Stephane Lambiel - 2004 Worlds
Johnny Weir - 2004 Worlds
Sasha Cohen - 2002 Olympics
Ina & Zimmerman - 2002 Olympics
Maria Butirskaya - 2001 Worlds
Bourne & Kraatz - 1998 Olympics
Irina Slutskaya - 1997 Worlds
Michelle Kwan - 1995 Worlds
Midori Ito - 1988 Olympics
Other (Please Explain)
I know that we have gone through the best Gold, Silver and Bronze medal performances. I then started to wonder: who had the best 4th (or lower) place finish? What skater(s) performed the best non-medal winning LP? I think we should consider both Olympics and Worlds for this particular poll.
I was so mad! There was only space for 10 options and I had to leave out Vanessa Gusmeroli's brilliant "Legends of the Fall" LP performance from the 2000 Worlds. But, I still would have picked Michelle at the 1995 Worlds. She gave a tremendous performance that even left me shocked. Certainly, she wasn't the artist she'd become later, but it was still an incredible performance. I think it was the best non-medal winning performance I can recall.
Midori's LP in '88 Olympics was awesome. She was so far back in the compulsories that she could not be a medal contender but she received a row of 5.9's for tech marks. Normally you don't see those marks for skaters that skate early.
Vash
I voted other, for Denise Beilmann's '80 performances in Lake Placid. Technically light yeara ahead of the 3 medalsits and also the most lively and interesting choreo/performance.
Didn't Denise Biellmann win the freeskate in Lake Placid? How did she place in the SP?
All are great choices, but my favorite is definently I&Z 2002 Olympics.
Denise was 2nd in the SP behind Linda.Originally Posted by BronzeisGolden
Figures:
1 Anett, 2 Dagmar, 3 Linda, 4 Emi, 8 Lisa-Marie, 12 Denise
SP:
1 Linda, 2 Denise, 3 Lisa-Marie, 4 Anett, 5 Dagmar, 8th Emi
LP:
1 Denise, 2 Linda, 3 Anett, 4 Lisa-Marie, 5 Emi, 6 Dagmar
Finish:
G Anett, S Linda, B Dagmar, 4th Denise, 5th Lisa-Marie, 6th Emi
Tough one! I didn't vote because I still can't make up my mind!!!
Either Midori - she was so great but she really did leave herself too much to do. I think she was 14th after figuresAs BG said about Biellmann, Midori's was the next performance on a huge stage that really changed Ladies skating. Again light years ahead of everyone else technically.
Or Kwan - I was there and she was truly awesome. The only full standing O of the final group IIRC and the best performance of her career up to that point. What makes hers so interesting is the marking. Midori and Denise got the marks they deserved but Michelle really didn't. But that was all from the SP. If she'd been in 4th going into the free as she should have been, then she probably could have medalled. Still can't really decide but Kwan maybe has the edge because of the wuzrobbed element.
Definitely Ina and Zimmerman. Granted, the pairs field at the '02 olympics was extremely deep, but they got ripped off. They definitely deserved to beat the pair who came in fourth (wasn't it Totmianina and Marinin?). Ina & Zimmerman's performance was the best I've seen by an American pair since I began really watching skating (not too long ago). No one was paying attention to how they got ripped off because of the pairs scandal, though. :sheesh:
Ina and Z should've gotten at least 4th or maybe even a bronze. they were flawless. and they DEF. should've been ahead of T/M. :sheesh:
They could not have gotten the bronze. They could not have beaten S&Z. I did like their LP better than T&M's. What hurt them the most was being 5th in the SP. It put them in the next to last skating group (they had a small mistake in the SP). Judges normally save the high marks for the last group.
Vash
I voted for Stephane Lambiel in 2004 Worlds. IMO, he should have been SECOND in the LP (behind Plushenko), not fourth. He was fantastic.
Other incredible non-medal-winning performances definitely include Midori in 88 Olympics and Ina & Zimmerman in 02 Olympics. (I&Z weren't flawless - she put her hand down on a double axel - but they were amazing anyway.) I'd also give a mention to Kevin van der Perren in 04 Worlds. No quad, but a clean 3axel, 3-3-3 and 3-3 and a great performance. And I vaguely remember Kwan being great in her 95 LP, but I haven't watched that for ages (must watch it again).
I thought that too as I was watching the competition live. But the other day I re-watched my Worlds tape and I had some different feelings on that matter.
Lambiel had 7 triples and two quads, his spins (that didn't travel much that night), some good footwork... but I found his program overall a little sloppy. The jumps were landed but I don't think there was one jump with a clean landing or good flow. He also did two combinations but he stepped out of the 4T-3T and in both combos he took a long time to add the second jump. I also thought the choreography could be better, I don't think the program was exactly an advantage, it didn't even highlight his great spins. Lambiel is an amazing dancer and I was thrilled by the end of the program because he didn't have such a good performance in such a long time. Maybe that affected a little my reasoning at the time.
Joubert landed one triple less than Lambiel, also two quads, his spins are weak (although better centered than Lambiel's) and two footwork sections. But I thought the program worked so much better than Lambiel's as a whole. The jumps we can't even compare: huge, solid and clean landings with good flow. His quad was textbook. He only had one combination (the 4T-3T late in the program) and the landing of the 3T wasn't perfect, although in one foot. But I thought the jumps were far superior to Lambiel's. And like Morozov or not, the program was decently choreographed and it worked very well for Joubert. IMO it was balanced and he interpreted it well, the footwork went with the music... it was a very solid performance, more controlled. And this is probably why he got higher presentation marks, as well as for the technical.
The programs themselves and stuff like the jump landings was what made the difference IMO. Joubert was cleaner and so he was placed second. Mind you, this comes from someone who enjoys Lambiel much more than Joubert. Hopefully he'll get a good program next year and if he keeps working, now that he doesn't have to worry about school, his performances will be even better. Can't wait for the day when we can read "World Champion, Stephane Lambiel"Looks nice
RISkatingFan - Thanks for replying. Here's my reasoning why I think Stephane deserved to be above Brian -
They had similar jump passes - both did one 3axel (not in combo) and a 4toe3toe (with a slight mistake on the 3toe landing, Stephane stepping out and Brian hopping out), and the rest of the triples. Stephane did one more triple than Brian, but he also had a 3-3 that Brian didn't (3flip-3toe). He may have paused between them, but it was clean, and a 3-3 should give him an advantage in the jumps area when Brian didn't do one, his only combo being the 4-3. I agree that overall Brian's landing were more solid, but not that much more. Stephane was leaning a little on a couple of the landings, but IIRC Brian wasn't so solid on at least one either (can't remember which - would have to re-watch). Re: the spins, Stephane is clearly miles ahead, not only in the speed and quality but the range of positions and variations which should be taken into account. Footwork - Stephane had some very difficult step sequences, including lots of clockwise turns, some of them very difficult, and he performed them cleanly and with character. Brian's were good too, but just didn't have the same level of difficulty. Most people also didn't notice that he had a mistake at the end of his straight-line steps - he did a butterfly, but the landing on it wasn't the best, which prevented him from doing the final few turns that were supposed to come after it (if you wach his performance from Europeans, you'll see what I mean).
Taking into account their relative programmes, I think Stephane was again ahead. Some people accuse him of being "sloppy", but I don't really see that. He wasn't as refined as a ballet dancer, but he's such a good dancer that he doesn't need to be, and I think his style suited the flamenco style of the programme. Brian's programme, while it's nice, is relatively empty. Don't get me wrong, I like it and I like him, but the majority of it is on two feet, and the choreography is really quite simplistic. Stephane's, on the other hand, is full of choreography and movement and difficulty. Skating may be subjective, but programme content is more objective than some things, and should be reflected in the marks.
On the jumps aspect, I will add that although Lambiel had a second combination and one more triple, the quality of Joubert's jumps was miles ahead of Lambiel's. Not only you have to throw them in, you have to do them well. And if you see, that was one thing Lindemann and Joubert had in common and they both placed ahead of Lambiel. Clean jumps (and overall "cleaner" program, in the sense of more controlled). Stephane has some polishing to do in the jumps otherwise he'll be punished harshly by COP. Is he going to be with Mishin this summer? It might be good for him if it happens.
I don't think that a good skater (or dancer) needs to be like a ballet dancer, but some extension and control of body movement is important. So while I definitely agree that Stephane's program had lots of "movement" LOL that doesn't exactly mean better choreography. IMO Joubert's was better in that aspect. A better designed program IMO, the elements were placed better than in Lambiel's... I believe Lambiel lost in the presentation mark (as outrageous as it seemed when I watched it live) exactly because the program itself wasn't good enough. I'm thinking it may not have been a good idea for Lambiel to use different LPs at Euros and Worlds. As nice as it is to see two different LPs from the same skater, it may be better to focus on just one and work on it. There is a reason why skaters stick with two programs (SP and LP) a season and some even use them in more than one season.
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