State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17

ice coverage · Oct 3, 2016

skatelikewind1966 said:
.... Every year prior to Regionals, the USFSA selects an individual (and social media platforms) to make a video like this and it goes out to all Regional competitors. A very nice gesture and a nice way to get every excited.

Thx, the thought had crossed my mind that perhaps USFS asked Ashley to make the video.
Also crossed my mind whether others had made videos in the past, but could not remember any.
Not saying that the previous videos did not happen ... am saying that maybe I saw videos in past years, appreciated the effort, and then promptly forgot them.

But I think Ashley's will stick with me. She has an exceptional knack for coming through the screen very well (not only in this video) and for identifying with/relating to her audience, whoever they may be.
My guess is that USFS did not go so far as to script her message. In any case, Ashley's delivery was heartfelt and sincere, and I applaud her :bow:

.

(This post is not intended to be backhanded criticism of anyone else. For example, Gracie recently recorded a nice video msg for USFS adult skaters.)

Haven't watched the Japan Open videos, but am happy for Ashley

. Hugs to Gracie :ghug:

.

skylark · Oct 3, 2016

Vickys21 said:
I was browsing through the comments in this thread trying to find some compliments for Ashley's amazing showing at JO but I was not able to find mush... I really liked her new lyrical image, and how she presented it, her program, her dress, not too mention the fact that she was able to maintain her great technical form through the summer and carry it over into the next season. Why is there always so much hype about Gracie, and there is so little appreciation for Ashley?

A question for the ages. :laugh:

1. A lot of Mirai fans still resent Ashley for being chosen to compete in Sochi. Never mind that the decision was made (a) Ashley had placed 5th at the previous Worlds and thus (with Gracie, who placed 6th) earned 3 spots for U.S. ladies to go to Sochi at all and (b) Ashley had won gold at TEB and silver at SA that fall of 2013; and she'd brought home 3 GP Final medals in 3 years: one silver and two bronze. Meanwhile, Mirai had placed 3rd and 8th at her two Grand Prix events in 2013, had never qualified for a GPF, and hadn't qualified to go to Worlds since 2010.

2. Many GS posters focus more on Ashley's underrotations than her overall skating and results. I don't know why. But I've observed that there are plenty of Ashley "ubers" around here. However, we tend not to go into "fan wars" the way many other fans do. Maybe we just don't like arguing, or maybe we have better uses for our time than trying to change someone else's mind. I've also noticed that Mirai's and Mao's URs don't get nearly the hate around here that Ashley's do, FWIW. I'm not criticizing Mirai, though ... she gave a great answer about why she (and, as implied, others) who competed before the rule changes started penalizing URs so heavily, do find it difficult to maintain their trained techniques at competitions.

3. As far as simple appreciation for Ashley's gorgeous skating and for the fact that she's come through for USA time and again ... I'm completely flummoxed. :eek:

hwell:

skylark · Oct 3, 2016

topaz emerald said:
We just don't have the talent right now for USA ladies figure skating. I haven't seen any american ladies skater back loading their jumps and doing tables or doing choppy rehearsed footwork like the top International skaters right now. Either we are slow to adapting ISU technical changes or lacking in talent or coaching or the whole idea that skating in the US is expensive so it takes longer to develop talent.....

I've been thinking for awhile that (some? or many?) US skaters, coaches and their choreographers may not prefer to take such measures for the sake of winning. They seem to think more in terms of creating programs that are balanced not backloaded, and in general just may not want to sacrifice other values for the points. As Kori Ade said in discussing the international ladies field recently, it's hard, when all the jumps are in the second half of the SP, for it to be anything but step, step, jump; step, step, step, jump.

As Kori also said, in answer to the Russian ladies' habit of so many tanos in a program ... that's not the only way to earn GoE points for jumps. Plus the repetition makes one wonder whether they can still do a good jump with traditional arms, and thus whether the tano is actually harder, for them.

I really dislike so many tanos. The repetition takes away from the ability to use that variation as part of the musical interpretation. See Adam Rippon's Worlds FS for how a tano can be part of the whole and even pre-echoed in the program, to sublime effect.

I've entertained some of these thoughts for a while, but it was nice to hear them confirmed by someone actually working in the field and facing the issue of how to compete internationally.

R.D. · Oct 3, 2016

skylark said:
1. A lot of Mirai fans still resent Ashley for being chosen to compete in Sochi. Never mind that the decision was made (a) Ashley had placed 5th at the previous Worlds and thus (with Gracie, who placed 6th) earned 3 spots for U.S. ladies to go to Sochi at all and (b) Ashley had won gold at TEB and silver at SA that fall of 2013; and she'd brought home 3 GP Final medals in 3 years: one silver and two bronze. Meanwhile, Mirai had placed 3rd and 8th at her two Grand Prix events in 2013, had never qualified for a GPF, and hadn't qualified to go to Worlds since 2010.

For me, the sticking point was not about whether Wagner deserved to go or not, which I saw as a separate issue; It's how USFS handled the whole ordeal and specifically, their failure to disclose a MAJOR conflict of interest (both shared the same sponsor!!) in the decision.

3. As far as simple appreciation for Ashley's gorgeous skating and for the fact that she's come through for USA time and again ... I'm completely flummoxed.hwell:

that said, the ONE time a lot of people seemed to give her a chance (2015 Worlds), which was after her brilliant Nationals, she came up short :eek:

hwell:

But - she did deliver in Boston, which was huge - especially after Gold slipped up.

I think Wagner fans on the forums underestimate her true reach. There ARE people out there that appreciate her and the crowds make that very clear after her performances...

skylark · Oct 3, 2016

R.D. said:
For me, the sticking point was not about whether Wagner deserved to go or not, which I saw as a separate issue; It's how USFS handled the whole ordeal and specifically, their failure to disclose a MAJOR conflict of interest (both shared the same sponsor!!) in the decision.

Oh, that's interesting. I didn't frequent GS at the time and hadn't heard about that. Still, I find that so many people here blame Ashley for Mirai not going.

that said, the ONE time a lot of people seemed to give her a chance (2015 Worlds), which was after her brilliant Nationals, she came up short hwell:

But - she did deliver in Boston, which was huge - especially after Gold slipped up.

I think Wagner fans on the forums underestimate her true reach. There ARE people out there that appreciate her and the crowds make that very clear after her performances...

That was part of my post. Possibly I didn't make it clear. thanks for your comments. Ashley's interview with TSL in autumn 2015 was very interesting as to what she identified was part of her problem at worlds 2015 (which had happened to her before) ... when everyone had high hopes for her. Very interesting as to how she addressed every aspect of what she identified as what she needed to do to change her behavior.

I still find people's inability to forgive her for her SP at WC 2015 rather stern, in light of multiple chances given many other skaters.

drivingmissdaisy · Oct 3, 2016

andromache said:
Am I the only one who doesn't hate Gracie's LP? I don't love it, but it has the potential to be gorgeous. I'm in love with the music. Though perhaps I'd rather see someone softer like Evgenia skate to it, rather than Gracie.

(I desperately want Evgenia to skate to something moving and classical and epic. The music she skates to now is nice, but she has the talent to skate to music much bigger.)

I also like what Gracie is trying to do with the program. Even though she isn't a lyrical skater, I do like the attempt to soften her choreography so she takes more time to hold out and extend moves.

KwanIsALegend · Oct 3, 2016

I hope Gracie finds that fire and love for the sport, even though I find her skating lacking emotion and connection with the audience I would love to see her skate clean. It is heartbreaking to watch her fall ( and those falls at Japan Open were hard, awkward falls). As most of you know, these skaters don't just decide in a week to become elite figure skaters, they work their entire lives and that is what kills me when I see them have nerve demons holding them back. What also must have been very hard for Gracie was the fact that she had such a poor performance in front of all her peers, in a team event. Not fun.

I can't imagine it is fun facing Frank after having such a rocky performance.

Also, I think she gets lost in that white dress. She kind of blends in with the ice.

moriel · Oct 3, 2016

KwanIsALegend said:
I hope Gracie finds that fire and love for the sport, even though I find her skating lacking emotion and connection with the audience I would love to see her skate clean. It is heartbreaking to watch her fall ( and those falls at Japan Open were hard, awkward falls). As most of you know, these skaters don't just decide in a week to become elite figure skaters, they work their entire lives and that is what kills me when I see them have nerve demons holding them back. What also must have been very hard for Gracie was the fact that she had such a poor performance in front of all her peers, in a team event. Not fun.

I can't imagine it is fun facing Frank after having such a rocky performance.

Also, I think she gets lost in that white dress. She kind of blends in with the ice.

I agree about the dress, hope she changes it, that color really blends in =/

Also, I wonder if she is ok... The jumps she lands usually loop pretty solid, but now even the ones she landed looked like she was going to fall =(

mrrice · Oct 3, 2016

If I were Frank, I'd give Gracie one more event to see if this long program is going to work. If not, I'd suggest she find those feathers and go back to Firebird. Seriously, it worked for Ashley, and Maria B. and it might give her a chance to redeem her last performance at Worlds which was disappointing to say the least. Now that I think of it. Didn't Johnny Weir go back to Otonal for the 2006 Olympics? Remember his original LP from the Olympic Season. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytbTMJN24QQ

skate29 · Oct 3, 2016

I really like Ashley's free skate. I appreciate that she's challenging herself a little with the more lyrical music, but still projecting and in character. I kind of hope that she'll rely less heavily on her overacting and whatnot and more on edge quality and skating skills to get that PCS.
That being said, her short is SO EXTRA for me but if that's what works for her, then I guess go for it??
And Gracie...I think she is really struggling to figure out why she is still skating and her team is doing absolutely nothing for her. None of her programs (even Firebird, imo) with Frank and Lori have really showcased her and put her in a comfortable enough position to emote and feel something in the music. She needs to do some evaluating asap.

Layback11 · Oct 3, 2016

mrrice said:
If I were Frank, I'd give Gracie one more event to see if this long program is going to work. If not, I'd suggest she find those feathers and go back to Firebird. Seriously, it worked for Ashley, and Maria B. and it might give her a chance to redeem her last performance at Worlds which was disappointing to say the least.

She repeated her 2013-14 SP and reportedly said it was a bad decision (I don't remember the source), so that would probably not be a good idea. But I like her FS, and the reception has been mixed but with some positive reactions, so I don't know why she would. It hasn't gotten overwhelming praise, but it wasn't immediately poorly-received like POTO was. I think she should stick with it.

topaz emerald · Oct 3, 2016

andromache said:
Am I the only one who doesn't hate Gracie's LP? I don't love it, but it has the potential to be gorgeous. I'm in love with the music. Though perhaps I'd rather see someone softer like Evgenia skate to it, rather than Gracie.

(I desperately want Evgenia to skate to something moving and classical and epic. The music she skates to now is nice, but she has the talent to skate to music much bigger.)

no, you are not...I just watched her Japan Open LP performance. Too bad about the mistakes, but for the first time since she debut as a Senior, I am glad to say that I LOVED her music, her performance, and her overall look......I made a comment that she always kind of looks pasty, but not today, she had a very beautiful ghostly appearance, and I never liked her past hairdo, but the lowered bun on her gives her such a classic look and I think she should keep it this way more often.....I think her dress is a GORGEOUS WHITE and so pretty on her....I can tell she has worked on her upper body movement softening her lines.....I love her choreography and music.....I've been waiting a long time for her to perform to something like this. The position of her ending camel spin is gorgeous. One critique I have is for her to give more emotion to her face, and if she can add this one element to her performance, it would be so great. I am rooting for Gracie to win every senior competition now, lol. I think this is the most compliments I have ever made about Gracie, lol

)

topaz emerald · Oct 4, 2016

I just saw AShley's LP at Japan Open and if I compare it to Gracie's lp, Gracie's program trumps hers by a lot. I liked her music but didn't think Ashley's choreography is inspiring or that she performed that well to it....therefore, for me, it was a boring program for Ashley. I guess I am going with Gracie this year, lol

topaz emerald · Oct 4, 2016

drivingmissdaisy said:
I also like what Gracie is trying to do with the program. Even though she isn't a lyrical skater, I do like the attempt to soften her choreography so she takes more time to hold out and extend moves.

I think she's improved her upper body movement with this program. And despite what people have said about her short program looking similar to previous tango program, I watched it over again enjoyed it much more this time....I actually like the music and hopes she gets a really sexy black or red dress to go with it, and keep her bun low

withwings · Oct 4, 2016

skate29 said:
And Gracie...I think she is really struggling to figure out why she is still skating and her team is doing absolutely nothing for her. None of her programs (even Firebird, imo) with Frank and Lori have really showcased her and put her in a comfortable enough position to emote and feel something in the music.

The ability to perform has to come from the inside and no one can help there, no one. One has to forget about oneself and to skate for the audience. Gracie has plenty of other gifts, but this gift is not given to her.

withwings · Oct 4, 2016

Vickys21 said:
I was browsing through the comments in this thread trying to find some compliments for Ashley's amazing showing at JO but I was not able to find much... I really liked her new lyrical image, and how she presented it, her program, her dress, not too mention the fact that she was able to maintain her great technical form through the summer and carry it over into the next season. Why is there always so much hype about Gracie, and there is so little appreciation for Ashley?

There are people who watch skating out of pure love of this sport/art and there are people who watch it for some other reason.

temadd · Oct 4, 2016

skylark said:
A question for the ages.

1. A lot of Mirai fans still resent Ashley for being chosen to compete in Sochi. Never mind that the decision was made (a) Ashley had placed 5th at the previous Worlds and thus (with Gracie, who placed 6th) earned 3 spots for U.S. ladies to go to Sochi at all and (b) Ashley had won gold at TEB and silver at SA that fall of 2013; and she'd brought home 3 GP Final medals in 3 years: one silver and two bronze. Meanwhile, Mirai had placed 3rd and 8th at her two Grand Prix events in 2013, had never qualified for a GPF, and hadn't qualified to go to Worlds since 2010.

2. Many GS posters focus more on Ashley's underrotations than her overall skating and results. I don't know why. But I've observed that there are plenty of Ashley "ubers" around here. However, we tend not to go into "fan wars" the way many other fans do. Maybe we just don't like arguing, or maybe we have better uses for our time than trying to change someone else's mind. I've also noticed that Mirai's and Mao's URs don't get nearly the hate around here that Ashley's do, FWIW. I'm not criticizing Mirai, though ... she gave a great answer about why she (and, as implied, others) who competed before the rule changes started penalizing URs so heavily, do find it difficult to maintain their trained techniques at competitions.

3. As far as simple appreciation for Ashley's gorgeous skating and for the fact that she's come through for USA time and again ... I'm completely flummoxed.hwell:

Thank you skylark. I enjoy your posts. They always make me feel good about being an uber Ashley fan.

Sugarpova · Oct 4, 2016

Layback11 said:
So.

Vivian melted down at Regionals and Gracie melted down at JO. In the same weekend.

I think I'm a curse. :hopelessness:

Okay, maybe not really. But I'm sad for them. And I have a lot of fan superstitions. Not a good combination.

Example: I will sometimes try to "reverse-jinx" a skater by placing them lower than I think they will actually place in my predictions. It never works, but I do it anyway. A good example of the kind of fan I am: I try to control the outcomes of things that I am not in control of by doing things like that. It sounds dumb and probably makes me seem slightly unstable , but watching skating makes me a nervous wreck, and I will figuratively implode if I don't do something "proactive" so I feel like I've "done my part" in helping the skaters skate well. It's nonsensical, I know. But it can't hurt to try

ha as Gracie hater I tried to put her 1st in some predictons :laugh:

sometimes it works :yay:

NAOTMAA if I could give more thumbs up I would! agree with every word! If she wasnt so held up all the time people would be rooting for Gracie much more.

Loved loved loved Ashley's prog at JO! I really wasnt overjoyed with her chosing Muse but! like many things she made it work! :yahoo:

Also ofc congrats to Mirai! Now I really hope she can keep this momentum through the whole season!

skylark · Oct 4, 2016

temadd said:
Thank you skylark. I enjoy your posts. They always make me feel good about being an uber Ashley fan.

:yes2::hap57:

Barb · Oct 4, 2016

StitchMonkey said:
Probably that she needed to address her mental health - she made some comments about being depressed, I don't know if she meant clinical, but I also don't think you need a formal diagnosis to justify taking some time for yourself. Mental health is a valid issue just like physical. There could be many times when some time off is the right thing from a mental health standpoint. Not sure if it worked for Gracie, but it may not have been the worst idea/suggestion.

I do agree she needs to find her passion and enjoyment of the sport, and if she can't find it, she needs to start asking if she would be happier doing something else. I am not ready to say quit... but if she thinks she would be happier and more fulfilled going to college, I think she should give some consideration to pursuing her own happiness.

Maybe is because her sister is retiring this season, she is her twin and best friend.

State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17

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