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The Hardest Combination Jump - Ladies

jkun

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
I meant a combination with a 3lz on the end... which actually might not be possible...

It's not possible. If you jump counter-clockwise you can only do a combination with the left inside edge (ex. X-1Lo-3F, X-1Lo-3S) or with the right outside edge (X-3T, X-3Lo). Axel and lutz can't be done as a second jump in a combination (mostly due to how a combination is defined: the skating edge can't be changed before the jump). For example, you COULD physically manage to do a 3A-1Lo-3Lz, in fact many argue that Plushenko's 3A-1Lo-3F at the 2002 olympics was a wrong edge flip, and without any sort of entrance distinction, it is rather like a lutz. That jump combination, however, doesn't actually fulfill the requirements of a combination--it is actually a sequence.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I've never seen it, but one that would totally drop my jaw is a 3loop/half loop/triple sal/triple toe

Under the current rules, that would count as a four-jump combination, which is not an allowed element, so therefore it would get 0 points.

Under earlier IJS rules, it would have counted as a jump sequence, with a point value equal to 80% of the two highest value jumps in the sequence (3Lo and 3S). So it wouldn't have earned enough points to be worth the difficulty.

The closest thing you could see under today's rules and today's skill levels would be 3S+3T+3Lo true combination.

In theory, it might be possible to do something like one-foot triple salchow (landing on the back inside edge of the "wrong" landing foot) directly into triple salchow, and then a triple toe or triple loop afterward, but in practice I don't think anyone would be able to do it.
 

StitchMonkey

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
In theory, it might be possible to do something like one-foot triple salchow (landing on the back inside edge of the "wrong" landing foot) directly into triple salchow, and then a triple toe or triple loop afterward, but in practice I don't think anyone would be able to do it.

.... Do we have a clip of this? I want to see it?

Although now that you mention it.

I wonder if we might start seeing a skaters adding an extra rotation to the loop but still landing on the "wrong" foot.

So basically a 3X+2L+3S or 3X+1.5+3S if you prefer. It would make 2 full revolution and would land on the 1/2 loop foot/"wrong" foot/Salchow take off foot - however you want to phrase it. Would this be allowed. Or should i first be asking would it be possible?
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
The closest I've ever seen is an attempt at one-foot triple salchow into double flip -- it's not successful because he taps his right foot on the ice before picking in for the double flip.

So it's hard to see whether it would be possible to hold the back inside edge with good flow and control of the upper body check to be able to put another triple salchow after it.

Triple salchow technique in general has advanced since the 1970s, but no one's been working on one-foot triple or even double salchows lately, so trying to learn it would mean starting from scratch and probably giving up points that could have been earned elsewhere in the process.

I can only fantasize that some top jumper coming back from a landing leg injury would play around with one-foot axels and salchows before being allowed to start landing normal jump landings again.

And yes, a one-foot "double half loop" (double loop landed on the opposite foot) would be a more likely next step in the development of three-jump combos ending in salchow (or flip).
 

lishazard

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
I meant a combination with a 3lz on the end... which actually might not be possible...

It can be possible if you can do a 3Lz from the opposite direction, so you land your first jump on the outside edge, and use that landing edge to go into your opposite direction 3Lz. Or I guess, since we're talking hypotheticals, you can do the FIRST jump from your opposite direction (it can be a single, since top skaters can do opposite direction singles), and then the 3Lz in your natural direction. That might be more achievable.

I'd be super impressed if anyone can pull that off!

More on topic, I can't wait to see Eun Soo and Ye Rim go up against Marin and Yuna next year on the JGP. I'm especially excited about how Eun Soo develops over the next few years.
 

ks777

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
The hardest combination is 3axel/3toe done by Midori but not in a competition.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Or I guess, since we're talking hypotheticals, you can do the FIRST jump from your opposite direction (it can be a single, since top skaters can do opposite direction singles), and then the 3Lz in your natural direction. That might be more achievable.

single walley, opposite-direction single walley, triple lutz -- there are no steps between the opposite walley landing and the lutz takeoff, but he does hold the BO edge long enough to readjust that it doesn't quite feel like a jump combination. We'd have to see if anyone can do that with a listed jump takeoff, even a single and less pause.

Of course there's no incentive to do it with a listed jump and waste a combo slot that way for fewer points.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
I think 3z-1lo-3s-2t will be all the rage one day.
 

andyjo24

Medalist
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Thanks. I hope she can bounce back to form. Such strong SS and interpretation living within that girl.

I want to see her come back too! It's upsetting to see how successful Evgenia is right now when just a year or two ago, the two were rivals.
 

leafygreens

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
The ISI skaters who pass FS 10 have possibly done a double in the opposite direction. One of the test requirements is "Double Jump to the Right and Double Jump to the Left (not in sequence) or Triple Toe Assisted Jump/ Double Loop Jump Combination." So if they can't do a triple they might choose the opposite double. That would, in theory, make it possible for the back-end jump to be a lutz.
 
R

rafapab

Guest

This Year , we also have Polina Tsurskaya who make 3Lz-3T-2T in ISU compétition , she have 13.00 Pts (base value 11.60)

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1516/jgppol2015/jgppol2015_JuniorLadies_FS_Scores.pdf
http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1516/jgpsvk2015/jgpsvk2015_JuniorLadies_FS_Scores.pdf

I Think , it's the jump who have more points this year in ISU competition , Has you he there had somebody who had more than 13.00 points this year ?
 
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