a compass and protractor on your laptop screen to measure the hypotenuse of that landing when the whole routine is just yet another over-stuffed sausage for points gathering?" An IJS fan thinks, "Is this an Olympic performance or a macchiato break at Starbucks? Did I accidentally click on an episode of Toddlers and Tiaras or is she really just strutting then vogueing in place? Could that double flutz be more underrotated and why are you having a spiritual experience and practically weeping over those basic spins and novice footwork?"

In contrast figure skating in East Asian countries hit its stride during the IJS era, so this shift has not affected their market as much as in the US. So now that a lot of American 6.0 geezers like me are reduced to squinting with our cataracts at the blurry misty VHS recordings of yore, the future of US figure skating relies on attracting new fans in a nation where the main source of content is no longer one of the Big 3 networks with a quarter share of the market, where the whole family, having little choice, sits together and gets hooked on this family-friendly, prime-time sport.

Now the main official source of figure skating is alone in your bedroom on your personal media device of choice, though the Ice Network's totally redundant yet inferior infrastructure (just use YouTube already) and worse behind a lovely paywall. Yeah, so... Even current fans refresh forums for uploaded clips until their fingers seize up and struggle through choppy Latvian feeds with IP masking schemes to avoid that nonsense. Apparently US skating has learned little from the seismic shift in how the music industry has had to move from content being profitable in itself to content being promotional for touring and merchandising that is actually profitable (i.e., using social media and the Interweb's lowered cost of distributing skating content to get butts in seats).
 
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Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
For the record - today there is 6 hours of figure skating on TV in the US
 

dailytg20

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
For the record - today there is 6 hours of figure skating on TV in the US
Hooray for exposure! And I could be totally off-base with my assumptions because I have to admit I rarely watch TV anymore with the advent of broadband, mobile, internet-based channels, small production and user-generated free content and time-shifted/on-demand video. I just think this whole subscription model for a sport that has been reduced to a niche in America is transitional at best and limiting in terms of what is possible and what is demanded by consumers.

Interestingly enough Ice Network seems to have a friendly relationship with NBC, but I don't think they are available on NBC's Hulu because they are interested in being the source which seems a bit of an old school POV. To be fair, I don't think this is primarily why US skating has fallen but I'm also unsure at how this is helping to create a culture that encourages growth in the sport for the future.
 
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el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
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Baby's first post! :)

I think the shift to IJS, while nowhere near completely to blame, has had a downward effect in US viewership in a very specific way ......

Instead what I think the IJS may have done was inadvertently alienate the legacy fans--even former skaters and insiders--who where weaned on 6.0 skating. IJS hasn't ruined the sport, it just made it different. For better or worse a fan who grew up with IJS skating is looking at the sport with completely different eyes than a fan from the 6.0 days. A 6.0 fan thinks, "Why is she twirling around so much like an insane person to this slow minuet and why are you freeze-framing and using a compass and protractor on your laptop screen to measure the hypotenuse of that landing when the whole routine is just yet another over-stuffed sausage for points gathering?"

Yes, yes, yes! Someone who grew up on Toller and company waving their hand frantically here.

An IJS fan thinks, "Is this an Olympic performance or a macchiato break at Starbucks? Did I accidentally click on an episode of Toddlers and Tiaras or is she really just strutting then vogueing in place? Could that double flutz be more underrotated and why are you having a spiritual experience and practically weeping over those basic spins and novice footwork?"

I think you've captured this as well, and since you've captured the other side, maybe I understand more how that quad counters feel? ;) I personally think US skating needs more spiritual experiences and less XTreme Power Ice Jumping; there's a reason that Worlds, less than a five hour drive from me, has failed to capture my greenbacks. Had Nats been in Boston again; well, I would have missed (currently 28 inches and counting) of snow in my backyard by being there. :laugh: But I don't know that it has to do with *understanding* IJS; if I cared to, I would get it. But not until it awards more points for my spiritual experience!
 
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Poodlepal

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
I don't think the "new" judging system helped with the television watching popularity in the United States, though it is not 100% responsible for the lower ratings. The focus is now on tiny details of edges and rotations. A program with multiple wrong edges and underrotations can still look good to someone watching on television, if the skater skates to a well-liked song, has a nice costume, expresses the music well and DOESN'T FALL. When clean-looking programs get low scores because of things that can only be seen on instant replay, some viewers will get mad. Those who are really, really into skating or have skated themselves may understand.

What you have now is an upscale sport with a cult following, instead of a sport for the masses. Those who want to study or be schooled in why it's so bad to take off on the wrong edge will pay the money for Ice Network and those who think it's petty will not.

For professional figure skating writers and those who made a lot of money when it was a sport for the masses, this is not a good thing. The 6.0 system may have been deeply flawed, but it was fun. A lot of the fun is gone. The flags of the countries and seeing who gave what score to whom was fun, and the wildly differing programs were fun. Seeing everyone spend minutes staring at their feet while doing level 4 footwork is not fun. Why do the Japanese and Russians think it is fun? They probably don't, but they have the stars right now, so the popularity of the sport is probably at least partially flag waving, as it was in the US for so many years. Those who don't care if they never hear their country's national anthem at the Olympics but like individuals of various countries will not be upset at figure skating's current state, but many others will.

Brennan's other point is about the lack of stars of late, except for ice dancing. I suspect, though can't prove, that teenagers are different today. The pool of kids willing to sign away their lives to practice the right edge is probably shrinking due to the internet, cell phones, attitude changes, and a perceived lack of payoff for stage parents. I teach in one of the top high schools in the country, and I don't know if any of my kids would be willing to do it.
 

louisa05

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Brennan's other point is about the lack of stars of late, except for ice dancing. I suspect, though can't prove, that teenagers are different today. The pool of kids willing to sign away their lives to practice the right edge is probably shrinking due to the internet, cell phones, attitude changes, and a perceived lack of payoff for stage parents. I teach in one of the top high schools in the country, and I don't know if any of my kids would be willing to do it.

I think that there are plenty of teens with that kind of dedication, but there are also plenty of other sports to pursue that are less expensive. Our economy is not great. I can't help but think that there are a ton of kids out there who possess the work ethic and natural talent but their families do not have the money to pursue an expensive sport like skating. Team sports available at school are low cost for parents by comparison, in some cases almost no cost. Even expensive traveling teams for some sports would still be incredibly cost effective when compared to skating.I had students who played on select traveling teams in volleyball and basketball. Kids who indeed had the dedication. They spent 4-6 hours a day on their sports. One played on a junior national team. But the costs to families, while expensive, are next to nothing compared to skating. U.S. Figure Skating does not have the resources to fund skaters the way many other federations are able to do.

It is likely that some of the best potential talent in the U.S. quietly slips away at very young ages because it is simply not financially viable for families.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
An enthusiastic welcome to gma247 and to dailytg20. Thank you both for posting in such a thorough and insightful way.

To gma247: I casually followed figure skating for years, dating back to Carol Heiss. :love: But I really became hooked when I read Christine Brennan's book on Michelle kwan, the Edge of Glory. I found it, well, glorious. So I have tried to give her the benefit of the doubt ever since. (I don't subscribe to USA today or other newspapers that Brennan usually publishes in.)

It is my impression that the reason anti-IJSers (for instance Janet Lynn and Sonia Bianchetti) say the same thing over and over is that they are frustrated that no one hears them. They are Cassandras warning that the Trojan Horse of the CoP isn't all it seems, but the sport of figure skating glides on in blissful ignorance of its impending doom.
_________________________

To dailytg20: You nailed it! This is me:

Why are you having a spiritual experience and practically weeping over those basic spins?

I just had three hours of good cries. Kayne and O'Shea, Polina Edmunds, and Maia and Alex. :yes: :laugh:
 

Princessroja

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Jun 22, 2015
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I think that there are plenty of teens with that kind of dedication, but there are also plenty of other sports to pursue that are less expensive. Our economy is not great. I can't help but think that there are a ton of kids out there who possess the work ethic and natural talent but their families do not have the money to pursue an expensive sport like skating. Team sports available at school are low cost for parents by comparison, in some cases almost no cost. Even expensive traveling teams for some sports would still be incredibly cost effective when compared to skating.I had students who played on select traveling teams in volleyball and basketball. Kids who indeed had the dedication. They spent 4-6 hours a day on their sports. One played on a junior national team. But the costs to families, while expensive, are next to nothing compared to skating. U.S. Figure Skating does not have the resources to fund skaters the way many other federations are able to do.

It is likely that some of the best potential talent in the U.S. quietly slips away at very young ages because it is simply not financially viable for families.

Louisa05, I think that's a huge part of it. I know I was fascinated with skating at a young age and wanted desperately to take lessons, but it was too expensive. And I should say that my parents were willing and able to pay for pre-professional ballet classes six days a week, so we weren't exactly living in abject poverty. But skating still was much more expensive. Dance was probably a good $500/month for me on average, maybe more, but skating can be what, four times that at least? Very few families have that kind of money to spend on *one child's* *single activity*.
 

louisa05

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Louisa05, I think that's a huge part of it. I know I was fascinated with skating at a young age and wanted desperately to take lessons, but it was too expensive. And I should say that my parents were willing and able to pay for pre-professional ballet classes six days a week, so we weren't exactly living in abject poverty. But skating still was much more expensive. Dance was probably a good $500/month for me on average, maybe more, but skating can be what, four times that at least? Very few families have that kind of money to spend on *one child's* *single activity*.

A friend of mine had a daughter who expressed interest in skating when she was young. They didn't even consider it. She also ended up in dance and as a senior in HS is pre-professional in ballet, dancing six days a week. They spend just under $10,000 a year on ballet for her to dance at that elite level. Skating at the senior level can run 6X that cost. So...yeah. It is not a problem of desire or dedication lacking in American kids/teens.
 

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
I think that there are plenty of teens with that kind of dedication, but there are also plenty of other sports to pursue that are less expensive. Our economy is not great. I can't help but think that there are a ton of kids out there who possess the work ethic and natural talent but their families do not have the money to pursue an expensive sport like skating. Team sports available at school are low cost for parents by comparison, in some cases almost no cost. Even expensive traveling teams for some sports would still be incredibly cost effective when compared to skating.I had students who played on select traveling teams in volleyball and basketball. Kids who indeed had the dedication. They spent 4-6 hours a day on their sports. One played on a junior national team. But the costs to families, while expensive, are next to nothing compared to skating. U.S. Figure Skating does not have the resources to fund skaters the way many other federations are able to do.

It is likely that some of the best potential talent in the U.S. quietly slips away at very young ages because it is simply not financially viable for families.

And when parents are pushing their kids into sports and spending money on a sport they are probably much more likely to spend it on a sport where there is college scholarship opportunities.
 

Eclair

Medalist
Joined
Dec 10, 2012
I don't think the "new" judging system helped with the television watching popularity in the United States, though it is not 100% responsible for the lower ratings. The focus is now on tiny details of edges and rotations. A program with multiple wrong edges and underrotations can still look good to someone watching on television, if the skater skates to a well-liked song, has a nice costume, expresses the music well and DOESN'T FALL. When clean-looking programs get low scores because of things that can only be seen on instant replay, some viewers will get mad. Those who are really, really into skating or have skated themselves may understand.

What you have now is an upscale sport with a cult following, instead of a sport for the masses. Those who want to study or be schooled in why it's so bad to take off on the wrong edge will pay the money for Ice Network and those who think it's petty will not.

For professional figure skating writers and those who made a lot of money when it was a sport for the masses, this is not a good thing. The 6.0 system may have been deeply flawed, but it was fun. A lot of the fun is gone. The flags of the countries and seeing who gave what score to whom was fun, and the wildly differing programs were fun. Seeing everyone spend minutes staring at their feet while doing level 4 footwork is not fun. Why do the Japanese and Russians think it is fun? They probably don't, but they have the stars right now, so the popularity of the sport is probably at least partially flag waving, as it was in the US for so many years. Those who don't care if they never hear their country's national anthem at the Olympics but like individuals of various countries will not be upset at figure skating's current state, but many others will.

Brennan's other point is about the lack of stars of late, except for ice dancing. I suspect, though can't prove, that teenagers are different today. The pool of kids willing to sign away their lives to practice the right edge is probably shrinking due to the internet, cell phones, attitude changes, and a perceived lack of payoff for stage parents. I teach in one of the top high schools in the country, and I don't know if any of my kids would be willing to do it.

if it really is the IJS, then how do you explain that it's popular in other countries?
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
Record Breaker
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Mar 3, 2014
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if it really is the IJS, then how do you explain that it's popular in other countries?

Well, it's the effects of IJS, not IJS itself.

And I have no idea why it hasn't affected other countries. The thread is about US figure skating.

After all, other countries loooove soccer. Go crazy over it. Watch it and love it. The US could care less. For over 40 years I've heard, Americans just need to see good soccer played, they need to understand the rules of soccer, once they do, they'll love it. Well no, not really. So I don't think the argument "it works in other countries" is valid here. Maybe it *should* be, but it isn't.....
 

Princessroja

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A friend of mine had a daughter who expressed interest in skating when she was young. They didn't even consider it. She also ended up in dance and as a senior in HS is pre-professional in ballet, dancing six days a week. They spend just under $10,000 a year on ballet for her to dance at that elite level. Skating at the senior level can run 6X that cost. So...yeah. It is not a problem of desire or dedication lacking in American kids/teens.

It's really such a shame. I'm finally taking Basic Skills lessons now as an adult for fun. They're super affordable at this level (how far I'll be able to afford it who knows), but I've always wondered how families like the Aarons or the Golds can do not just one but multiple children in the sport at higher levels. It's incredibly cost-prohibitive, especially in this economy. The government-run system like China or Russia has huge drawbacks in other ways, but I'm sure more talent gets found that way. Not sure if it's worth it overall, but still, the talent gets found.
 

OniBan

Final Flight
Joined
May 8, 2014
if it really is the IJS, then how do you explain that it's popular in other countries?

this.

also I notice that people whining how IJS took the 'fun' out of things don't seem to bring it up when US teams do so well in ice dancing @_@
Sure IJS has its flaws but it also has its pros, and I personally think it's here to stay. So get on with the program.
Get the audience educated if they 'don't get it'. The NBC technical chart during the recent US nationals is doing a good job of that. US audience has to be educated to stop being appeased with 'sensationalism' and 'over the top drama' and appreciate figure skating for what it is - the beauty of the sport, not the torrid details of the who and what.

The thing to make a sport fun to watch? Keep winning. Japan became skating crazy when Shizuka Arakawa won the Olympics, and they rode on that wave ever since. I don't know how it will go once the likes of Hanyu etc go beyond their competitive career, but they have a strong foundation now.

Perhaps there's a period of greatness and a period of downfall, and the current dearth of figure skating in US now may be the 'downfall' period after having such a long period of success in years long past.
Good things can't stay forever but by the same principle, bad times don't last forever too.
Maybe the success of figure skaters elsewhere in the world would've have inspired young skaters in US who may be champons of the future, who knows? There seems to be quite a few promising ones in the recent US Nationals, and I for one can't wait to see how they would progress in the future.
 
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