Brexit or Bremain? What's your take? | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Brexit or Bremain? What's your take?

solani

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Country
Austria
Thanks for the links.
It is reported by the Polish TV channel TVP Info, which obtained a copy of the document signed by the German and French Foreign Ministries.
Sly Polish TV channel TVP Info to be able to obtain such a document! :biggrin:
I just wonder why other tabloids didn't jump on the bandwagon ... maybe because they have some conscience left.

@Sam-Skwantch
The situation is weird. The Brexit "winners" are paralyzed. They're not behaving as if they were expecting this outcome, as if they wanted this outcome. They already said that they cannot deliver the goods, like the amount of money they promised for the national healthcare system. They lied. Johnson said today that nothing would really change, but that migration should be fair and possible (or something like that) for all people around the World, not just for EU citizens. I don't think that this is what the Brexit voters want, because obviously Brexit votes were high in cities with lots of workers from the EU, f.e. Polish workers (I read in the Sun (tabloid paper)). And then some Brexit voters say that they didn't really want this, because they tought they would stay in the EU anyway. :scratch2:
And I agree with you, I like honest level-headed politicians best.

My favourite Brexit cartoon.
 
Last edited:

Spinning

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 10, 2015
Thanks for the links.

Sly Polish TV channel TVP Info to be able to obtain such a document! :biggrin:
I just wonder why other tabloids didn't jump on the bandwagon ... maybe because they have some conscience left.

Since you've mentioned The Sun as your reading preference, clearly you and I have a big different
definition on sly sources. I'm out!
 

solani

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Country
Austria
Since you've mentioned The Sun as your reading preference, clearly you and I have a big different
definition on sly sources. I'm out!
:) I have a facebook account and people I know are sharing articles. I remind you that I wrote that the Sun is a tabloid (for those who don't know the paper, I guess most do.). And it's also about the mood in the UK now, as well as it's about the mood in Poland and in the Ukraine and tabloids do reflect that. We all should know that this is not necessarily the truth.
I'm still waiting for a reliable source to replicate the precious information from that Polish tv channel.
 

CaroLiza_fan

EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA
Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2012
Country
Northern-Ireland

The Daily Express was the newspaper that actually starterd the calls to leave the EU, way back in 2010. Long before the idea of leaving had any widespread support. So, you have to keep that in mind when reading their stories.

(I read in the Sun (tabloid paper)).

Ah, that well respected Rupert Murdoch owned publication that puts pictures of naked women on their third page every weekday.

(I'm being sarcastic with the "well respected" bit!)

Since you've mentioned The Sun as your reading preference, clearly you and I have a big different definition on sly sources. I'm out!

:laugh:

For those that don't know, The Sun was one of the publications that was hacking people's phones to get stories.

Are we talking about this publication?

:dance2: the Sun:dance2:

Yup.

My favourite Brexit cartoon.

Can I just point out some major mistakes in that cartoon? In the final box, the three small figures actually represent Wales, Scotland and Cornwall. As is often the case, Northern Ireland doesn't seem to exist.

Oh, and Wales and Cornwall actually voted to leave the EU (by 52.5% for the Welsh and by 56.5% for the Cornish).

Politically I'm an honest independent who votes both republican or democrat. Basically any politician that isn't extreme in either direction. I wish people like that spoke up more and became popular. It always seems to be those empty barrels making the most noise.

Oh, it is good to know that I am not the only one that isn't tied to a particular party.

Like America, we have tribal politics here in Northern Ireland. But, unlike practically everybody else, I don't feel any alegience towards any of the parties. None of them have the same beliefs as I do. And as for the politicians themselves, you couldn't like them even if you had reared them! They are all talk about moving forward, but they are not actually doing anything. They just keep things the same as they have always been. Nobody goes into politics to make things better; they just go in to line their own pockets (and very well lined they get too!) And that is not just some of them; that is every single one of them! So, I refuse to vote for any of them.

The situation is weird. The Brexit "winners" are paralyzed. They're not behaving as if they were expecting this outcome, as if they wanted this outcome. They already said that they cannot deliver the goods, like the amount of money they promised for the national healthcare system. They lied. Johnson said today that nothing would really change, but that migration should be fair and possible (or something like that) for all people around the World, not just for EU citizens. I don't think that this is what the Brexit voters want, because obviously Brexit votes were high in cities with lots of workers from the EU, f.e. Polish workers (I read in the Sun (tabloid paper)). And then some Brexit voters say that they didn't really want this, because they tought they would stay in the EU anyway. :scratch2:

The problem is that the politicians are out of touch with the general public. They were too busy listening to the business leaders and other politicians, and did not realise that ordinary people were quite as dissatisfied with the EU as they actually were.

The politicians were never expecting the referendum to actually succeed. They were just using this vote to draw up the battle lines for the next general election. And they were gunked when the result didn't go the way they assumed it would.

David Cameron was never happy with being in the EU. And hasn't been for years. But, during the discussions with the EU last year, something was clearly said to him that scared him, as he quickly made himself the frontman of the remain campaign. He didn't want to be the one remembered as being responsible for upsetting the apple cart. As can be seen now by the fact that he is refusing to trigger Article 50 himself.

Boris Johnson, on the other hand, was always a remain man. But, because he wants to become party leader once Cameron stands down (Cameron said after the last election that he would stand down after this term of office), he had to position himself differently to Cameron. And it is not as if Boris has never switched sides on something before if he thinks it will help him in the long run.

But, Cameron has outmanoeuvred him. Cameron has announced that he will resign as a result of the referendum decision... but not until after the Conservative Party conference in October. And he has not triggered Article 50; he has left it to his successor. Due to the closeness and controversy around the result, Boris knows that if he became leader and had to trigger it, then it would lose him a lot of support. And probably the next general election. And hence it would lose him the leadership, and finish his career.

And anybody else who had ideas of becoming Conservative Party leader realises the same.

So, it will probably end up that nobody will stand for the leadership, and Cameron will stay on. And by that time, he and the EU leaders will have worked out some sort of compromise that they think will keep everybody happy. And Article 50 may not have to be triggered.


Anyway, getting back to what I was talking about, and the only figureheads of the campaigns that were not lying about where their allegience lay were Jeremy Corbyn (Labour) and Nigel Farage (UKIP). Corbyn is an old-style Socialist, so of course he would like the idea of bringing Europe together. And Farage long ago made it his mission in life to get the UK out of the EU.

Corbyn is a highly controversial figure. He made his name as a Trade Union activist, and many of the politicians in the Labour party never liked him. After the previous Labour party leader resigned, Corbyn was the outsider in the leadership elections. But, he won due to his support in the unions.

Corbyn's beliefs and style of leadership have alienated many of his party's members and their supporters. And the party have been trying to oust him ever since he was elected, because they know that they will have no chance at the general elections with him in charge. But, he will not be shifted.

Farage is also highly controversial. He is one of those politicians that is all about bluster. He was getting carried away with himself during the campaign. Saying things that sounded good, but were not entirely accurate. It is because of him and his big mouth that the Leave campaign is now having to make so many corrections, and is getting discredited as a result.

But, the Remain campaign were also making claims that were not entirely accurate. For example, attributing things to the EU that were actually done by NATO. And making claims that a vote one way or another would do this or that to the economy, when we know that you cannot predict exactly what will happen to the economy. Otherwise, we would have prevented all these recessions.

Both sides were lying like mad, and scaremongering like mad. They were not presenting us with hard facts.

So, is it any wonder that what should have been a straightforward decision has turned into a complete mess?!

@Sam-Skwantch

And I agree with you, I like honest level-headed politicians best.

And that is exactly what we don't have. And this referendum has made that blindingly obvious.

CaroLiza_fan
 
Last edited:

Spinning

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 10, 2015
@CariLiza_fan
I only gave first three results from Google searches in responsed to psusanne's request for a News source. There are more articles popping up later today from The Guardian, The Telegraph and the BBC.

I came from Eastbourne so I have a very good idea about The Express. John Bodkin Adams's case is our local nightmare.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bodkin_Adams



I didn't claim it as a trustable news outlet just a source for this Euro Superstate.

Today the BBC run the analysis article on Thai companies thriving under political turmoil. It features the guy who ran away with 30m USD from his internet e-coupon scheme, Ensogo.
http://m.bangkokpost.com/business/1017481

I guess even BBC is not exactly quite a legit source.
 

solani

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Country
Austria
@CariLiza_fan
I only gave first three results from Google searches in responsed to psusanne's request for a News source. There are more articles popping up later today from The Guardian, The Telegraph and the BBC.
I'd like to have the link to that article from The Guardian.
I found read this article from The Telegraph (EDIT: this article is form May 2016, so this information is old) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/02/the-eu-exists-only-to-become-a-superstate-britain-has-no-place-i/
But there's nothing about a document signed by the German and the French Foreign Ministries in it. The article says that the EU is bound to become a superstate. It's only an opinion, not an outlined plan.

So I'm still waiting for a reliable source for that information. I mean, we all know that the EU is not what it could and should be. But the EU isn't utterly stupid. And it would be stupid to promote and European Superstate, when so many citizens in the EU are so very dissatisfied with the EU just now. To me this is only propaganda against the EU. Nothing more.
I'm very interested in what will become of Brexit. Somehow I don't that it's going to happen.
 
Last edited:

sneakers

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 24, 2015
Now that Brexit has happened

EU has fully become a Franco-German alliance as it was originally founded
its now Germany runs the trains and government, France makes the bread and the rest are fiefs ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svERJn9tmIY&feature=youtu.be

on a good note, Germany is the undisputed powerhouse of Europe, what WW1 and WW2 Germany failed
it took an economic integration for Germany to rule Europe, Hitler was sooo dumb. lol
 

CaroLiza_fan

EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA
Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2012
Country
Northern-Ireland
@CariLiza_fan
I only gave first three results from Google searches in responsed to psusanne's request for a News source. There are more articles popping up later today from The Guardian, The Telegraph and the BBC.

I came from Eastbourne so I have a very good idea about The Express. John Bodkin Adams's case is our local nightmare.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bodkin_Adams



I didn't claim it as a trustable news outlet just a source for this Euro Superstate.

Don't worry, that wasn't intended as a criticism. I just wanted to provide a bit of context for the members that are not familiar with the biases in the British press.

But, my goodness! I had never heard the story about Bodkin-Adams before! Which is surprising given the publicity there was over the more recent Shipman case.

Just can't get over what some of our press will do to get an exclusive.

CaroLiza_fan
 

madison

Record Breaker
Joined
May 2, 2015
I'd like to have the link to that article from The Guardian.
I found read this article from The Telegraph (EDIT: this article is form May 2016, so this information is old) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/02/the-eu-exists-only-to-become-a-superstate-britain-has-no-place-i/
But there's nothing about a document signed by the German and the French Foreign Ministries in it. The article says that the EU is bound to become a superstate. It's only an opinion, not an outlined plan.

So I'm still waiting for a reliable source for that information. I mean, we all know that the EU is not what it could and should be. But the EU isn't utterly stupid. And it would be stupid to promote and European Superstate, when so many citizens in the EU are so very dissatisfied with the EU just now. To me this is only propaganda against the EU. Nothing more.
I totally agree with this :). A lot a propaganda and manipulation is carried on this topic.

I'm very interested in what will become of Brexit. Somehow I don't that it's going to happen.
I hope BREXIT is going to happen. UK won't find its identity inside EU, at least on short and medium term.. it's a matter of values, of faith, of symbolism for usual people. Why to stay in EU if they don't believe in it? Only to ask for preferential measures and in time of crisis to get rid of it?

So I'm still waiting for a reliable source for that information. I mean, we all know that the EU is not what it could and should be. But the EU isn't utterly stupid. And it would be stupid to promote and European Superstate, when so many citizens in the EU are so very dissatisfied with the EU just now. To me this is only propaganda against the EU. Nothing more.
I totally agree with this :). A lot a propaganda and manipulation is carried on this topic.
 
Last edited:

hurrah

Medalist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Wow, Brexit happened!!

I was a little surprised but not that surprised at the same time. My experience of living in Britain is that there is a strong element of insularity to British culture and society that doesn't make them particularly 'nice' or 'kind', but nevertheless, I really respect them for their choice, because they put their money where their mouth is, and damn the consequences!

That Churchillesque mindset is precious in this day and age.
 
Top