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Thread: Michael Weiss

  1. #76
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Rudy has shown his neice and nephew(? I think there's one of each, right? ) often at different moments of a figure skating show or competition, I don't see what's wrong with it at all.

  2. #77
    GOLDEN DREAMS RealtorGal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladybug
    I remember Jumpin Joe took his son Blade into the Kiss and Cry all the time at Pro competitions. That was in 99 and 2000 I believe. I don't remembe anyone being upset about that, myself included.

    Ladybug
    Good point! Of course not. It's only when Mike does something do his detractors get irritated. It's fodder for criticism. Mike appears to be a loving, caring parent. Actually, to all those who hate him, Mike appears to be a loving, caring person with occasional bursts of hubris. Big deal. Get a life. Let it go.

  3. #78
    Keeper of Michelle's Nose berthes ghost's Avatar
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    Ah, a many faceted subject.

    Re: Kidgate: It always bugs me when adults seem to push their kids in the limelight repeatedly, from Cody Lee Gifford to Melissa Rivers. Yuck. Maybe some people are hypocritical and are ok with Katia, Joe, and Dan shoving their kids in the spotlight, but bugged only by Mike. Me, they all bother me. Since when did the ISU institute "Bring your daugher to work day"? Get a babysitter. What next, cats, dogs and friendly neighbors in the K&C? Soon skaters will be selling tickets to the K&C faster than Clinton could say "How would you like to spend a night in Lincoln's bedroom?".

    Just because I'm a Mike fan doesn't mean that I love everything about him. Same goes for everyother skater.

    Although I do think that Mike has become the offical poster boy for acceptable web bashing, I have other beefs as well. It drives me crazy that often on the web, whenever one criticises even the smallest thing about a skater, even one of your own favorties, someone else will just automatically dismiss your feelings as simply the ravings of a jealous fan of a rival skater. Blech.

  4. #79
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    I don't see anything wrong with hollywood actors taking their kids out on teh red carpet for movie premiers and I see nothing wrong with skaters bringing their kids to a competition or show to watch them skate...

  5. #80
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    The only skater whom I have a "problem" with in terms of overexposing the private life is Katia Gordeeva (I don't know her so thus it's a "problem"). When she needed money she was perfectly willing to authorize a biography on her and Sergei and a children's book for Daria. However now that she is not hurting for money she isn't willing to talk about her marriage to Ilya Kulik or her new kid. Maybe Ilya wants privacy but I think that they could have given the fans something such as an interview with a pictorial. According to Lund's book, they turned down a spread in People.

    I don't necessary mind when a skater chooses to keep everything private (ie Todd E.) butg once they open the door on their private life to the public and profit off of it, I think it's kind of hypocritical to close the door and demand privacy.

    In terms of kid showing, lots of mothers bring their babies to the job to show them to co-workers while they are on maternity leave (proud fathers do this as well). I don't think that it's odd for a figure skater to want to show their kid off. Just because their job is in a public domain doesn't mean that they have to hide their kid away. I think it's nice to see skaters and their families. Skating is the one sport where fans have quite a bit of access to top skaters. You can go to the rink and watch them and later on in their career you might even take a lesson from one of them.

    Mikey grew on me this year (Henry VIII did it for me) and I think he softened up a lot. His struggles are endearing me to him and maybe he will have a breakout year at the Olympics. I think he has the goods to win a medal and at this moment, I am more impressed with Mikey than I am Johnny. Mikey tries the quad which is more than what Johnny has done. Also for all the folks jumping on the Johnny bandwagon, we need to wait until the next season to see where Johnny is on the quad. I personallly felt that fifth place for his program was quite a bit of a gift as he didn't even bother trying the hard jump and in the old system, trying the jump automatically gave you a higher base score. Johnny might do well in COP , but there are a number of guys (including Mike) whose elements and overall skating are just as good or better than Johnny's and include the quad jump (and can land it cleanly, ie Tim, Plushy, Brian, Stefan etc).

  6. #81
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Mike has also benefitted from the COP, it helps when your coach is one of the people involved with the work up on it... so we'll see how it goes...

    I also hope for him to have a break through year

    as for Katia not being in the public eye it might have more to do with Ilia than it does with anything else... or it could have to do with all of the negative stuff that was said by skating fans when she was pregnant Liza before she and he were married... who knows...

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by soogar
    Johnny might do well in COP , but there are a number of guys (including Mike) whose elements and overall skating are just as good or better than Johnny's and include the quad jump (and can land it cleanly, ie Tim, Plushy, Brian, Stefan etc).
    Are you actually serious? I don't make predictions on how he will skate next year because talent is not everything, but Weir's quality of skating is superb, probably only comparable to Plushenko. THAT is the reason why he got such high marks at Worlds and other competitions throughout the year even without a quad LOL

    And I disagree with you about Ekaterina Gordeeva. People have the right to change their minds and sure have the right to change their "policies" regarding privacy or media. Happens all the time. I bet you, soogar, changed your views on a good number of important matters as your life went on. Such is everybody's life, including Gordeeva's. Is that being hypocritical? If so, then we all are LOL There's a common saying over here that says something like "only the dumb ones don't change their minds". Gordeeva "demanded" privacy? How's that a bad thing? Heck, if there's one thing all human beings have the right to demand is privacy!

    Many people probably would like to go on reading about her life, but she's not a character of a drama movie where you have the right to know the end. It's her life and whatever she choose to do with it has to be respected. I admire her very much to have the strength to go on with her life, marry again and dare to be happy without having to follow fans wishes and demands (what kind of fan is the one who demands interviews or magazine covers anyway?) She was in the public eye for so long, it has got to feel good to have privacy.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIskatingfan
    If he doesn't win oh bad, BAD Weiss. If he wins, oh but that was because the bad, BAD judging, Weiss didn't deserve it He sure can't win any way.
    I think Weiss is pretty consistent, which makes him useful to the US Men's team in the short term, but dull, with the exception of the first 2/3 of his Worlds 2003 SP. Whether he wins or loses depends on whether those who are technically more able perform well; I've not seen him seize the moment, so to speak.

    The buzz in my section at Worlds 2003 was that Jahnke should have won Weiss' quali round and that Buttle was undermarked, but as unknowns, they were not given the scores they deserved. And this came from several Weiss fans from the DC area. (They weren't complaining, but felt Weiss was lucky in the quali round.)

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by hockeyfan228
    The buzz in my section at Worlds 2003 was that Jahnke should have won Weiss' quali round and that Buttle was undermarked, but as unknowns, they were not given the scores they deserved. And this came from several Weiss fans from the DC area. (They weren't complaining, but felt Weiss was lucky in the quali round.)
    FWIW, my notes on jump content from the qual round are:

    Weiss: 4t/3t (both jumps two-footed), 4t (two-footed again), 3x/3t (barely held onto it), 3r (ditto), 2x, 3f, 3s, 3z.

    Honda: 4t/3t, 4s (step out and hand down), 3x (barely), 4t (step out), 3f, 2r, 3 flutz.

    Jahnke: 3x/2t, 3f/3r, 3z/3t, 2x, 'tano 3z, 3r, 3s, 2x.

    Buttle (6th in the other group): 3t, 3z (wild), 3x/3t, 2s, 3s, 3x (fall out), 2r, 3f.

    IIRC, Jahnke did get at least one first-place ordinal, but I suspect that the problem wasn't that he was unknown, just that the judges weren't going to put a skater who wasn't attempting a quad in medal contention no matter what.

  10. #85
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    Dr. Frog, you seem to forget that Weiss did not attempt a single quad under CoP last season, and already you are dissing Weir because he didn't do any at Worlds.

    If Weiss HAD done 2-foot quads, he wouldn't have made it to the GPF, and he knew it, so he backed off. Kevin Van Der Perren made it to the GPF too, with no quad.

    There is NO comparison between the quality of Weir's jumps and Weiss's. Weir's jumps are textbook, clean as a whistle and light as air. Weiss's 3A is 50-50 much of the time. His entry into the 3A is just plain ugly, and that may be part of the reason why he struggles with it.

    Weir's SP and FS at Worlds were squeaky clean and flowing, just as they were at Nationals. Because of his 2-foot quads and wonky 3As, Weiss never has a clean performance.

    I think it is a big credit to Weir that he was the only one in the top 6 at Worlds with no quad. And he got there because the quality of his skating is superb. I think we will be seeing Johnny's quad in a few months from now, and I have a feeling it will be as good as his other jumps.

  11. #86
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    Huh? I didn't say anything about Weir in my previous post, much less "diss" him. I was only referring to the facts of what happened at 2003 Worlds, where Weir did not participate. But now that you bring him up, I think 5th was about the very best he could possibly have placed at this year's Worlds without a quad, and it's to his credit that he was able to turn in the kind of consistent performances that earned him that placement.

    And, speaking of facts, it is certainly a fact that Weiss *did* attempt quads under CoP last season. He attempted them in the short program at Skate America and in the free skate at all three of his regular Grand Prix events.
    Last edited by dr.frog; 07-08-2004 at 03:55 PM.

  12. #87
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    There's a difference between CoP scoring, which has exact values for the relative difficulty between jumps, as well as a caller to call underrotations, and OBO scoring, or The Cult of the Quad. I think that dr. frog is right in saying that at 2003 Worlds, the judges wouldn't be willing to give 1st, even in a weak round -- weak by overall performance level, not by skater rankings -- to a skater without a quad, when others in the round were attempting them.

    Under CoP, the base scores are:

    4T/3T: 12.5
    3A/3T: 12
    3F/3R: 10.9
    3Z/3T: 10.6
    3F/3T: 10.1
    3A/2T: 8.8

    so a program with 3F/3R and 3Z/3T (21.5 base) landed cleanly or better could out-score a double-footed 4T/3T and barely landed 3A/3T (24.5 base, but -2 for the two-foots and -1 for the second combo). A properly landed Tano 3Z (base 6.1-7.1, if additional difficulty counted) should outscore a double-footed 4T (8 base -2).

    The question is whether the quad factor will be added to component scores, against the rules of CoP. The ISU dropped displaying the level of difficulty assigned by the callers at the request of the judges, because they said they tended to mark higher, the higher the level of difficulty. However, every judge knows what a Quad is.

    I think the reasons that Weir was given credit for his skate in Dortmund -- although not by all nine judges -- are that he skated in the final group and that Weiss' energy level and content was dull by comparison (to Weir and the other four skaters in the group.) There was a marked contrast between Weir's flow and engagement in his program -- not to mention his textbook jumps, except for one -- and Weiss'. I think that if Weiss had skated in the same group as Sandhu, he would have been behind ES, based on the overall quality and energy of Sandhu's LP. (While Weiss' LP was the 6th best, he also had two 10th place ordinals.) Under CoP the groups might not have mattered; what certainly would have been considered in Sandhu's favor was the level of difficulty and performance of his spins and footwork.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by hockeyfan228
    The question is whether the quad factor will be added to component scores, against the rules of CoP.
    I think it's quite clear that the judges were assigning the component scores based on other "factors" on the Grand Prix last season, and using them to "hold up" the skaters they wanted to hold up.

  14. #89
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    Hockeyfan - Thanks for the base scores of some combos. My question is, and I am sure we will be seeing this is:

    What would a 4Tx3T be if the skater DOUBLE FOOTED the Landing of the 3T?; FELL OUT of the 3T? and FELL COMPLETELY on the 3T? and lastly the skater did not complete the rotation of the 3T?

    I'm just thinking for example, if a skater gets full base score and minus 3 the most for not executing a perfect second part of the combo.

    He would get 12.5 for the attempted combo and - 3 for the faulty second part giving him a score of 9,5 which is more than a clean skater would get for a 3Ax2T or maybe a 3Ax3T. Am I correct? If so, would you say clean skating doesn't count as much as missed attempts in the Technical Mark.

    Joe

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    Hockeyfan - Thanks for the base scores of some combos. My question is, and I am sure we will be seeing this is:

    What would a 4Tx3T be if the skater DOUBLE FOOTED the Landing of the 3T?; FELL OUT of the 3T?
    As I understand it, depending on the severity of the double footing or falling out, and also the quality of the entry into the quad, the quad itself and it's landing, and the beginning and air phase of the triple, -1 (only if everything else was great and the combo would have been +1 or +2 without the error) to -3.

    and FELL COMPLETELY on the 3T?
    -3

    and lastly the skater did not complete the rotation of the 3T?
    The triple would count as a double with its much lower base mark, and then there would also likely be a negative grade of execution.

    I'm just thinking for example, if a skater gets full base score and minus 3 the most for not executing a perfect second part of the combo.

    He would get 12.5 for the attempted combo and - 3 for the faulty second part giving him a score of 9,5 which is more than a clean skater would get for a 3Ax2T or maybe a 3Ax3T. Am I correct?
    According to hockeyfan's list, 3A/3T is worth 12.0; the only way it would be worth less than a flawed 4T/3T would be if it were comparably flawed.

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