Announcing World Teams

noskates · Feb 23, 2016

Well Karne - I'm not taking the bait. If I were the only one with similar opinions it would be one thing......but alas and alack, I am not! I don't wish any ill will on ANY skater and will always applaud Max and any other US skater for their successes. But I don't fantasize about results and I don't keep hoping and wishing and wishing and hoping.

Giselle · Feb 23, 2016

Moxiejan said:
McLaughlin & Brubaker finished 5th at Nationals, with only the top 2 going. Had they been third, they probably would have been selected. But just too much to move them past THREE other teams.

Denney & Coughlin missed both the 2013 Nationals & 2013 Worlds, due to injury, and thus didn't have enough "body of work" to make up for finishing 3rd when there were only 2 spots.

Are the criterias that specific (last year's National & Worlds placement?). IMO McLaughlin & Brubaker were the best US pair of the quad by far (winning Jr. Worlds, GP medals, making the GP final...).
Denney & Coughlin were injuried at the beginning of 2013 but competed in the GP series before Nationals and were still the best US team.

I still feel that an US pair only needs to skate lights out at 1 competiton (Nationals before the Olympics) to be sent, no matter what they did during the last 4 years.
Team Florida usually excells at this and peak at the right time and Delilah's skaters (who are the favourites) are the ones who falter at that moment. I'm really hoping it doesn't happen to Scimeca & Knierim. They are not my favourite team but I admire their how much they've improved and went back to basics.

I totally agree that Ashley was sent to the Olympics insead of Mirai but I still think that at least Denney & Coughlin should have been sent too :slink:

I thought the explanation at the time was that Ashley has an outside shot at a medal but Denney & Coughlin no shot at all.

karne · Feb 23, 2016

JackRoast said:
As to Gracy GOLD her "successes" can be discussed only with USFSA and her sponsors.

Well, that's one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read on this board. The USFS didn't make Gracie land those triples. The sponsors didn't make her have that booty-kicking free skate in St Paul.

ice coverage · Feb 23, 2016

Giselle said:
... Denney & Coughlin were injuried at the beginning of 2013 but competed in the GP series before Nationals and were still the best US team. ...

The USFS criteria published in advance of Sochi selection were:

The athlete selection procedure for the 2014 Olympic Winter Games is as follows:
Team members will be selected by U.S. Figure Skating’s International Committee, taking into consideration the results of events in the following order of importance:
• 2014 Prudential U.S. Figure Skating Championships
• 2013 ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final
• 2013 ISU World Figure Skating Championships
• 2013 ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating events
• 2013 Four Continents Championships
• 2013 Prudential U.S. Figure Skating Championships
• 2013 World Junior Figure Skating Championships
• 2013 ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final
Skaters who do not compete at these events due to injury or illness, but who meet the other criteria, may also be considered for selection.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...ture-prospects&p=953430&viewfull=1#post953430

Zhang/Bartholomay's record re the criteria:

2014 - U.S. Championships - 2nd
2013 - Cup of China - 6th
2013 - Skate America - 7th
2013 - Four Continents Championships - 4th
2013 - U.S. Championships - 3rd
http://web.icenetwork.com/skaters/team/bartholomay_zhang

Denney/Coughlin's record re the criteria (they missed 2013 Nats):

2014 - U.S. Championships - 3rd
2013 - Trophee Bompard - 3rd
2013 - Skate America - 4th
http://web.icenetwork.com/skaters/team/coughlin_denney

nolangoh · Feb 23, 2016

Yes. I think the rationale is to send those who could potentially medal at these events. The Japanese Skating Fed. made it clear that the considerations include performance at Nationals, GPF, season best and World standing etc, which is kind of a 'potential strength' strategy. And the Russian team still has not been decided, will that be confirmed at a test-skate event later? I am not sure how they work, could someone enlighten me?

edwinaskater1943 · Feb 23, 2016

karne said:
Perhaps I'll be contrary and say that certain skaters should not expect to underperform all season, show up at Nationals with two decent skates and expect to go ahead of those skaters who had had much better results in the first half of the season AND finished ahead at Nationals!

If you are referring to Brooklee and Kailani didn't Brooklee beat her in Germany? So we send Kailani to senior worlds and monopolise all the JGP spots in junior because it's really only about one skater who is still junior elegible. All this talk of team Aussie - there is no team interests when such selfish decisions are made only in the interests of pushing one skater over another. They couldn't wait to push Brooklee off worlds who earned us spots at both YOG and olympics. There is no forward thinking or planning when decisions are being made to suit the career of only one skater not the sport as a whole! Your gloating is disgusting and transparent

samm22 · Feb 23, 2016

It's pointless to debate whether or not Mirai should go to worlds because other than world standing it most likely wouldn't effect her. She probably would do similar to how Polina would place if she went (pretty respectable), or if she didn't she would prepare for next season. To be honest, it seems as though Tom and Mirai seem very calm about it everything...she's going to train for worlds in case Polina doesn't have her skates ready or someone gets injured, and then she'll train hard for next season. Is it a shame to see her not go to worlds? Yes. She's peaking right now, and has had two pretty respectable competitions this season (nationals and 4cc) versus Polina's (rather inflated) nationals score. But it doesn't matter, because the team isn't going to change and Mirai is already first alternate. IMO, Mirai and Polina are equal at this point. The "issue" is debatable at best. No result will come of it. No matter what, she's still in a much better place for next season, and she and Tom seem to be (rightfully) looking to the next couple of seasons than a could-have-been worlds spot which was merely endlessnessly debatable

ice coverage · Feb 23, 2016

samm22 said:
It's pointless to debate whether or not Mirai should go to worlds because other than world standing it most likely wouldn't effect her. ...
No matter what, she's still in a much better place for next season, and she and Tom seem to be (rightfully) looking to the next couple of seasons than a could-have-been worlds spot which was merely endlessnessly debatable

Worlds could have had a positive effect on Mirai's USFS funding next season.

If she placed in the top ten at Worlds, she would qualify for Envelope A funding. http://usfigureskating.org/story?id=84105&menu=TeamUSA

As it is, she has qualified only for Tier 1 of Envelope B funding (by placing fourth at Nats).

(That said, I agree that it's good that Mirai is looking ahead. She will perform in a show in NYC this weekend, and will be a guest star at the Ice Chips shows in April in the Boston area.)

skylark · Feb 23, 2016

nolangoh said:
Yes. I think the rationale is to send those who could potentially medal at these events. The Japanese Skating Fed. made it clear that the considerations include performance at Nationals, GPF, season best and World standing etc, which is kind of a 'potential strength' strategy. And the Russian team still has not been decided, will that be confirmed at a test-skate event later? I am not sure how they work, could someone enlighten me?

As golden411's post listing criteria and results (from Zhang/Bartholomay and Denney/Coughlin) showed, USA does it differently. I think it's much better to have objective results as criteria and stick with them, rather than speculating as to which skaters "could potentially medal."

samm22 · Feb 23, 2016

golden411icecoverage said:
Worlds could have had a positive effect on Mirai's USFS funding next season.

If she placed in the top ten at Worlds, she would qualify for Envelope A funding. http://usfigureskating.org/story?id=84105&menu=TeamUSA

As it is, she has qualified only for Tier 1 of Envelope B funding (by placing fourth at Nats).

(That said, I agree that it's good that Mirai is looking ahead. She will perform in a show in NYC this weekend, and will be a guest star at the Ice Chips shows in April in the Boston area.)

Thanks for pointing that out! Funding would definitely be beneficial. Although I guess more of what I was saying was that what's done is done and it seems as though Team Mirai is moving on, so everyone else probably should as well

ice coverage · Feb 23, 2016

edwinaskater1943 said:
If you are referring to Brooklee and Kailani didn't Brooklee beat her in Germany? So we send Kailani to senior worlds and monopolise all the JGP spots in junior because it's really only about one skater who is still junior elegible. All this talk of team Aussie - there is no team interests when such selfish decisions are made only in the interests of pushing one skater over another. They couldn't wait to push Brooklee off worlds who earned us spots at both YOG and olympics. There is no forward thinking or planning when decisions are being made to suit the career of only one skater not the sport as a whole! Your gloating is disgusting and transparent

Your post is completely off base.

Well before your post, karne made clear to whom she was referring. Her comments had nothing to do with Team Australia.

http://goldenskate.com/forum/showth...-World-Teams&p=1379840&viewfull=1#post1379840 (post #37)

karne · Feb 23, 2016

golden411icecoverage said:
Your post is completely off base.

Well before your post, karne made clear to whom she was referring. Her comments had nothing to do with Team Australia.

http://goldenskate.com/forum/showth...-World-Teams&p=1379840&viewfull=1#post1379840 (post #37)

Do not trouble yourself, golden. You have quoted a poster who delights in being a negative conspiracy theorist and has made up her mind that I am "everything that is wrong with Australian skating".

Apparently, this person believes it is entirely impossible to adore both Brooklee and Kailani, as though they are mutually exclusive of each other.

FlattFan · Feb 23, 2016

drivingmissdaisy said:
Mirai skated well, but I'm not sure how strict the panel was given that neither she nor Satoko earned a single <, when Mirai usually gets about 3-5 in a single event.

What the hell does this mean? Satoko did not earn a single < at a lot of events. GPF for example. Look with your own eyes to see where Mirai should have gotten <. Reputation judging much?

edwinaskater1943 · Feb 23, 2016

golden411icecoverage said:
Your post is completely off base.

Well before your post, karne made clear to whom she was referring. Her comments had nothing to do with Team Australia.

http://goldenskate.com/forum/showth...-World-Teams&p=1379840&viewfull=1#post1379840 (post #37)

apologies but maybe it's due to past comments she has made where it's very evident where her loyalties lie. Part of the reason more people are obviously joining these threads is so all of you don't just get a one sided view.

Alex D · Feb 23, 2016

Thoughts

I always felt that a min score and national placement works best. You need to give skaters a goal, a goal that they can achieve and if they do, you will send them to worlds. By not having these goals, a skater will never feel safe or better put, they will never be able to really rest and as a competitor you need time off, to settle your mind so to speak.

A skater needs to know upfront if he or she will be going and I find the timing of nationals in most countries pretty good for that. You qualify for Europeans or 4 CC and then go to Worlds. The only exception are injuries or a really dramatic change in condition.

As stupid it may sound for some, I do not like to "protect" stars in sports. It is a competition and if you do not succeed, then you can not expect to go further. The whole competition and the pushing of each other to the limits would be negated, if stars always qualify, no matter how others do.

el henry · Feb 23, 2016

skylark said:
As golden411's post listing criteria and results (from Zhang/Bartholomay and Denney/Coughlin) showed, USA does it differently. I think it's much better to have objective results as criteria and stick with them, rather than speculating as to which skaters "could potentially medal."

I agree.

For example, I have read recently, (I do not remember where), that the US is the only country that sends the top three finishers in the marathon trials to the Olympic marathons. You could hold five world records, if you finish fourth at the trials, you're not going to the Olympics.

I appreciate the strategy of sports, the rising to the personal challenge, the ability to transcend your mental doubts and skate well when it matters. I want to see who has the best program on the ice, not who has the best program on paper. The top three have earned it.

(That said, this is *in no way* a commentary on any specific choices for any team anywhere, including the US Olys, WTT, Worlds, etc. Just my general opinion, and I'm sticking to it! :biggrin:

)

NanaPat · Feb 25, 2016

4everchan said:
liam is the worst choice.... i'd have nam or kevin or even eladj before liam

I agree. And for me, add Nadeau and Messing to that list of skaters I prefer.

NanaPat · Feb 26, 2016

edwinaskater1943 said:
apologies but maybe it's due to past comments she has made where it's very evident where her loyalties lie. Part of the reason more people are obviously joining these threads is so all of you don't just get a one sided view.

A proper apology would read "I'm sorry I misinterpreted the comment. I should have read the comments before it, instead of taking it totally out of context and attacking something that was neither said nor implied."

See, that isn't so hard.

Climbs down off soapbox..... :bed:

Baxel · Feb 26, 2016

It happens in other sports, but they are mostly timed sports such as swimming and running.

Baxel · Feb 26, 2016

el henry said:
I agree.

For example, I have read recently, (I do not remember where), that the US is the only country that sends the top three finishers in the marathon trials to the Olympic marathons. You could hold five world records, if you finish fourth at the trials, you're not going to the Olympics.

I appreciate the strategy of sports, the rising to the personal challenge, the ability to transcend your mental doubts and skate well when it matters. I want to see who has the best program on the ice, not who has the best program on paper. The top three have earned it.

(That said, this is *in no way* a commentary on any specific choices for any team anywhere, including the US Olys, WTT, Worlds, etc. Just my general opinion, and I'm sticking to it!)

Apologies. I should have replied with the above quote. It happens in other timed sports, such as running and swimming. The difficulty is judged sports.

Announcing World Teams

noskates

Giselle

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605

nolangoh

Steps and Spirals enthusiast

edwinaskater1943

samm22

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset

samm22

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

FlattFan

Match Penalty

edwinaskater1943

Alex D

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

NanaPat

NanaPat

Baxel

Baxel

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