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Thread: who should skate to SWAN LAKE?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonnyCoop
    Or someone could just portray the lake..... Actually, if any one of the stranger French skaters should happen to see this, I've probably just given them an idea......

    I have a feeling an ice dance team will pick this up. The finale (dance of death thing in the end) has a rhythm that dancers can use and not be breaking the rules...

    how scary! irina lobacheva can dye the skirt in her oly costume green and it'll be seaweed LOL

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4dogknight
    Back to Swan Lake. After so many years of dance, I really can't stand listening to a lot of the 'ballet' music. When you hear the same music over,and over,and over,and over, etc., day in, day out, year in, year out, you'd rather have root canal than listen to it one more time. I more or less tune out the music when I watch a skater perform to 'ballet' music.
    I have a question for the ballet-o-philes. To me, it would seem like ballet music ought to be ideal for figure skating, because it was composed specifically as an accompaniment to movement.

    But then, the kind of movement that ballerinas do -- a lot of little mincing steps en pointe, for instance -- is really quite different from the long gliding of a figure skater. So maybe this music isn't so generical suited for skating programs after all. (?)

    Mathman

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    I have a question for the ballet-o-philes. To me, it would seem like ballet music ought to be ideal for figure skating, because it was composed specifically as an accompaniment to movement.

    But then, the kind of movement that ballerinas do -- a lot of little mincing steps en pointe, for instance -- is really quite different from the long gliding of a figure skater. So maybe this music isn't so generical suited for skating programs after all. (?)

    Mathman
    Most skaters choose the most "skateable" sections in the ballet suite, to minimize the bouréeing en toe a-la Oksana Baiul. I agree with you, though, that I think skating should be limited to more sweeping music, like the ones used in modern dancing.

  4. #64
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    Ballet music is composed primarily to accompany movement. Skaters and choreographers usually choose the most recognizable, i.e. the most melodic, lyric, dramatic sections. Over familiarity with these sections could be a problem. Choosing some lack luster music sections from famous ballet, e.g. swan lake, for the purpose of avoiding over use music sections does not make much sense. Tchaikovsky was very gifted in melody, but he was not the most brilliant orchestrator. Some of the filler sections from his swan lake is very forgetable. When skaters / choreographers choose some of these lack luster filler sections, to me that is plain boring, and there is nothing refreshing about it.

    Ballet music is used a lot in skating? For the story? drama? I wish choreographers will try some other genre, e.g. symphonic / tone poems. There are plenty of drama, lyricism, and story to this genre. Maybe Plushy will skate to Strauss' Don Juan. Maybe Cohen will try Smetana's Moldau (since she already skated to a lake, Moldau will be consistent with the water theme) . Robin / Sasha's water down / filler versions of the lake is not masterpiece material.
    Last edited by rtureck; 06-30-2004 at 12:48 PM.

  5. #65
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    Much of the music in the 3 ballets of Tschaikowsky are drivel, imo. I am sure he hated composing for the choreographer (and it was Petipa) telling him he needs 8 bars of brio here; 8 bars of adagio,there., etc. Poor Petr had to comply, he needed the money.

    I disagree with you on his orchestrations. I think he was brilliant with orchestrations and some of that ballet drivel shows it. His concertos and symphonies are well orchestrated.

    Ballanchine on the other hand used music already composed and made the dancers dance to the music as it was composed. Tough on dancers! because the orchestra leader was told not to follow them but play it as the composer wrote it. Mr. B did work with Stavrinsky and a few other composers, but their work was a genuine collaboration rather than an order for 8 bars of this and 8 bars of that.

    Figure skaters have no choice but to follow the music as it is played on the recording, and therein lies the problem of figure skaters trying to keep up with the composers. Those long telegraphic entries into jumps are not musical, for example.

    Joe

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    Those long telegraphic entries into jumps are not musical, for example.

    Joe
    No, they're not, but they could be choreographed into the music better. I saw Julia Sebestyen a few seasons ago telegraph just about every single one of her jumps, yet she had appeared to choreograph the telegraphing into the program so it was done TO the music so the overall effect wasn't nearly as objectionable as it can sometimes be. There are several compositions out there that would lend themselves to this, and several skaters who should look into it.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonnyCoop
    No, they're not, but they could be choreographed into the music better. I saw Julia Sebestyen a few seasons ago telegraph just about every single one of her jumps, yet she had appeared to choreograph the telegraphing into the program so it was done TO the music so the overall effect wasn't nearly as objectionable as it can sometimes be. There are several compositions out there that would lend themselves to this, and several skaters who should look into it.

    I can imagine a skater doing a sweeping rocker into a triple lutz and that could be very musical, but to stare down the ice in preparation for a triple lutz would not in my view be musical unless the actual music called for a long pause. I think the judges under the CoP may deduct for long preparations.

    Joe

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    I have a question for the ballet-o-philes. To me, it would seem like ballet music ought to be ideal for figure skating, because it was composed specifically as an accompaniment to movement.

    But then, the kind of movement that ballerinas do -- a lot of little mincing steps en pointe, for instance -- is really quite different from the long gliding of a figure skater. So maybe this music isn't so generical suited for skating programs after all. (?)

    Mathman
    Mathman:

    Depends on the skater and the choreoography. Ballet music and classical music period seem the perfect fit for figure skating. For instance, some skaters like Jeff Buttle pay more attention to detail so ballet music is perfect for their style of skating. Another skater, like Elvis Stojko, would not feel comfortable skating to ballet music so it would not work. It just depends on the skater's style.

    Ballet music in itself certainly works for skating, but the skater must really have a "balletic" quality about their skating - Emanuel Sandhu studies ballet - this helps a skater with poise and presentation.

    I for one, love ballet music and rather enjoy it when skaters use this musical form.





  9. #69
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    With all due respect to Michelle Kwan - and I consider her to be one of the best skaters of all time - she isn't the skater to interpret "Swan Lake". Michelle skates with a lot of heart - as her brilliant 2004 US long program showed - but that doesn't mean she can skate to every kind of music. "Swan Lake" requires a skater with a particular style, such as Oksana Baiul, who skated on her "toes" to this piece of music.

    Sasha Cohen does a good job of interpreting "Swan Lake", but she can't hold a candle to the young Oksana, in my view.

  10. #70
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    I think Michelle in general skates better to more "off the beaten track", unusual music- her programs to "been done" music such as Scheherezade and Tosca just don't soar as much as some of her earlier ones which were done to music that no-one else would even attempt. Granted, part of this is due to her not working with Lori Nichol anymore (and say what you want about Sarah Kawaharah, I find her to be HIGHLY over-rated as a choregrapher), but I think in part is also has to do with the fact that Michelle Kwan is a thinker; I think she responds better to an elaborate unusual pice that makes her think more and come up with more creative moves. Just a theory, anyway. "Swan Lake" I think would be way too pedestrian for her.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFan4Life
    With all due respect to Michelle Kwan - and I consider her to be one of the best skaters of all time - she isn't the skater to interpret "Swan Lake". Michelle skates with a lot of heart - as her brilliant 2004 US long program showed - but that doesn't mean she can skate to every kind of music. "Swan Lake" requires a skater with a particular style, such as Oksana Baiul, who skated on her "toes" to this piece of music.

    Sasha Cohen does a good job of interpreting "Swan Lake", but she can't hold a candle to the young Oksana, in my view.

    ITA on all of the above.

  12. #72
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    I preferred Sasha's skate to SL (althought I wish skaters would stop using it). Sasha didn't do the ballet; she skated to the music which like Rudi Galindo was ok with me.

    Oksana for me did an imitation of a ballerina dancing to SL. I found her cute.

    Joe

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFan4Life

    Sasha Cohen does a good job of interpreting "Swan Lake", but she can't hold a candle to the young Oksana, in my view.
    I absolutely agree, and IMHO Sasha's SL is not anywhere near the tops compare to other skaters.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonnyCoop
    I think Michelle in general skates better to more "off the beaten track", unusual music- her programs to "been done" music such as Scheherezade and Tosca just don't soar as much as some of her earlier ones which were done to music that no-one else would even attempt. Granted, part of this is due to her not working with Lori Nichol anymore (and say what you want about Sarah Kawaharah, I find her to be HIGHLY over-rated as a choregrapher), but I think in part is also has to do with the fact that Michelle Kwan is a thinker; I think she responds better to an elaborate unusual pice that makes her think more and come up with more creative moves. Just a theory, anyway. "Swan Lake" I think would be way too pedestrian for her.
    You nailed it, JonnyCoop. I agree with this assessment 100%

    Mathman

  15. #75
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    A simple answer: Nobody. Ever again.

    It's been done to death. How about something fresh?

    Whenever I hear a skater performing to Swan Lake, or any number pieces, the terms "hackneyed," "overused" and "cliched" come to mind.

    Skaters seem to take such great care to perfect their routines, yet the music sometimes seems like an afterthought. I understand that not everyone can be like Kurt Browning and have original music made specifically FOR a program, but stuff like Swan Lake is the musical equivalent of a prostitute. Why go where absolutely EVERYONE has gone before?

    Think outside the box.

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