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Thread: Will this be the year for Sasha Cohen?

  1. #31
    Resident Kristi Fan purplecat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    The Fakers, oh I mean the Lakers, suck big time, and so do their fans! (Except Michelle, who was shown on TV a couple of times in game 2 -- the only game the Lakers won, BTW -- along with Jack Nicholson cheering on the hometown guys.)
    Hey Mathman! You better make an exception for me too! I am a lifelong Laker fan! Can't say I was too happy with them during the Finals , but that won't change me from being a Laker fan the rest of my life! Of course my favorite Laker teams were in the 80's though with Magic, Kareem, James Worthy and one of my all time faves Michael Cooper and the rest.

    Back on topic: Sasha Cohen...I adore her! Will it be her year? I ain't touching that one...not going to jinx her or anyone! :D

  2. #32
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    Lord, who knows! I just hope she can deliver when it counts. That would mean the most to her and really give her so much more confidence.

  3. #33
    Skating Freak Barbie
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    Someone in this thread compared Sasha to Kerrigan, with the stunning short programs and struggles with long program. Paul Wylie did this often in his career also. And his 'year', his 'event' of his career came from out of nowhere, and exceeded even his own expectations. I am not at all a Sasha fan. But I hope that the year of 2005 will belong to whoever earns it, and if it is her, good for her.

    Sometimes I wonder if making posts like this, making suggestions like this, is akin to the Sports Illustrated cover jinx? I will keep my predictions to myself, just in case!

    Kasey

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogre Mage
    Sasha reminds me of Nancy Kerrigan with her stunning short programs, then tight and error-prone in the free.

    A significant reason she has gotten more attention than Kwan the last two years is because she competed full-bore all season. Kwan opted out of GP series. 2005 will be a different story.

    I think Wagner can help Sasha with her mental game, which is the biggest thing holding her back. I do not think she can help Sasha choreographically.

    While she did have some problems in Dortmund, a silver medal at Worlds is a big step forward. 2004 was the year that officially put her among the international elite.

    I do not think 2005 will be the year of anyone. No one will dominate the season.

    I actually think Sasha is more likely to win 2005 Worlds rather than 2005 Nats. I think the fact that there are many top competitors there actually helps Sasha focus on her own performance. At Nationals it is basically "Michelle v. Sasha" and I think that makes Sasha very nervous. Plus, Worlds is in Russia this year, a country that has been very friendly to Sasha in the past.

    I agree with you here. I do think that Sasha is getting over her Michelle phobia after beating her 3 times last year. Her nerves have improved if you compare 2004 to 2003. She is at least skating clean SP's. Her mistakes were on jumps and not on spins or footwork. Overall this past season had much better LP's than the one before. Consisdering her split with TT and switch to Robin 2 weeks before her performance at Nats was pretty good. Considering the awful December where she basically lost her confidence she got some of it back at Nats. Her Worlds perfomances were much better than last year. Clean QR and SP which was better than falling in SP like she did in 2002 and 2003. The LP was stiff and nervous but she got through it standing up with only one mistake on a jump. Marshalls was a confidence booster in that she is believing that she can skate clean.

    I agree with others in saying that the media and others are harder on Sasha than others who make the same mistakes. I think it is better that she hasn't won too early and slowly moved up the ladder. It gives her something to work towards and the experience of losing makes winning mean so much more. It took Irina years to finally win that World title. Even people who aren't big fans of her were happy to see her win. Phil Michelson winning the Masters after so many years of disappointment at majors made me cry. Phil actually reminds me of Sasha. Great talent who won many tournaments but couldn't win the big ones. Everyone wonder if he'd ever be able to hold it together and win it. He finally did and is more popular now than he ever was. He screwed up at the US Open and nobody cared anymore while before he would have been crucified.

    Will it be Sasha's year? Nobody knows that. Only time will tell.

  5. #35
    Custom Title Ogre Mage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LBC
    Will it be Sasha's year? Nobody knows that. Only time will tell.
    Another factor next year will be that CoP will be used at Worlds, but not U.S. Nationals. Sasha is already a veteran of CoP and should do fine. But Michelle will be trying to adjust to the new system. Since it will not be used at U.S. Nationals she will be sitting pretty there. But at Worlds she must contend with CoP, plus the fact the international judges are generally not as impressed with her as the U.S. panel.

    Shizuka should be a strong contender at Worlds next year, especially with the weight of Tarasova behind her when the championship is in Moscow. But Shizuka will have the white hot pressure of trying to defend a world title. We'll see what happens.

  6. #36
    Creative Compilation Compiler aka 3axel
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    Sasha, maybe

    If Sasha could put together all clean programs in the same competition, she'd be a threat to win, and probably would, no matter who the other skaters were or how well they skated. Her technique and presentation are that good. But she's never done it when it counted. So who knows?

    tripleflutz

  7. #37
    Keeper of Michelle's Nose berthes ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogre Mage
    Sasha reminds me of Nancy Kerrigan with her stunning short programs, then tight and error-prone in the free.
    Please , I could do a bloopers tape with all of Sasha's fumbled SP performances. Just because she messes up the SP 50% of the time and messes up the LP 99% of the time, doesn't mean she's some kind of power SP skater.

  8. #38
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    I agree with BG. It was only this season that Sasha had clean SPs at Nationals and Worlds. In the 2002-2003 season, although Sasha won gold medals at her first two GP events, she had falls and bobbles in the SPs. Only at Cup of Russia did she skate two relatively clean programs, and she lost there to Volchkova. At 2003 Nationals, Sasha messed up in both SP and FS, and at Worlds 2003, she fell in both SP and FS.

    This past season, she had a minor problem with her 3Z2T in the Skate America SP, had clean SPs at Skate Canada and Lalique, but fell on her combo at the GPF. But her SPs were far cleaner this season than last. Maybe this season her major event FSs will start to clean up, too.

  9. #39
    Lovin' the Kween ... Now and Forever
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    I think one of the reasons Sasha gets picked on a bit more than others for her mistakes, is because she hasn't proven yet that she can skate cleanly through an entire competition. She has been given a great deal of praise from the media, even the thought being thrown out there that she could be the greatest ever. With all this praise comes expectations ... which, if not accomplished, result in heavy criticism from the very people who were praising you. It's not easy being at the top ... people love putting you on a pedastal, all the while just waiting for the moment they can knock you off it.

    As far as her skating well at Worlds and Marshalls, my concerns here are that most of the choreographic content had been taken away from the original product. It still remains to be seen if she can put that back in, and add the more difficult jump combos.
    BTW, I have the same concerns for Michelle. The only difference with her though, is that she has a multitude of totally clean performances to fall back on. I do agree with whoever said that they don't believe anyone will dominate this coming season. I think we will see quite a few hits and misses from everyone. This is a BIG season coming up!

  10. #40
    Keeper of Michelle's Nose berthes ghost's Avatar
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    OK, I want names! That's right, people need to start putting their money where thier mouths are. Just who are all these people who are supposidly immune to criticism despite never skating clean? Names please. Sandu? Bobeck? Klimkin? Orser (Mr. Second Place)? Angela? Who?

    Could it actually be *gasp!* that Sasha is just like everyone else?

  11. #41
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    Not too Hard

    Methinks the media is NOT too hard on Sasha. Rewind to DC Worlds where she fell out of a SPIN.

    This is not the kind of mistake that happens to the best of them.

    Linny

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    About orchestras that go EEK, doesn't Sarah H. play the violin? (OK, that was mean. Sorry, Sarah.)Mathman

    MM, string sections of professional orchestras do not EEK. When Robin used that to describe first tier professional orchestras, she was IMO making an oxymornish statement.

    BTW, Sarah plays the violin, no one knows whether she EEKS or not. AFAIK, she is not auditioning for the VPO or Philadelphia SO, so it is irrelevant. On the ice she does not eek in the competitions that counted. She is still the reigining OGM, until Cohen takes Olys in 2006 (according to some Cohen fans pre game trash talk).

    But we all know what are the consequences of trash talk Have you edited your video tapes on how the Pistons ate the Lakers alive? Did you include Shaq's missed free throws?
    Last edited by rtureck; 07-09-2004 at 11:58 AM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by nymkfan51
    I think one of the reasons Sasha gets picked on a bit more than others
    I disagree, Cohen is not picked on more than others. I do not count the responses to Coihen fans pre game trash talk as nitpicking. When some Cohen fans do their pre game trash talk, e.g. "Sasha is the best... Shizuka has no art" or "Sasha is perfect, Miki Ando is just a jumping bean..." Then it is expected to have some post game responses. I have seen plenty of pre game trash talk re: Cohen at GS.

    I bet some Piston fans are making posters out of Shaq's missed free throws, I bet some Piston fans are making special videos of replays of where the Lakers botched in their defense..." Those are not nitpicking. If there were no pre game trash talks there would not be any post game responses.

    When we take into consideration the pre game trash talk and post game responses, IMO Cohen is not nit picked more than others at all.
    Last edited by rtureck; 07-09-2004 at 11:56 AM.

  14. #44
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    PurpleCat, exception granted. But the REAL Laker team was Wilt Chamberlain and Jerry West!

    RTureck, right as usual about the Pistons. There was a quote in the paper today from Pistons' defensive star Ben Wallace. Some kids at a basketball camp asked him what it was like to play against Shaquille Oneal. Ben answered, "Hey, we're the champs. Ask Shaq what it was like to play against me!"

    "OK, I want names!" -- Berthesghost
    Well, I think there are two points. First, skaters such as Sasha, Michelle, Tara and Michael Weiss are not only criticized for their skating, but also seem to attract more than their share of mean-spirited Internet trolls who attack their personal character. I have never read any such attacks on, say, Irina Slutskaya or Evgenny Plushenko, even by people who are not necessarily enthralled by their skating.

    And a lot of skaters (Lucinda Ruh, Rudi Galindo, Philippe Candeloro) are universally loved despite technical weaknesses as competitive skaters.

    But even if we are just talking about the quality of skating, I can go right down the list of American ladies. Jenny Kirk and Yebin Mok are such nice young ladies that almost everybody holds back criticism of their technical inconsistencies. Ann Patrice MacDonough and Beatrisa Liang see nothing but encouragement in skating discussion groups, despite up and down seasons.

    Anyway, I think RTureck has a point. Trash talk ("Ha, ha, Sasha is going to beat Michelle's butt at Skate America") does encourage the other side to strike back. But then again, that's the fun of sports, as long as we don't take ourselves too seriously.

    Mathman

  15. #45
    Custom Title Ogre Mage's Avatar
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    I'm not sure that Sasha has drawn an undue amount of criticism. Rather, I would say she has drawn an enormous amount of attention -- both positive AND negative. There is prolific and well-publicized gushing over her as well as blatant bashing. This is evident on GS, other boards and in the media.

    There are a few reasons why she has drawn such attention.

    1. She has a very flashy, showstopping style of skating, a la Nicole Bobek. She is also a lovely young woman.

    2. Early in her career, she was known for her feisty competitiveness. Some found it refreshing, while others saw it as poor sportsmanship and arrogance. From 2003- her "loudmouth" style has smoothed over, but people still remember the first impression.

    3. She is seen as Michelle's biggest rival, which polarizes her with the rabid pro and anti Kwan camps.

    4. Skating insiders feel that most of Cohen's skating is extraordinary, but her consistency is only average (for an elite skater). If she was consistent on top of everything else she could be one of the greats ... but instead she falls. What gives? With Bobek, also super talented but inconsistent, it was easy to blame her problems on laziness. But you couldn't say that about Sasha. The reason for her problems remains a topic of debate.
    Last edited by Ogre Mage; 07-09-2004 at 06:19 PM.

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