Will Mao Asada Make It to the 2018 Games?

I feel like it all depends on her. If SHE wants it, and if SHE believes that she can do it, she will. She is the best in the World by far when she is on.

All in all, I believe that this season was a test. Next season will tell the story. If she doesn't improve at Nationals and Worlds, I don't see her staying until 2018, as much as I would love her to. I am 0 for 5 with my favorites at the Olympics after all. Lbvs! You can do it Mao!!!!!!!

I leave this here. The crown jewel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R3o8ls2zH8&nohtml5=False

KweenAsada said:

I feel like it all depends on her. If SHE wants it, and if SHE believes that she can do it, she will. She is the best in the World by far when she is on.

All in all, I believe that this season was a test. Next season will tell the story. If she doesn't improve at Nationals and Worlds, I don't see her staying until 2018, as much as I would love her to. I am 0 for 5 with my favorites at the Olympics after all. Lbvs! You can do it Mao!!!!!!!

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I fully agree. I am very encouraged by her recent comments that she intends to skate to WIN next season. When she says that, you know she means business!

hurrah said:

I think Mao will continue to train for 3-axel, 3flip-3loop and 3lutz layout during the off-season.

Even though she didn't medal this season, she accomplished alot in terms of jumps:
3flip-3loop ratified
3lutz ratified
3flip-2loop-2loop ratified (no under-rotation and with tano)
solid 3salchow

She's halfway there to achieving a Perfect Mao.

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I feel very good about her jumps too. I have a feeling we will see some great 3Lz jumps from her next season. And I am all for her sticking to a four-triple SP layout - in the current field she needs to go big or go home. I wouldn't mind if she does a 3Sal instead of 3Lz though. The salchow is simply her most consistent jump now!

No matter what I don't want to see a Mao if she struggles. If she remains the level of this season, I would rather her retire. One of my frustrations from Mao is her choreography: it seems to me she just recycles the same type of programs again and again lately...and of course, it is Lori who recycles those programs. I hope if you Mao stays, she goes back Tatiana Tarasova. Russian choreographers are more innovative in general. I really want Mao to bring something new.

hippomoomin said:

No matter what I don't want to see a Mao if she struggles. If she remains the level of this season, I would rather her retire. One of my frustrations from Mao is her choreography: it seems to me she just recycles the same type of programs again and again lately...and of course, it is Lori who recycles those programs. I hope if you Mao stays, she goes back Tatiana Tarasova. Russian choreographers are more innovative in general. I really want Mao to bring something new.

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I am glad that Mao had the strength to battle through two cases of the flu and a knee injury this season, though I wish she hadn't suffered from these setbacks. Otherwise I wouldn't have gotten to be a witness to one of the most moving and artistic performances I have seen: Mao's Madame Butterfly at Worlds. The great love expressed in the comments beneath Mao's LP video speaks for itself. Mao has has faced a lot of difficulties this season, but she certainly has not "regressed to rehashing choreography" , she has actually converted new fans with these innovative and original programs, including her SP and Puttin on the Ritz. Her skating skills, expression, artistry, emotional intensity and ability to seamlessly incorporate professional jazz dance and ballet into her program is unique and I think she does it better than anyone else ever has. Besides, no one else in the women's competition even tries much less lands a triple axel, triple flip and loop or such a beautiful 3 flip / 2 loop / 2 loop with such a picturesque tano, and Mao does not have any excessive pre-rotation. My friends who had never seen her skate felt the same way and liked her performances the most even with the mistakes.

I am not saying Mao didn't have difficulties, but her performances of Madame Butterfly at Worlds and the Japan Open and even to a large extent the one at Nationals, and her SP performance at Cup of China and the Grand Prix Final were fabulous, and the most watched performances of the season among the women. Also, I am willing to accept Mao's decisions on what she wants to skate to because she is the one doing the skating. I do like Tarasova's choreography a lot and I would like to see her skate to another program of hers as well, but I can tell that Mao loves and is inspired by the choreography that Lori gives her. I feel that this is who she is and I embrace it because I feel the sincerity and passion in her performing them. The heavily deflated scoring of Mao's performances has no effect on my view of Mao's greatness. To the contrary, it makes me completely cynical about the legitimacy of the scoring system, as it has many others.

hippomoomin said:

No matter what I don't want to see a Mao if she struggles. If she remains the level of this season, I would rather her retire. One of my frustrations from Mao is her choreography: it seems to me she just recycles the same type of programs again and again lately...and of course, it is Lori who recycles those programs. I hope if you Mao stays, she goes back Tatiana Tarasova. Russian choreographers are more innovative in general. I really want Mao to bring something new.

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her LP suites her style but in no way it is recycled. Interesting your opinion considering that choreographies of the other women are nothing impressive in my opinion. Judges are treating her like a new skater or a nobody, and now she must get better choreography :sarcasm:, of course her mandatory 3 axel, correct edges and fully rotated jumps to stay competing?. She needs to be more than perfect while the other girls can to do whatever. Why a different standard with her? it is not like judges are giving her records and medals.

And she is not demanding anything, she is competing like the other skaters, she did GP when we know many other skip it. She did nationals, she just does her job and hope for the best. She doesn´t complain about scores, or about ISU not rewarding mature skating like others. She put a smile and is even nicer with Evgenia than Elena R. or Yulia who are her compatriots.

chapis said:

her LP suites her style but in no way it is recycled. Interesting your opinion considering that choreographies of the other women are nothing impressive in my opinion. Judges are treating her like a new skater or a nobody, and now she must get better choreography :sarcasm:, of course her mandatory 3 axel, correct edges and fully rotated jumps to stay competing?. She needs to be more than perfect while the other girls can to do whatever. Why a different standard with her? it is not like judges are giving her records and medals.

And she is not demanding anything, she is competing like the other skaters, she did GP when we know many other skip it. She did nationals, she just does her job and hope for the best. She doesn´t complain about scores, or about ISU not rewarding mature skating like others. She put a smile and is even nicer with Evgenia than Elena R. or Yulia who are her compatriots.

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Well, Lori has a visible "lori" style, which may make programs by her look all the same to many people.
As for "mature skating" there is no such point in the scorebook, so not surprisingly it is not rewarded.

Well... She does need to perform better than this season. Once Wakaba and Marin turn seniors, Mao may end up left out of the 4cc and worlds team, as I am not sure if japanese fed will just reserve her a spot for her past achievements.

lol at some of these comments. No one is suggesting that Mao gets special treatment if she doesn't earn her spot on the team.

I think Mao can try different choreographers but I don't think Russian ones are the best. I don't feel their choreography is that innovative
And sometimes it's just tacky (Elena's programs). They also don't suit Mao that well; Lori was great at capturing Mao's flowy style on the ice.

miki88 said:

lol at some of these comments. No one is suggesting that Mao gets special treatment if she doesn't earn her spot on the team.

I think Mao can try different choreographers but I don't think Russian ones are the best. I don't feel their choreography is that innovative
And sometimes it's just tacky (Elena's programs). They also don't suit Mao that well; Lori was great at capturing Mao's flowy style on the ice.

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Well, not everybody agrees. For me, Mao´s programs with Lori are just not my cup of tea. Mao can pull it off because she is Mao, but its pretty generic and boring (for example her long this season).

largeman said:

And I am all for her sticking to a four-triple SP layout - in the current field she needs to go big or go home.

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Agreed. And it's how Mao does things - no playing safe. She's a subtle, flowy, fairy-like skater, but she was always determined and willing to take risks. She's the prime example of steel hidden behind silk, and I hope she continues on like that, carrot happy tech panels or not. Her 3F-3Lo is beautiful to me and I prefer to watch it even over quite a lot of the rotated 3-3Ts (especially 3T-3T!). She landed some of her best 3As ever this season, she can still pull it off!

Mao is a beautiful skater, but let's face it--her triple axel has never been consistent. Without it, she is at a disadvantage because her 3-3's tend to be under-rotated. At any given competition, Mao has the potential to score big and win. We saw it at Sochi (where she should have won the long program) and again at Worlds in 2014. If she is willing to continue on, hoping to go big at the right time, I'm fine with that, though I find it a little sad to see her coming in 7th, like she did in Boston.

jenaj said:

Mao is a beautiful skater, but let's face it--her triple axel has never been consistent. Without it, she is at a disadvantage because her 3-3's tend to be under-rotated. At any given competition, Mao has the potential to score big and win. We saw it at Sochi (where she should have won the long program) and again at Worlds in 2014. If she is willing to continue on, hoping to go big at the right time, I'm fine with that, though I find it a little sad to see her coming in 7th, like she did in Boston.

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I completely agree!

It's a huge problem that her 3A is always on and off. There is never a day we can just sit back and enjoy her program because of the 3A.

Her UR jumps aren't helping much either...

Li'Kitsu said:

Agreed. And it's how Mao does things - no playing safe. She's a subtle, flowy, fairy-like skater, but she was always determined and willing to take risks. She's the prime example of steel hidden behind silk, and I hope she continues on like that, carrot happy tech panels or not. Her 3F-3Lo is beautiful to me and I prefer to watch it even over quite a lot of the rotated 3-3Ts (especially 3T-3T!). She landed some of her best 3As ever this season, she can still pull it off!

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I always respect skaters like Mao who are willing to take big risks.

But the main problem in this case is that it doesn't appear that the risks are paying off. It would make sense that she take risks if there is a lot to gain from them, but the risk/reward ratio appears to be very high in Mao's case.

At this point in time, judges are rewarding skaters for consistency, not risk. Look at Evgenia. She just transitioned from juniors to seniors, and she already surpassed Mao both in terms and technical and presentation scores, which is absurd (for presentation) but that's how the judging system works.

But then again, I can see why Mao is going for the risk factor. She has nothing to lose at this point. She's won everything except the Olympic Gold.

andyjo24 said:

It's a huge problem that her 3A is always on and off. There is never a day we can just sit back and enjoy her program because of the 3A.

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People talk about ladies being consistent with their 3A but none of the men can do quads consistently either. Not even Ito was consistent with her 3A

I wonder why her 2A-3T is getting < on the toe loop. Is she delaying the rotation of the toe loop too much?

jinhamasaki said:

I wonder why her 2A-3T is getting < on the toe loop. Is she delaying the rotation of the toe loop too much?

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It was suggested on another thread that Mao should revert back to her old, inferior technique and do the toe loop like Satoko and Evgenia. The pre-rotation problem is not, apparently, going to be addressed until at least the next Olympics is over by IOC, so it's better to pre-rotate rather than under-rotate under current rules. :confused2:

hurrah said:

It was suggested on another thread that Mao should revert back to her old, inferior technique and do the toe loop like Satoko and Evgenia. The pre-rotation problem is not, apparently, going to be addressed until at least the next Olympics is over by IOC, so it's better to pre-rotate rather than under-rotate under current rules. :confused2:

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I hardly think one is inferior and I don't believe Mao would think or say such things. I actually liked her old technique and I even think Zhenia has beautiful jumps. Satoko....well....not so much. I do however hope Mao skates whatever technique comes the most natural to her. I highly doubt she sits around thinking about what anyone else is doing.

jinhamasaki said:

People talk about ladies being consistent with their 3A but none of the men can do quads consistently either. Not even Ito was consistent with her 3A

I wonder why her 2A-3T is getting < on the toe loop. Is she delaying the rotation of the toe loop too much?

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Exactly. I respect Mao for going for the 3A even though it's really difficult for it to be consistent.

But is it worth doing it when others are doing the "normal" 7-triple program cleanly, while she is struggling to get it right less than half the time in competition?

Or would it be a better time investment for Mao to ditch the 3A and do the "normal" 7-triple program like others and focus on reducing UR/edge issues? (This might be a good approach because she's heads and shoulders above others in terms of PCS if she can go clean).

I think the fact that Mao has never gone through a competition without a UR has hurt her PCS although it shouldn't. When was the last time she didn't have an UR in a competition? Like never unfortunately...

I really really like Mao's go for it attitude. Its the reason I think she'll be back next year and it's kinda cool that inspite of a "go for broke" attitude she is able to maintain and present one of the most beautifully delivered presentations. I think she'll continue to be hit or miss but when she hits it should be huge!

It's too bad we've entered an era of nitpicking and punishing of skaters. It's just my opinion but I'd prefer to see a system that rewards skaters positives more so than one that subtracts for small errors.

I remember watching a TV program on Mao's 21 hours leading up to her Sochi LP and there was the question about why she attempts the 3A despite the jump failing her sometimes. Here is a translation of that done by rosewood@FSU:

Narration: Triple axel is one of Asada's signatures. You can earn the biggest scores for this jump than any other jumps from ladies. That said, you lose lots of points if you makes a mistake on this jump. 3A is a double-edged sword. In fact, Asada had never nailed any clean 3A so far in the season.

Mr Sato: I advised her not to do any 3A till she's in the perfect form with 3As. She had wasted numbers of competitions because of the jump. However, she wanted to do 3As for all that. She had worked hard to do 3As at any cost.

Narration: Why did Asada insist on 3As? Osamu Kato had worked as a full time trainer in JSF since 2000.

1:00 (interview with Osamu Kato recorded recently for this TV show)
Osamu Kato: She always said, "When I don't do everything I have (in my arsenal), I'm not happy at all even though I win." Thus, even in the cases the consistency was not good during training, she had a strong will to do 3As at competitions.. Her mom brought up her in that way too since she was very little. Her mom used to say "Mao can definitely make it in the competition even if she makes mistakes during training." Her way of saying was like "Mao carries out her words no matter what happens."

So even if she wins without the 3A, I don't think she'd be satisfied with herself. I'd rather see her fail the 3A but be content with what she's delivered than to see her win medals but not satisfied with herself, if that makes sense.

Li'Kitsu said:

Agreed. And it's how Mao does things - no playing safe. She's a subtle, flowy, fairy-like skater, but she was always determined and willing to take risks. She's the prime example of steel hidden behind silk, and I hope she continues on like that, carrot happy tech panels or not. Her 3F-3Lo is beautiful to me and I prefer to watch it even over quite a lot of the rotated 3-3Ts (especially 3T-3T!). She landed some of her best 3As ever this season, she can still pull it off!

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That's a beautiful and very fitting description of Mao - and, for me, that's what Tarasova's Swan Lake and Rach brought out and showed us... Mao's grit. However, I don't know if Tarasova is even choreographing any more? Has she done any programs since Mao's Rach?

Anyway, to the discussion in general. I would never write off Mao - and I don't think she is going to abandon the 3A.