2016-17 State of Russian Ice Dance | Golden Skate

2016-17 State of Russian Ice Dance

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Tiffany Zahorski is now russian and could be the best woman in Russian ice dance after illinykh and based on results Bobrova. The problem is Guerrero and if he is good enough. Sinitsina and Stepnova are not world level. Katsalapov is never going to be someone who wins GPs, GPF medal, russian title, euro medal, world medal. He has one good competition a season. Everyone in Russian ice dance establishment is obsessed with reuniting illinykh and katsalapov for peyingcheng. How about zahorski and Bukin?
 

Layback11

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Excited to see how all of the teams fare with the blues SD. Prediction: Stepanova/Bukin will do hip hop. :cool:
 

Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Tiffany Zahorski is now russian and could be the best woman in Russian ice dance after illinykh and based on results Bobrova. The problem is Guerrero and if he is good enough. Sinitsina and Stepnova are not world level. Katsalapov is never going to be someone who wins GPs, GPF medal, russian title, euro medal, world medal. He has one good competition a season. Everyone in Russian ice dance establishment is obsessed with reuniting illinykh and katsalapov for peyingcheng. How about zahorski and Bukin?

Your analisys :drama:

I have another question. If ISU will not compensate Bobrova/Soloviev for missed Worlds with 2 GP events, then it will be 3 Russian teams who can only get 2nd GP event as home pick at Rostelecom: Bobrova/Soloviev, Ilinykh/Zhiganshin and Stepanova/Bukin. Plus we have Zahorski/Guerrero, who have been promised one home spot at Rostelecom cup. Which means that there is 3 couples for 2 remaining spots: Bobrova/Soloviev, Ilinykh/Zhiganshin and Stepanova/Bukin. I'm 100% Bobrova/Soloviev will be given a home spot at Rostelecom as Euros bronze medalists and current National Champions. So either Ilinykh/Zhiganshin or Stepanova/Bukin will probably have only 1 GP events. Who do you think it will be?
 
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Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.
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Mar 26, 2014
Everyone in Russian ice dance establishment is obsessed with reuniting illinykh and katsalapov for peyingcheng.

It's true. But I think it will never happen. Unfortunately.
 

Ice Dance

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Excited to see how all of the teams fare with the blues SD. Prediction: Stepanova/Bukin will do hip hop. :cool:

Will they? I wouldn't bet on it. They won Junior Worlds with a Blues/Swing combination during the junior season in which blues was the pattern dance and swing & hip hop were the options. Won that Junior Worlds over Papadakis & Cizeron. (And deserved the first place SD mark there, IMO). I would watch out for Stepanova & Bukin in the SD.

Stepanova & Bukin's Junior World's winning short dance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp-pBrZFBM4
 
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dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
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Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Zahorski is perhaps too tall/big for Bukin? She is 171 cm, Guerreiro is 187 cm. according to their ISU bios. They make a very imposing picture on the ice, in the style of Domnina & Shabalin.

Stepanova is 3 cm shorter, and Bukin has not always looked super comfortable lifting her, AFAIR.

The worry with a guy as tall as Guerreiro is that all that height is difficult to keep stable in twizzles (cf Poje at 190 cm, Bates at 187 cm)
 
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Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.
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Mar 26, 2014
I don't think the Fed will let Zahorski/Guerreiro split. Honestly, I don't find him very strong technically, he's probably somewhere on the level of Zhiganshin, Bukin and Mozgov (less strong than Katsalapov and Soloviev), so there is no sense to split the couple to team her up with a partner with a similar level of technical skills than her ex-one.:scratch2:
But I think they will look stunning with Mozgov (if poor Anna will not continue to skate of course) :)
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
I think Russia is simply in a rebuilding phase. Great achievements in ice dance have never been achieved over night, unless you have a genius of a coach like Igor S. How else do we explain that in five seasons C/B have medalled at worlds twice? This is Russia's downfall all their greatest talents have left and now they're left to pick up the pieces. It will take time.

Zhulin has done creditable work with B/S, but they had at least 10-12 yrs of experience together so all he really had to do was polish them to a shine. They also have some promising juniors coming up. Hopefully puberty will be kind.
 

Marta25

Medalist
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Betina Popova has posted a pic from the Medvedkovo rink. Does this mean she has officially been partnered with Mozgov?
The funding season ends in April for the Russian skaters, right? Hoprfully, we will find out soon what is going to happen with Y/M, M/K and if I/Z are staying with Shpilband.
 

Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.
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Mar 26, 2014
Betina Popova has posted a pic from the Medvedkovo rink. Does this mean she has officially been partnered with Mozgov?
The funding season ends in April for the Russian skaters, right? Hoprfully, we will find out soon what is going to happen with Y/M, M/K and if I/Z are staying with Shpilband.

There is only a try-out, AFAIK. But my info might be a bit outdated. They try other combinations too. Can't say more.
 

lauravvv

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Jun 19, 2012
Country
Latvia
The worry with a guy as tall as Guerreiro is that all that height is difficult to keep stable in twizzles (cf Poje at 190 cm, Bates at 187 cm)
As for Bates, it's usually Chock who makes the mistakes on twizzles, not him. Otherwise you may be right.
 

TheGrandSophy

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Sorry but I haven't followed Juniors that much, but saw a few bits of the JGPs. Is Popova the really (some consider OTT) dramatic one? What about her current partner?

ETA: Yeah, just looked it up. The Beyoncé FD one! :biggrin:
 
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semosk8tfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 29, 2009
Country
United-States
Will they? I wouldn't bet on it. They won Junior Worlds with a Blues/Swing combination during the junior season in which blues was the pattern dance and swing & hip hop were the options. Won that Junior Worlds over Papadakis & Cizeron. (And deserved the first place SD mark there, IMO). I would watch out for Stepanova & Bukin in the SD.

Stepanova & Bukin's Junior World's winning short dance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp-pBrZFBM4

Thanks for sharing the video, it gives me hope I will survive the SD next fall.
 

uhh

Medalist
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Your analisys :drama:

I have another question. If ISU will not compensate Bobrova/Soloviev for missed Worlds with 2 GP events, then it will be 3 Russian teams who can only get 2nd GP event as home pick at Rostelecom: Bobrova/Soloviev, Ilinykh/Zhiganshin and Stepanova/Bukin. Plus we have Zahorski/Guerrero, who have been promised one home spot at Rostelecom cup. Which means that there is 3 couples for 2 remaining spots: Bobrova/Soloviev, Ilinykh/Zhiganshin and Stepanova/Bukin. I'm 100% Bobrova/Soloviev will be given a home spot at Rostelecom as Euros bronze medalists and current National Champions. So either Ilinykh/Zhiganshin or Stepanova/Bukin will probably have only 1 GP events. Who do you think it will be?

Why have Z/G been guaranteed a CoR spot? They have always been behind S/B and I/Z at Nats, their Santa Claus cup result was nothing special - why potentially waste a spot on them when S/B & I/Z could be competing for GPF if they had 2 places.

Z/G have potential, but that's all so far. After a year and a half together at a very leniently marked senior B they still didn't break 60 in the SD and got a low 90s FD score. That's not world class, and it's still a step behind the current top tier Russian teams. I don't see the "flawless technique" Zhulin talks about - at every competition I've see them do they are slow and not light across the ice. The fed should not be making promises this early to anyone especially with so few "spare" GP spots this year. Leave the host picks open until test skates/early autumn, see how S/B, I/Z and Z/G are all shaping up and make the decision then. Really, I think Z/G would be better served building a reputation at Senior Bs and Challenger events. It also would help their world ranking much more.
 
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Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.
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Mar 26, 2014
Why have Z/G been guaranteed a CoR spot? They have always been behind S/B and I/Z at Nats, their Santa Claus cup result was nothing special - why potentially waste a spot on them when S/B & I/Z could be competing for GPF if they had 2 places.

Z/G have potential, but that's all so far. After a year and a half together at a very leniently marked senior B they still didn't break 60 in the SD and got a low 90s FD score. That's not world class, and it's still a step behind the current top tier Russian teams. The fed should not be making promises this early to anyone especially with so few "spare" GP spots this year. Leave the host picks open until test skates/early autumn, see how S/B, I/Z and Z/G are all shaping up and make the decision then. Really, I think Z/G would be better served building a reputation at Senior Bs and Challenger events. It also would help their world ranking much more.

I never said guaranteed, I said promised. When it was up in the air with Zahorski's release from the France, the Fed officials (Karponosov, if I remember correctly) said that one spot at Rostelecom is booked for Zahorski/Guerreiro as soon as she's free (I will try to find that interview later tomorrow), and Shekhovtseva is also pulling for them. And in the latest interview Zhulin hinted that it's still the deal.
The logical decision for the Fed will be to give spots to Stepanova/Bukin, Bobrova/Soloviev and Ilinykh/Zhiganshin. IF Sinitsina/Katsalapov will not choose to skate at Rostelecom, which is also logical. But knowing how much illogical decisions was made in the past, I can see any scenario. Also, there is a possibility that Bobrova/Soloviev will receive 2 GP spots as a compensation for missed Worlds (I personally don't believe in this, but some people do). So, it's all up in the air. And of course test skates will matter, that's not question. No one will send not well prepared team anywhere.

I personally would prefer to see Bobrova/Soloviev, Ilinykh/Zhiganshin and Zahorski/Guerreiro at CoR, especially cosidering I'm planning to attend it again :)

So question, was Anna's injury really that bad?

Yes, it's possibly a career ending injury as I heard. I think the info will be available very soon.
 
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uhh

Medalist
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
I never said guaranteed, I said promised. When it was up in the air with Zahorski's release from the France, the Fed officials (Karponosov, if I remember correctly) said that one spot at Rostelecom is booked for Zahorski/Guerreiro as soon as she's free (I will try to find that interview later tomorrow). And in the latest interview Zhulin hinted that it's still the deal.
The logical decision for the Fed will be to give spots to Stepanova/Bukin, Bobrova/Soloviev and Ilinykh/Zhiganshin. IF Sinitsina/Katsalapov will not choose to skate at Rostelecom, which is also logical. But knowing how much illogical decisions was made in the past, I can see any scenario. Also, there is a possibility that Bobrova/Soloviev will receive 2 GP spots as a compensation for missed Worlds (I personally don't believe in this, but some people do). So, it's all up in the air. And of course test skates will matter, that's not question. No one will send not well prepared team anywhere..

Thanks for the clarification. :) There are so few "spare" GP spots this year; I think about 40 out of 48 are already taken by skaters who earned 1 or 2 through Worlds finish, SB list and World Standings. So the federation needs to be smart about how it uses its host picks (assuming they can, because it's so tight already, and really the ISU should expand dance back to 10 per event, but that's another debate) As S/K are the only team guaranteed 2 places, if I was in charge, I'd say to them "Sorry, but this year you have to take your GPs elsewhere." It's not like they need S/K above all other Russians to help with ticket sales for anything, or that it's a case overlooking national champions/someone with a storming Worlds finish. S/K were more the "least worst" rather than the best of the Russians by the end of the year!

Then they have the full potential to use the host picks to get more teams out who aren't guaranteed so much. And don't assign any host picks at the initial selection, let B/S, S/B & I/Z get their guaranteed spot elsewhere and then use host picks to get them 2 later if more places don't open up. Otherwise, for example if they assigned B/S to CoR straight away, that's their 1 guaranteed spot, other countries wouldn't pick them off the subs list because it could be too much competition for their couples, and the federation could end up with only S/K having a chance to get to GPF, and would you really want to rely on Nikita as your only hope?

I don't think there is any chance of B/S getting 2 spots as any kind of gesture - ethics & arguments aside, it would take them into the point where they start to have more teams guaranteed for GP spots than they actually have available. The maths only works at the moment assuming that China, Japan & France all give back some of their host picks and that teams like Parsons, A/T and L/D stay in juniors.
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
I never said guaranteed, I said promised. When it was up in the air with Zahorski's release from the France, the Fed officials (Karponosov, if I remember correctly) said that one spot at Rostelecom is booked for Zahorski/Guerreiro as soon as she's free (I will try to find that interview later tomorrow), and Shekhovtseva is also pulling for them. And in the latest interview Zhulin hinted that it's still the deal.
The logical decision for the Fed will be to give spots to Stepanova/Bukin, Bobrova/Soloviev and Ilinykh/Zhiganshin. IF Sinitsina/Katsalapov will not choose to skate at Rostelecom, which is also logical. But knowing how much illogical decisions was made in the past, I can see any scenario. Also, there is a possibility that Bobrova/Soloviev will receive 2 GP spots as a compensation for missed Worlds (I personally don't believe in this, but some people do). So, it's all up in the air. And of course test skates will matter, that's not question. No one will send not well prepared team anywhere.

I personally would prefer to see Bobrova/Soloviev, Ilinykh/Zhiganshin and Zahorski/Guerreiro at CoR, especially cosidering I'm planning to attend it again :)



Yes, it's possibly a career ending injury as I heard. I think the info will be available very soon.

Sad about Anya, I hope they can find a good partner for Sergei. He seems to not like his girls too short, but rather tall and thin :sad21:
 

Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Thanks for the clarification. :) There are so few "spare" GP spots this year; I think about 40 out of 48 are already taken by skaters who earned 1 or 2 through Worlds finish, SB list and World Standings. So the federation needs to be smart about how it uses its host picks (assuming they can, because it's so tight already, and really the ISU should expand dance back to 10 per event, but that's another debate) As S/K are the only team guaranteed 2 places, if I was in charge, I'd say to them "Sorry, but this year you have to take your GPs elsewhere." It's not like they need S/K above all other Russians to help with ticket sales for anything, or that it's a case overlooking national champions/someone with a storming Worlds finish. S/K were more the "least worst" rather than the best of the Russians by the end of the year!

Then they have the full potential to use the host picks to get more teams out who aren't guaranteed so much. And don't assign any host picks at the initial selection, let B/S, S/B & I/Z get their guaranteed spot elsewhere and then use host picks to get them 2 later if more places don't open up. Otherwise, for example if they assigned B/S to CoR straight away, that's their 1 guaranteed spot, other countries wouldn't pick them off the subs list because it could be too much competition for their couples, and the federation could end up with only S/K having a chance to get to GPF, and would you really want to rely on Nikita as your only hope?

I don't think there is any chance of B/S getting 2 spots as any kind of gesture - ethics & arguments aside, it would take them into the point where they start to have more teams guaranteed for GP spots than they actually have available. The maths only works at the moment assuming that China, Japan & France all give back some of their host picks and that teams like Parsons, A/T and L/D stay in juniors.

Well, basically yes to everything. And it's a fact that Loboda/Drozd stay junior. Not sure about the other two.

But anyway, is it up to Fed to forbid Sinitsina/Katsalapov to choose Rostelecom? I'm not very good at this stuff, but as I understood it's up to a couple and their coach to decide what event to take? Nikita said that he wants to skate home, so I can feel some kind of debate about this matter :biggrin:
 
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