bugs are smarter than we are
Since Mel wasn't around at the crucifixion, he can't know exactly what was done (in terms of the amount of blood, gore, etc). It was definitely his interpretation, and his ulterior motive was to promote his version of his religion.
Originally Posted by euterpe
Nothing wrong with making money. I'm sure the President would agree with that point.
Champion Skater (Vicariously)
Some people need to simmer down and remember its just a movie. I am always up for stimulating debate, but I dont consider arguing back and forth over the merits or intentions of a film maker is an actual political debate.
Just because the movie openly has an agenda and perspective, does not make it fiction. Things taken out of context are still true events even if they are presented in a scewed fashion, and to assume that the viewers will not be able to discern this means that you dont think very highly about those watching it. Primary Colors is a better example of fiction, and it was just as controversial at the time.
First of all, even though I'm a liberal and agree with Moore on many things, this doesn't mean I take everything he says as gospel. If there's something that strikes me as "off" I will do the research myself. Liberals CAN think for themselves, you know. And I'm even willing to criticize other liberals....
Not to get to in the Passion thing, but Mel's version wasn't taken directly out of the New Testament. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but his version of the Passion was taken from an 18th century "vision."
Oh, and whoever went off on Kara, that wasn't too cool. You could've made your point without a lot of name calling and insults.
Ooops - didn't mean to take your comments out of context .
Originally Posted by Longhornliz
What I did to your post, according to what I have heard, (haven't had the opportunity to see the film - and to be honest probably won't mainly because I very rarely go to theaters), is exactly what Moore did. One scene, apparently, shows Moore confronting a Republican Congressman about whether or not he would send his kids into Iraq. It then showed the Congressman turning away from the camera. What it didn't show was the man's actual response, which was to say that he didn't have kids that age, but if he did he would be proud if they decided to serve (I'm paraphrasing what I heard).
Anyone can turn truth into fiction, and fiction into truth, if they so desire. Unfortunately, there are folks out there who can't tell the difference. (This statement is not aimed at you, Longhornliz - it is a generalization.)
Last edited by sk8er1964; 06-24-2004 at 10:27 PM.
Champion Skater (Vicariously)
I would still disagree that it is fiction to take things out of context as such. I watch reality shows way too much and they do the exact thing you did to my post and what is described to have happened in F911... but it is still generating a perspective, not creating a story line about fictional characters or events.
"Anyone can turn truth into fiction, and fiction into truth.."
Aint' it the truth!!!! That's exactly what got us in the middle of this big fat Iraq mess in the first place. Bush/Cheney/Powell/Rice doing exactly that. Playing fast and loose with the truth.
There seems to be a few questions arising from these posts:
l. Did Moore lie on many if not most of the scenes as are shown in the movie, and did he have an ulterior motive for mking the film other than his admitting it was to discredit the need to go to war?
2 Did the President lie about the WMD as the reason to go to war, and was he concerned about other things in Iraq?
3. Did Mel Gibson distort the story of the Crucifixion, and was he trying to put another message forward?
My answers are as follows
1. I haven't seen the movie but I will so I have no opinion right now.
2. As a peacenik, I have strong anti views on war.
3. I have not seen the movie and probably will not, so no opinion.
Originally Posted by chuckm
First of all, I find your response to my tongue in cheek post quite offensive and a personal attack.
I find it offensive that because I am young and currently unemployed you assume that I am some stupid twit who follows her friends.
And the comment that because I am not American I do not matter, is a narrow self-centered view.
I am also a highly educated intelligent person who can think for herself. I arrived at my political views through my upbringing with two conservative parents and my university education. I have a BA with First Class Honours in Canadian history. The First Class means I had straight A's for my university career, in case you didn't know. I also had a minor in political science and media studies. I was ranked second in my history graduating class. I have been accepted into graduate school starting this fall.
You can think whatever way you wish. The problem I have is understanding why people have the narrow views they do.
I am very insulted that you, a person I don't recall speaking to here before, has attacked my intelligence at such a level.
I do not need some old out of touch tight *** telling me my opinion is not only uneducated but also wrong.
Have a nice day.
Good response, Kara bear!!!!
Chuckm: About the only thing you left out in your "I'm older and therfore wiser" response was the standard experience of walking five miles a day to school, in snow without shoes, uphill both ways...
(And before you decide to to dismiss me for MY lack of experience, I'm a physician in my mid-forties, so I've had one or two "life experiences" along my merry little way.)
Age is not of relevance here, nor quite frankly, is country of origin. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. That is what allows us to BE FREE here in both countries. I think it would be wise for people to remember that.
I'm buying your popcorn, KaraBear!!
bugs are smarter than we are
Do you want soda or candy to go with your popcorn
Originally Posted by Aloft04
Diet Coke, please. I feel better about the yellow grease, er, butter then....
and a straw for Kara Bear.
What's that you say? Oh.... You were talking to Kara Bear.
While you're up would you get me a big Diet Coke and some Raisinettes??
Last edited by Aloft04; 06-25-2004 at 12:13 PM.
It’s too bad that in quoting my post you didn’t include the line from your post that precipitated mine, namely:
”I still have problems understanding why people say that Moore is spreading lies and misinformation. But then again, I have no idea why there are right wingers still around in this day and age.”
What that said was that a person who didn’t like Moore’s distorted view of a political figure was out of touch, out of date and irrelevant. You don’t consider that insulting?
Go back and read what I actually wrote and what you quoted.
My post made no mention or reference to the education and intelligence of anyone other than myself. Nowhere did I say that your opinion was either right or wrong. What I did say is that I had a right to my opinion without being belittled for it, or dismissed as irrelevant.
Learning acquired from a college education is valuable, but until that learning is applied in the world outside of academia, it lacks the perspective gained by working alongside and interacting with people who have different backgrounds, views and experiences. Becoming independent and solely responsible for one’s basic needs inevitably makes one more accepting of others who think and feel differently about social and political issues. It’s called tolerance.
Sadly, your response is as intolerant as your original insult:
“I do not need some old out of touch tight *** telling me my opinion is not only uneducated but also wrong.”
I certainly agree that diversity of opinion is important. Obviously, my opinion is different from yours, and that's OK too. I think we have both stated our opinions without implied and/or inferred insults, and that is reasonable discourse. I am sure in your career you have met and interacted frequently with others whose views are different from your own.
However, I'm disappointed in your approval of Kara's broadside. Name-calling has never been an appropriate or useful way of resolving differences.
Soooo...I guess this means we won't be picking you up for the movie??
chuckm: Kara's "broadside" and name calling was no worse than your contemptuous dismissal of her as a seemingly stupid child who has no point. Sorry, but I think you deserved and asked for every barrel she fired at you.
And yes, we do agree to disagree. I just have a personal bone to pick with anyone who pats a younger person on the head dismissively and suggests they go play with their toys because they are too immature to possibly have a point and they lack experience in the "real world." That happened to me too many times when I was a young, female physician-in -training. Its insulting and uncalled for when a young person expresses an opinion in a reasonable manner. Kara is obviously intelligent, and her youth doesn't detract from that. While you may consider her reply less than mature, yours to her wasn't exactly a stellar example of either maturity or fairness. So again, we'll just have to disagree on that one.