Skating daughter always places last

SWP if I remember, was larger when Nevada was in the group. Now you have half of California and AZ.

I know for a lot of clubs in warm weather states, clubs were decimated by the crash in the economy. So many skaters had to quit, ice was just too expensive. Clubs are rebuilding - check out the news from the Stockton Figure Skating Club! - and putting out some strong skaters. Families still tend to be very practical not knowing when bubble will burst so if their skater wasn't a top inter-club skater, they might not go to the expense of regionals when it is out of state, so they just get the top skaters in the area signing up. Interclub is a competition series. I don't know how similar costs are - I think it was 185 for juve and up including an admin fee plus online fee, practice ice is not included, there is a 10 admission fee daily. And you have to drive, stay at a hotel etc... I guess I wouldn't judge based on how many skaters you see at regionals to determine the skating health of a region. For for juv, almost 80 girls participated in the club comp mixer events in one region.

loopy said:

I know for a lot of clubs in warm weather states, clubs were decimated by the crash in the economy. So many skaters had to quit, ice was just too expensive. Clubs are rebuilding - check out the news from the Stockton Figure Skating Club! - and putting out some strong skaters. Families still tend to be very practical not knowing when bubble will burst so if their skater wasn't a top inter-club skater, they might not go to the expense of regionals when it is out of state, so they just get the top skaters in the area signing up. Interclub is a competition series. I don't know how similar costs are - I think it was 185 for juve and up including an admin fee plus online fee, practice ice is not included, there is a 10 admission fee daily. And you have to drive, stay at a hotel etc... I guess I wouldn't judge based on how many skaters you see at regionals to determine the skating health of a region. For for juv, almost 80 girls participated in the club comp mixer events in one region.

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But the crash was nationwide so it should have affected all Regions about equally.

For Regions, all skaters register through USFS so I would assume USFS sets the fee. I know that for South Atlantics, I paid $185 for registration only for my Juv skater. Then there was practice ice ($30 each) and an event admission fee. My point, all regions have equivalent fees.

If you look at the map, SA covers a HUGE geographic area - from Florida to Pennsylvania. I am sure that many parents (regardless of Region) take the same view you expressed in your comment about weighing the expense vs final placement. I know that when my daughter was in Pre-Juv and her non-qualifying Regionals was held in Atlanta, we decided that the expense did not justify the trip. As an fyi - if you live in mid-Florida and wanted to compete at Regionals, last year (Oct 2015) the drive was over 1000 miles, this year (Oct 2014) the drive was down to "only" 875 miles.

The Regional maps are based on 1960s skaters census data so they are 50 years out of date. Back when the USFS map was created, no one skated in the South. If a Southern area even had a rink, it closed down for the summer (at least my local one did growing up in Huntsville, AL in the early 1970s). Now some of the top skaters are coming out of the South - Florida and Dallas.

USFS knows how many skaters are registered at a certain level at any given time. USFS should use those number when determining the how many from each Region should advance. I am advocating for an equitable system.

Another way to look at it, let us suppose that one Region has 26 girls who parents are committed to see their child skate and another Region has 125 girls who parents are committed to see their child skate (these are similar number to what is actually happening at the Juvenile girls level). How may girls should be sent from each Regional to Sectionals? The current system says 4 form each which means in the small region, you get a 15% shot of making it to the Sectionals but in a big region, then it goes down to 3% chance. With that in mind, it is no big surprise that the girls at the top of Nationals (Juv and Intermediate) tend to come from "big" Regions. And Sectionals for "Easterns" is a blood bath because you have 3 big regions all competing against each other.

fyi - Only the girls at Juvenile and Intermediate have these numbers discrepancies across Regions; by Novice, the numbers have "tamed." Boys rarely have enough number for this to become an issue.

I am a scientist so I like to see numbers. Using the Ice Network results information, I created a list of the number of the girls/ladies skating at the Juvenile/Intermediate by Region for the last 4 seasons. I determined the number of skaters per Region based on the number of "Groups" and multiplied by the number of skaters in "Group A." Group sizes can vary within a Regional competition but I used Group A to be consistent throughout.

Here is what I came up with:

Juvenile Level 16-Oct 15-Oct 14-Oct 13-Oct
North Atlantic 102 96 114 102
South Atlantic 138 120 102 102
New England 96 90 80 68
Eastern Section 336 306 296 272
Eastern Great Lakes 52 48 51 51
Southwest 48 56 48 52
Upper Great Lakes 45 64 52 64
Midwestern Section 145 168 151 167
Southwestern Pacific 34 42 48 60
Central Pacific 28 45 32 28
Northwestern Pacific 30 21 23 23
Pacific Coast Section 92 108 103 111

Intermediate Level 16-Oct 15-Oct 14-Oct 13-Oct
North Atlantic 60 75 60 56
South Atlantic 102 90 90 80
New England 72 51 48 45
Eastern Section 234 216 198 181
Eastern Great Lakes 60 64 45 45
Southwest 42 45 45 56
Upper Great Lakes 70 64 68 56
Midwestern Section 172 173 158 157
Southwestern Pacific 51 51 45 64
Central Pacific 24 42 15 34
Northwestern Pacific 22 26 26 32
Pacific Coast Section 97 119 86 130

At the Juvenile level, I surprised to learn that the number of skaters in the South Atlantic Region alone is greater the number of skater in all 3 of the Pacific regions combined for both this past year and the year before. That was also true at the Intermediate level this past year.

I knew it was lopsided but I never realized how lopsided it was! fyi - for this past competition season, the number of Juvenile girls competing at each of the Eastern regions separately (102, 138, 96) was larger than the combined participation from all 3 of the Pacific Regions combined (34+28+30 = 92).

The numbers are off kilter and need to be adjust so that the system is equitable to all regardless of where the skater is from. At least to me, that is the best way for USFS to create a strong pipeline of future skaters that can compete at the international level.

concorde said:

I am a scientist so I like to see numbers. Using the Ice Network results information, I created a list of the number of the girls/ladies skating at the Juvenile/Intermediate by Region for the last 4 seasons. I determined the number of skaters per Region based on the number of "Groups" and multiplied by the number of skaters in "Group A." Group sizes can vary within a Regional competition but I used Group A to be consistent throughout.

Here is what I came up with:

Juvenile Level 16-Oct 15-Oct 14-Oct 13-Oct
North Atlantic 102 96 114 102
South Atlantic 138 120 102 102
New England 96 90 80 68
Eastern Section 336 306 296 272
Eastern Great Lakes 52 48 51 51
Southwest 48 56 48 52
Upper Great Lakes 45 64 52 64
Midwestern Section 145 168 151 167
Southwestern Pacific 34 42 48 60
Central Pacific 28 45 32 28
Northwestern Pacific 30 21 23 23
Pacific Coast Section 92 108 103 111

Intermediate Level 16-Oct 15-Oct 14-Oct 13-Oct
North Atlantic 60 75 60 56
South Atlantic 102 90 90 80
New England 72 51 48 45
Eastern Section 234 216 198 181
Eastern Great Lakes 60 64 45 45
Southwest 42 45 45 56
Upper Great Lakes 70 64 68 56
Midwestern Section 172 173 158 157
Southwestern Pacific 51 51 45 64
Central Pacific 24 42 15 34
Northwestern Pacific 22 26 26 32
Pacific Coast Section 97 119 86 130

At the Juvenile level, I surprised to learn that the number of skaters in the South Atlantic Region alone is greater the number of skater in all 3 of the Pacific regions combined for both this past year and the year before. That was also true at the Intermediate level this past year.

I knew it was lopsided but I never realized how lopsided it was! fyi - for this past competition season, the number of Juvenile girls competing at each of the Eastern regions separately (102, 138, 96) was larger than the combined participation from all 3 of the Pacific Regions combined (34+28+30 = 92).

The numbers are off kilter and need to be adjust so that the system is equitable to all regardless of where the skater is from. At least to me, that is the best way for USFS to create a strong pipeline of future skaters that can compete at the international level.

Click to expand...

On a less scientific basis, a coach in the know happened to remark on this by chance recently in my hearing. In a casual discussion the US Eastern Section [where some Canadians compete to get experience], the coach noted that it was so competitive that there were some skaters with incredibly advanced jumps at the novice level that never got the opportunity to compete beyond regionals.

loopy said:

I think it was 185 for juve and up including an admin fee plus online fee, practice ice is not included, there is a 10 admission fee daily. And you have to drive, stay at a hotel etc... I guess I wouldn't judge based on how many skaters you see at regionals to determine the skating health of a region. For for juv, almost 80 girls participated in the club comp mixer events in one region.

Click to expand...

Once you get to juvenile and beyond, I think you can judge based on how many come to regionals. It's the only pipeline. At some point, it has to be about regionals. Maybe not at juvenile, but at some point you have to go to one to get anywhere in the qualifying pipeline. If you're not going to regionals, you can't even really be considered in the health-o-sport meter.

Regionals are expensive, but as expensive as regionals are, sectionals and nationals are more expensive. If you can't afford to take a skater to regionals, then they are pretty much done before they start. How will you fund a trip to sectionals and nationals if you can't fund a trip to regionals? I don't mean to sound crass, just realistic. This is an expensive sport!

I think an equitable system based on points earned is a start. I'd also like to see another pipeline (or even multiple pipelines). I think USFS shoots themselves in the foot a bit with this single pipeline system.

For someone who is 13 with a good shot of advancing to sectionals, their entire skating career can be over just based on waking up sick the day of regionals. Not all areas have the ice time or skating community available to produce skaters with consistent triples. This sport is pretty isolating before juvenile level -- as a parent, it's impossible to tell what kind of shot your child might have in the qualifying levels until you've spent 5+ years training to get there.

I just wish USFS would put some energy into early talent identification and supporting kids in those levels 3 that come before juvenile (but that's a whole different post).

TGee said:

Dropping in with a thought. Skate Ontario, which is huge and until the upcoming amalgamation has had 4 sections, began a summer super series with a final a few years back. To participate, skaters have to travel and do competitions in more than one section. This year Skate Canada has done something similar with the national summer series which is scored on the best two summer events, but only one event is designated per section, so it deliberately encourages mixing.

One of the main rationales is to promote real strength on strength competition for the stronger skaters at each level, but it also goes a long way in terms of evening out the judging norms, and helping Skate Canada to get realistic assessment of merit of skaters in smaller, less competitive sections.

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This makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure how many states have a series, but the 2 states in our area have basic skills series where points are accumulated from a set list of competitions (like a grand prix for basic skills). A pre-pre through senior series where you can complete based on points earned (possibly from your top 3 scores?) would be a great secondary pipeline to sectionals for juv through senior and amazing experience with IJS for pre-pre through pre-juv.

^^ Solo dance uses such a series to qualify for Nationals.

AndreaRu said:

This makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure how many states have a series, but the 2 states in our area have basic skills series where points are accumulated from a set list of competitions (like a grand prix for basic skills). A pre-pre through senior series where you can complete based on points earned (possibly from your top 3 scores?) would be a great secondary pipeline to sectionals for juv through senior and amazing experience with IJS for pre-pre through pre-juv.

Click to expand...

The cool thing about the system is that if one part of the country has a lot of skaters who get byes to the national qualifier, then that area's [we say section they aren't exactly the same] total number of slots at the national level qualifier increase.... They still get the same number from the standard pipeline.

The thing that I like about this is that it doesn't assume that the relative strengths of different sections is static. If Quebec is stronger in pairs this year, it will end up with more teams at nationals, but if it is Western Ontario next year and WO teams get the bye, then WO will get more slots the next year. It means that the system has a built in stabilizer for changes in relative strength across the different sections.

AndreaRu said:

Once you get to juvenile and beyond, I think you can judge based on how many come to regionals. It's the only pipeline. At some point, it has to be about regionals. Maybe not at juvenile, but at some point you have to go to one to get anywhere in the qualifying pipeline. If you're not going to regionals, you can't even really be considered in the health-o-sport meter.

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Assuming "health-o-sport" refers only to standard-track singles, pairs, and dance competition leading to Nationals and ultimately representing the US at ISU events.

I do think that skating in the US is better off now than 40 years ago when I was a kid skater, when that track (with figures) was basically the only option available to young skaters, and social ice dance basically the only option available to adults.

Now that there are other opportunities* to participate for skaters who are never going to get to standard-track regionals, let alone beyond, there are more reasons for skaters to stay in the sport, which makes the local clubs healthier and also provides more sources of volunteers and present or future officials.

*Allowing teens over 13 to participate in Open Juvenile and lower-level freestyle events. The reason I quit was because in the 1970s 14-year-olds weren't welcome in Preliminary events.

Also adult competitions, synchro competition, Showcase, Theatre on Ice, Solo Dance, Basic Skills

I think an equitable system based on points earned is a start. I'd also like to see another pipeline (or even multiple pipelines). I think USFS shoots themselves in the foot a bit with this single pipeline system.

For someone who is 13 with a good shot of advancing to sectionals, their entire skating career can be over just based on waking up sick the day of regionals.

Click to expand...

True. Having some kind of series rather than being eliminated from consideration after a single event would be useful for skaters aiming for the top in crowded fields. As I once described it, a sieve as opposed to a funnel.

Not all areas have the ice time or skating community available to produce skaters with consistent triples. This sport is pretty isolating before juvenile level -- as a parent, it's impossible to tell what kind of shot your child might have in the qualifying levels until you've spent 5+ years training to get there.

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And yet you will need to travel somewhere, maybe more than once each year, to get the opportunity to advance, once you get to qualifying levels. There really isn't any way around that.

For skaters in more isolated training locations, traveling to club competitions and/or regionals is the only way to see what the standards really are outside your home area. IceNetwork or other online resources give more information than was available decades ago, but for quality of basic skating you really have to see it in person -- video and verbal descriptions can only go so far.

I just wish USFS would put some energy into early talent identification and supporting kids in those levels 3 that come before juvenile (but that's a whole different post).

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Identification and supporting how? It's not as though they can give money thousands of kids.

For singles, and pairs, talent at younger ages isn't a sufficient predictor of who will be successful at higher levels. So much depends on post-puberty body type, which can't always be predicted.

Finding ways to make serious training rewarding now for motivated kids (and parents) through lower levels, regardless of whether those kids will turn out to have the potential to learn and keep triples, or find pair/dance partners, would be useful. What would help?

gkelly said:

And yet you will need to travel somewhere, maybe more than once each year, to get the opportunity to advance, once you get to qualifying levels. There really isn't any way around that.

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I can only speak for us, but we are more than happy to travel for competitions, choreography, special opportunities, etc. However, we are not able to travel to train on a daily basis. That would require homeschooling, living separately from the rest of the family, etc. It's not a choice most people could make until they know whether their child has a future in the sport, which is something you can't really find out until you do those things. It's just a bit of a catch 22.

Identification and supporting how? It's not as though they can give money thousands of kids.

For singles, and pairs, talent at younger ages isn't a sufficient predictor of who will be successful at higher levels. So much depends on post-puberty body type, which can't always be predicted.

Finding ways to make serious training rewarding now for motivated kids (and parents) through lower levels, regardless of whether those kids will turn out to have the potential to learn and keep triples, or find pair/dance partners, would be useful. What would help?

Click to expand...

First and foremost, IJS judging is needed for the 3 test levels that are currently afterthoughts. These are the serious developmental levels for juvenile and it's clear that USFS has zero interest in those levels. They just roll the dice and assume the clubs are taking care of it. The entire world changes when you hit juvenile and unless you have a very experienced coach who takes a lot of kids to regionals at that level, you basically have no chance. Without any feedback on specific elements, that first juvenile year might be a complete loss. For some, that's all they will get.

Also, I would love to have more opportunities from USFS for workshops, seminars, etc. The STARS Off Ice Testing program was a start and something that tells me they are thinking about this, but they continue to only offer pretty much everything else they do for juvenile and above. I suppose it's easier for gymnastics to work with this because they don't expect their athletes to stay in the sport much past puberty, but their TOPS testing is a good example of something that would be amazing for figure skating.

Talent identification and talent selection are different things. Current ability isn't a good predictor, but there are ways to assess a skater and know their potential. Many will tell you that talent identification is an art, not a science. Coaches hesitate to really give assessments because 1) it's their bread and butter -- why push away a kid who wants to skate? and 2) so.much.drama. A coach that isn't your child's coach certainly can't say anything lest they be accused of poaching and for sure they wouldn't say, "you're not a good candidate for the well balanced program." As a parent, you're left wondering if it's all worth it.

USFS puts a lot of pressure on local clubs and coaches to create their entire qualifying program -- before juvenile, it's pretty much silence. Last year for the Skate America program, they brought the kids out on the ice and referred to everyone under juvenile as "basic skills" and "learn to skate" members. I would just like them to take an interest on the local level a bit more. Small clubs can't afford to fly world level coaches out to have seminars but the clubs that can very rarely invite other clubs to participate. If USFS could work on the local level a bit more, encouraging those kids who are willing to put in the work and who also have potential, I think it would go a long way. Much farther than sending a box of pencils and hand sanitizer to a rink for a once-a-year promo day.

I was really shocked to realize that 6.0 judging still exists in the US. Ordinals just don't make sense to me at the lower levels, where it's so important for kids and their families to know where they stand in terms of absolute achievement.

In Canada, we've been moving to an IJS aligned, but not IJS for levels below pre-Juvenile. [Competitive levels start at pre-Juvenile, which required that the former Junior Bronze test was passed. This is now the STAR 5 test as of this year.] And we've been moving towards only providing absolute scoring and no ranking at the lowest [US no test] levels.

What I really like about the system is that it really gives the kids an absolute sense of how well they are doing in relation to a clearly articulated national standard... And they don't get ranked in competitions until STAR 4 -- after the equivalent of the old preliminary test.

STARSkate has been the name of the figure skating program in Skate Canada for many years. However, at the end of the last quadrennial a new system of STARSkate began to develop.

Old pre-preliminary C,B,A became STAR 1-3. At these levels, boys and girls compete together in the same flights. Preliminary is now STAR 4 and 5, and that is the point at which the girls and boys split and ranking starts, but overall absolute scoring continues. And as of this year all but the Gold level/test is gone and STAR 5-10 recreational track competitions exist, with tests at STAR 8 and 10.

What does this mean for judging?

Well for the lower levels, elements are judged on an absolute scale of gold, silver, bronze or merit [meaning needs improvement], and a skater gets an overall grade based on the absolute score for the majority of elements.

For example, STAR 1 events are elements only with 3 jumps, 2 spins, spirals and a pass/fail improvised creative expresesion. Skaters the overall score based on their top 4 elements....So, if a child earned 2 gold, 3 silver and 2 bronze the child would receive an absolute overall score of silver for the event, and would get a scoring sheet that lets the child know how she/he did on each element in relation to the standard. For STAR 2 and up where programs begin, merit on any element means that an overall gold cannot be given.
And the standards are clear and publicly available. I hope it's not geo-blocked for you, but here is a link to the publicly posted Vimeo examples for STAR5 freeskate elements...with judging sheets at the end of each one. What this means is that judges, coaches, skaters and parents can see what the expectations and standards are and get a clear sense of how well the skater is doing against them.

https://vimeo.com/skatecanada

STAR 5 Single Axel Gold example https://vimeo.com/179501705

STAR 5 Single Axel Bronze example https://vimeo.com/179501682

These absolute standards are used for testing, although as of this year the freeskate and skills tests will be done in club by qualified coaches at each STAR level. And the standards are getting tougher and more detailed at every STAR level. STAR 1 includes Ina Bauers and backspins.

Only dance is keeping the old preliminary test [Dutch Waltz, Canasta Tango, and Baby Blues] but contemporary music alternatives are now available for the lower level tests.

https://info.skatecanada.ca/hc/en-ca/articles/202951464-Contemporary-Music-for-Pattern-Dances

TGee said:

For example, STAR 1 events are elements only with 3 jumps, 2 spins, spirals and a pass/fail improvised creative expresesion. Skaters the overall score based on their top 4 elements....So, if a child earned 2 gold, 3 silver and 2 bronze the child would receive an absolute overall score of silver for the event, and would get a scoring sheet that lets the child know how she/he did on each element in relation to the standard. For STAR 2 and up where programs begin, merit on any element means that an overall gold cannot be given.
And the standards are clear and publicly available. I hope it's not geo-blocked for you, but here is a link to the publicly posted Vimeo examples for STAR5 freeskate elements...with judging sheets at the end of each one. What this means is that judges, coaches, skaters and parents can see what the expectations and standards are and get a clear sense of how well the skater is doing against them.

https://vimeo.com/skatecanada

STAR 5 Single Axel Gold example https://vimeo.com/179501705

STAR 5 Single Axel Bronze example https://vimeo.com/179501682

Click to expand...

And these are used for competitions? You get feedback like that after a program? Those videos actually make me a little sad. We have no such standards here. It does not seem to matter to judges whether an axel has a cheated take-off or an extra turnout on the landing. I am sure they see those issues, but they don't let technical mistakes like cheated axels, clear wrong lutz take-off edges, or too few rotations in spins determine placement. They appear to look at the program as a whole, which tends to have a lot to do with the choreography and not really as much to do with the actual elements.

Even when they look at the elements (for example, in a compulsory program), you can see that certain judges look only at the height of an element or how flexible the skater is or how fast they skated. There are no clear standards to tell a skater what to focus on and if you change your focus based on what you think the ordinals told you in the last competition, you may find that the focus of the judges in your next competition is completely different. This is easy to see after competing compulsories over an entire season and placing all over the place even when competing against the same skaters over and over.

To have that kind of feedback would be amazing. When you can clearly tell what was wrong and you understand why the judges gave the ordinals they did, it's easier to take. It's just terrible when no reasonable person can figure out what happened. Sometimes it feels like the judges just give up, especially in large groups. Some of the ordinal groups just make no sense at all!

AndreaRu said:

And these are used for competitions? You get feedback like that after a program? Those videos actually make me a little sad. We have no such standards here. It does not seem to matter to judges whether an axel has a cheated take-off or an extra turnout on the landing. I am sure they see those issues, but they don't let technical mistakes like cheated axels, clear wrong lutz take-off edges, or too few rotations in spins determine placement. They appear to look at the program as a whole, which tends to have a lot to do with the choreography and not really as much to do with the actual elements.

Even when they look at the elements (for example, in a compulsory program), you can see that certain judges look only at the height of an element or how flexible the skater is or how fast they skated. There are no clear standards to tell a skater what to focus on and if you change your focus based on what you think the ordinals told you in the last competition, you may find that the focus of the judges in your next competition is completely different. This is easy to see after competing compulsories over an entire season and placing all over the place even when competing against the same skaters over and over.

To have that kind of feedback would be amazing. When you can clearly tell what was wrong and you understand why the judges gave the ordinals they did, it's easier to take. It's just terrible when no reasonable person can figure out what happened. Sometimes it feels like the judges just give up, especially in large groups. Some of the ordinal groups just make no sense at all!

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Yes, these are the new score sheets. And even for the last few years the kids at least got an absolute evaluation of every element. I'm not sure whether the score sheet for each element will be available to the coaches, but this standard isn't just for tests.

I've announced at STAR 3-5 events and every element is called and evaluated. Each element is called and evaluated, including skating skills. I have heard and seen the judges checking whether jumps and spins were done properly for every skater. There is a well balanced program assessment and scoring.

And just to be clear ranking, when it starts, is based on absolute scoring. Ordinals of the 6.0 type do not exist whatsoever.

To be fair, my sense is that folks have been fairly aware that Skate Canada has been rolling out a fairly radical change from the bottom up. Much of the radical change seems to be grounded in the science. Both about physical and psychological development in athletes. Skate Canada has needed to follow Sport Canada's shift to long term athlete development models, likely as a condition of it's funding.

I suspect USFSA is looking at what's happening and waiting to see if it works, but does not face the same federal system pressure that sports federations in the UK, CAN, and AUS do to revise and change there programs to respond to the science.

I'll note that the new CanSkate, basic skating program, which rolled out just in this quadrennial, is really very radical also. And it seems not only to work well, progress kids faster and to a higher standard, it's keeping both boys and girls engaged and attracting them into figure skating from what many of us can tell. Here's the CanSkate report card...

http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00054666.htm

CanSkaters are awarded ribbons for each of agility, balance and control at each of the 6 stages, and a stage badge when all 3 ribbons for a stage are achieved. This is really helpful for kids that progress asymmetrically. This is often the case for boys. Often there are some kids who lag in the control skills, especially since they have to do them in both directions. But the clubs can allow them to progress and start STARSkate freeskate elements and the dances even while still working on backwards skating and stops for CanSkate.

NB They aren't allowed out of helmets under Skate Canada's liability policy until they have the full stage 5 badge. And if that means that they are doing competitions and tests in helmets, it's okay. The regulations state that they cannot be penalized for wearing a helmet.

I pulled the USFS information on the Solo Ice Dance Series to see how it works. Here is a link to the handbook
http://www.usfsa.org/content/2016 Solo Series Complete Handbook.pdf

Turns out this is the only way that Solo ice dancers can qualify for sectionals. Also, Easterns has its own Sectionals, but Midwest and Pacific Sectionals is combined. Very interesting ...

Before the season starts, USFS designates certain competitions as being in the qualifying series. Skaters have the option of skating in as many of these competitions as they want but to be eligible to reach Sectionals, they have to skate in at least 2 competitions in the series. Points are based on how an individual places AND the number of skaters that competed at the completion at each level. I think to get the full points for 1st place finish (9), there has be to at last 4 skaters competing at the level at the competition. Only the highest points from 3 competitions are counted in the final points tally. Also, a skater can compete out of "Section" as many times as they want but only points from one out-of-Section competition can count in the final points tally.

So USFS had already put in a lot of thought about creating a qualifying track based on a series approach.

concorde said:

I pulled the USFS information on the Solo Ice Dance Series to see how it works. Here is a link to the handbook
http://www.usfsa.org/content/2016 Solo Series Complete Handbook.pdf

Turns out this is the only way that Solo ice dancers can qualify for sectionals. Also, Easterns has its own Sectionals, but Midwest and Pacific Sectionals is combined. Very interesting ...

Before the season starts, USFS designates certain competitions as being in the qualifying series. Skaters have the option of skating in as many of these competitions as they want but to be eligible to reach Sectionals, they have to skate in at least 2 competitions in the series. Points are based on how an individual places AND the number of skaters that competed at the completion at each level. I think to get the full points for 1st place finish (9), there has be to at last 4 skaters competing at the level at the competition. Only the highest points from 3 competitions are counted in the final points tally. Also, a skater can compete out of "Section" as many times as they want but only points from one out-of-Section competition can count in the final points tally.

So USFS had already put in a lot of thought about creating a qualifying track based on a series approach.

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Thanks for sharing your research concorde. :agree:

So, it sounds like there is a precedent in the USFSA for a series, but unfortunately it's for a track that doesn't
feed into elite international competition.....

I understand your concern, but you have to understand age is not a factor. Don't be so sensitive about that. The judges also have a tough decision, and they are trained in this art. Just don't let your girl give up.