How do Choreographers do the job?

Okay this may be kinda a dumb question but what exactly is the choreographer's job? Do they just tell a skater what to do from the sides or do they actually get on the ice and demonstrate what they want? I mean, some of Mao's steps are kinda involved...so how does an older individual like say, Tatiana Tarasova actually show Mao what her vision is for her? Or is it more like they mix the music, generally lay out where jumps will be (like first half, second half), and then go "Okay Mao, here, do a sit spin like you usually do...and here, do steps"...like that?

Imagine said:

Okay this may be kinda a dumb question but what exactly is the choreographer's job? Do they just tell a skater what to do from the sides or do they actually get on the ice and demonstrate what they want? I mean, some of Mao's steps are kinda involved...so how does an older individual like say, Tatiana Tarasova actually show Mao what her vision is for her? Or is it more like they mix the music, generally lay out where jumps will be (like first half, second half), and then go "Okay Mao, here, do a sit spin like you usually do...and here, do steps"...like that?

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At lower levels, coaches-regardless of age-will often show a skater what they are supposed to do. At higher levels, I have no idea.

However, if someone could answer this specifically for ice dance, that would be very helpful. (I'm attempting to write a novel focusing on junior ice dance teams and I have no idea how their choreography would get done. If it helps at all, the coaches/choreographers are a recently-retired dance team, so they would likely be able to show their teams exactly what they wanted...if that's how it works?)

I hope I'm not imagining this, but I believe there's a fluff piece out there from '92 about Lori Nichol's choreographic "process" for making Kristi Yamiguchi's programs? I just tried searching YouTube for the video but wasn't successful, so I hope I'm not making this up.

SarahSynchro said:

I hope I'm not imagining this, but I believe there's a fluff piece out there from '92 about Lori Nichol's choreographic "process" for making Kristi Yamiguchi's programs? I just tried searching YouTube for the video but wasn't successful, so I hope I'm not making this up.

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There was another thread called How choreography is developed. I think that might be the video you were looking for?

Pamigena said:

There was another thread called How choreography is developed. I think that might be the video you were looking for?

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Ah yes, that's it. Thanks. Now at least I know I wasn't making it up!

Pamigena said:

There was another thread called How choreography is developed. I think that might be the video you were looking for?

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What a fascinating little documentary...so most coaches do work this way I take it? This was very helpful thank you! I didn't know my question was going to be turned into a thread, but since it is its own thread now, I think I'd like to see if there is any more interesting information on this subject. Back to the example, I really like the choreography Tarasova has done for Mao and others, but a lot of times the programs are very dynamic. I was just confused as to how a coach of her advanced age would go about demonstrating the intricate movements in those pieces as surely, her on-ice mobility must have declined over time. So it's like, how much of the program is actually the work of the choreographer vs the effort of the skater(s)?

She probably describes it in detail and corrects them as they are figuring out the directions. A lot of the steps do have names, and I'm sure she has assistants to help demonstrate. There were recent videos of Tatiana Tarasova on the ice itself barking at Kovtun (she even smacked him). I remember watching a fluff piece during the 2002 Olympics showing her off in the sidelines yelling something in a very passionate way to Yagudin while he was practicing back in their training base.

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I'm not sure why a choreographer would need to physically demonstrate the moves to "own" them. If that were the case, only current male skaters and Rohene Ward (who can still reel off a mean 3A, and, it is said, a quad or two) could choreo for the men.

In 2014, the NY Times posted this fascinating look at how Kori and Rohene designed Riverdance for Jason Brown for maximum points and impact

www.nytimes.com/2014/02/13/sports/o...ciplined-approach-yields-joy-on-ice.html?_r=0

SarahSynchro said:

I hope I'm not imagining this, but I believe there's a fluff piece out there from '92 about Lori Nichol's choreographic "process" for making Kristi Yamiguchi's programs? I just tried searching YouTube for the video but wasn't successful, so I hope I'm not making this up.

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That choreographer was Sandra Bezic, not Lori Nichol.

carriecmu0503 said:

That choreographer was Sandra Bezic, not Lori Nichol.

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Ah you're right, sorry. I guess I did make some of it up: exchanging one popular female Canadian choreographer for another.

el henry said:

I'm not sure why a choreographer would need to physically demonstrate the moves to "own" them. If that were the case, only current male skaters and Rohene Ward (who can still reel off a mean 3A, and, it is said, a quad or two) could choreo for the men.

In 2014, the NY Times posted this fascinating look at how Kori and Rohene designed Riverdance for Jason Brown for maximum points and impact

www.nytimes.com/2014/02/13/sports/o...ciplined-approach-yields-joy-on-ice.html?_r=0

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An excellent article--thank you for sharing! I learned a lot about the process of chroeography and early judges' input that I didn't know before. I had to smile when I read the part about Jason being happy that he had 100 views on a video. I've probably watched some of his programs that many times--and that's just me!

Ashley Wagner used to have a (very interesting) youtube channel and she did post a video of her working with Phillip Mills on her Swan Lake program.

I also suggest you to listen to Manleywoman's interview with Phillip Mills.

Pretty sure Igor shows a lot on the ice judging from fluff pieces like this one with Chock/Bates.

From what I’ve read on the subject, it seems to me that the coach generally decides on the elements and their sequence, and gives this list to the choreographer, who creates the choreography (what happens between the elements). It makes sense because I think most choreographers don’t know the requirements for levels for various elements; that’s the coach’s job who, after all, knows what the skater can and should do. That’s why we see former ice dancers choreograph for single and pairs skaters, and former single skaters choreograph for ice dancers, and sometimes people who haven’t been skaters choreograph competitive fs programs.

As for being or not being able to demonstrate something physically, naturally a female coach like Moskvina or Mozer can’t physically demonstrate lifts, twists and throws, and now not jumps either, Mishin and Orser never did quads themselves, and I doubt Shpilband can do level four twizzles. I think most of it is achieved through explanations, and for some things, like lifts in pairs and ID, there are specialists who can demonstrate them. Also, I think when coaches start their careers they can do a lot of things, and later, if they’re successful, they can hire assistants who can demonstrate how to do various elements. Choreographers probably can also explain lots of things and show positions, standing on the floor. I wonder if they also draw some positions. And I think someone like Tarasova would also have assistants.

Good luck on your novel! The idea of focusing on junior ice dancers sounds very intresting! On the one hand it won't be about learning to move on the ice, but on the other they have all the development into real pros (in the general sense of the word) ahead of them. And the world needs realistic novels about figure skating, without murders, suicides and some such nonsense. I'm sure there's lots of corruption in the ISU and member federations, but they don't operate quite like drug cartels.

You should read these 2 interviews by Absoluteskating too:
Lori Nichol
Salomé Brunner

More interviews with choreographers:

TSL has a very long interview with Phillip Mills, a ballet dancer who became a skating choreographers
Part I
http://www.theskatinglesson.com/new-blog-1/part-one-of-our-interview-with-phillip-mills
Part II
http://www.theskatinglesson.com/new-blog-1/part-two-of-our-interview-with-phillip-mills

Inside Skating has a good interview with Antonio Najarro, another dancer who choreographs for skaters
http://www.insideskating.net/tag/inside-skating-interview-with-antonio-najarro


DWTS dancer Derek Hough who worked on Meryl Davis and Charlie White's SD for the Olympics is interviewed here:
http://www.tvguide.com/news/derek-hough-meryl-davis-charlie-white-olympics-ice-dancing-1077814/


An interview with Bollywood dancer Anuja Rajenda about working on Davis & White's Bollywood OD
http://www.meryl-charlie.com/2010/01/detroit-free-press-interview-with-anuja.html

http://goldsea.com/Text/index.php?id=4164

Imagine said:

... what exactly is the choreographer's job? Do they just tell a skater what to do from the sides or do they actually get on the ice and demonstrate what they want? ...

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dorispulaski said:

More interviews with choreographers:

TSL has a very long interview with Phillip Mills, a ballet dancer who became a skating choreographers
Part I
http://www.theskatinglesson.com/new-blog-1/part-one-of-our-interview-with-phillip-mills
Part II
http://www.theskatinglesson.com/new-blog-1/part-two-of-our-interview-with-phillip-mills ...

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:agree: The TSL interview with Phillip Mills was great .

A 2015 photo from Phillip's website shows him on ice demonstrating a movement alongside Max Aaron:

And from Oct 2013, a mini-video of Camerlengo on ice (although not in skates) demonstrating for Max shortly before Skate America:
(I'm not sure whether the scope of the OP's question includes the choreographer's work during the competitive season ... or is intended to be limited to only the initial sessions at which the choreo first was created.)