Disastrous Competitive Programs

[icenut84]

Well, in that case, how about the judges just award the medals without bothering to watch the programs? They can just award the medals to those with the best reputations or even the best practices.

I think what Dee4704 meant was that Alexei's performance was so bad that anyone could have beaten him (I wouldn't know, I haven't seen it), and that if she was Mike Weiss, she wouldn't parade it as a victory because obviously he hadn't beaten a clean Alexei, he may have almost been champion by default. Yagudin's performance pretty much took him out of the running.

[icenut84]

Another one I don't think anyone's mentioned - Hoffman & Elek in 04 Worlds FD. They had two falls, both on lifts. On one, she was upside down and he kind of stopped because he just couldn't hold her. It wasn't very elegant - she had to put both her hands on the ice and somehow get out of it. On the other, they were doing one of those "shoot-the-duck" lifts, and as he went onto one foot he just couldn't hold her and then both fell onto the ice. I think there may have been some other dicey moments in that performance too, like wobbles/stumbles (although I can't remember for definite). They lost all the wind from their sails though, and looked very disappointed.

[RealtorGal]

I think what Dee4704 meant was that Alexei's performance was so bad that anyone could have beaten him (I wouldn't know, I haven't seen it), and that if she was Mike Weiss, she wouldn't parade it as a victory because obviously he hadn't beaten a clean Alexei, he may have almost been champion by default. Yagudin's performance pretty much took him out of the running.

I understand perfectly well what she meant. It's just another opportunity to slam Mike--as though it was HIS fault that Alexei crashed.

[mpal2]

I understand perfectly well what she meant. It's just another opportunity to slam Mike--as though it was HIS fault that Alexei crashed.

Quick question, why is this a slam on Mike? I don't think anyone is blaming Mike for Alexei's fall.

If I were a skater, I think I would have a hard time feeling like a champ if I won a competition like that. It might be nice to win a medal, but I don't think it would be a win that I would brag about. I think my pride as a champion would come from beating the best at their best not beating someone on an obviously off night. But that's just me.

I won a piano competition once, but that's because the more gifted pianist showed up with the wrong attitude. I had my music perfectly memorized and practiced my butt off. He showed up thinking he would be the clear winner, didn't practice like he should have, forgot some of his music and lost. It certainly doesn't make me feel like a champ. I will never claim to be a better pianist because of it. I have a lot of other accomplishments that make the bragging list before that one.

[PrincessLeppard]

But, mpal, you were the best pianist on THAT day, and that's what mattered. Do you think Brian Joubert feels bad about his Euros win? I doubt it. And he shouldn't. Plushy screwed up that day, and Brian won, fairly. Alexei fell hard at GWG, Mike didn't. The only wins I wouldn't necessarily brag about if I were Mike would be his Nationals titles that he won when the rest of the field, and he, was a total mess, he was just the least messy. To me, his silver medal this year was great, and something to be proud of, because he skated well in a field that skated very well.

Laura

[mpal2]

I'm not saying that I shouldn't have won, I'm just saying that the competition isn't on my bragging list. It wasn't the best I ever played either. It would make my bragging list if I had played that piece the best ever in my life. I would probably brag on myself only and not even mention the win unless I was pushed into it.

I think there is a difference between being proud of yourself for doing your best and then being proud of yourself for being a champion. A lot of times, people forget to make that distinction. I tend to live in a strange world so I'll try to explain myself.

Personal best does not always equal best overall. I think we live in a world that loves to exaggerate and blurs that line whenever possible. Everything is supposedly better than anything else around it. Words that implied greatness are now common everyday use and it takes away the importance of what it should really mean.

For me personally, a champion used to mean the greatest overall. That should equal a very small list just by the nature of the word. Now there are several levels of champions since we have to call everyone who wins any event (great or small) a champion regardless of who was or wasn't there. There are champions of a single day (some bigger than others) and then there are champions in their overall career. This is true for any sport and not just skating. I think ego gets in the way and the advertising begins.

So, overall, I won an event where I wasn't really the best competitor and I didn't play my best. The whole thing just leaves me feeling empty therefore, the event isn't worth mentioning. But like I said, that's my little world.

[BronzeisGolden]

Oh, you're still a champion, Mpal2...lol! I definitely agree about using words too often and how that diminishes their impact and meaning. People have said that you can never say "I love you" enough....I think you can. I don't want a man that is telling me he loves me everytime I speak to him. It would take away from those moments where certain words and phrases are really appropriate and the most powerful. As for the whole "Mike only beat Alexei because Alexei had a bad day"....posh! That is like saying, "Well, Sarah only won because Michelle and Irina had off days." Too bad! Michelle and Irina could've beaten Sarah, and Alexei could have beaten Mike...but they didn't get the job done. I would be ecstatic to defeat anyone I knew was clearly better than me on most days. I used to run track in jr. high and high school and there was always this girl that managed to kick it past me in the last turn of the 400m....but I finally got her! I ran one of the best races in my life and she didn't. I was elated! It really doesn't matter that she proceeded to demolish me numerous times afterward, I still had that one victory. Okay......my "BronzeIsGolden is a Champion" fluff piece is over now. Anyway, you whipped that kid's lazy piano tail that day....savor it!

[mpal2]

I ran one of the best races in my life and she didn't. I was elated! It really doesn't matter that she proceeded to demolish me numerous times afterward, I still had that one victory. Okay......my "BronzeIsGolden is a Champion" fluff piece is over now. Anyway, you whipped that kid's lazy piano tail that day....savor it!

But that made the difference didn't it? Knowing that you ran one of the best races of your life? I didn't play my best. I took piano lessons for 12 years and I have much better memories. In fact, the only reason why I even remember winning this competition is because my sister just brought it up the other day.

To end on a positive note (after totally sidetracking this thread ), I won grand prize at a cheesy high school talent show. The other contenders included a couple singing "The Rainbow Connection" which really did sound like Miss Piggy and Kermit even though they didn't intend to sound like that and twins that sang a song intended for a quartet. But I played my best ever and I'm pretty darn proud of that one! :D

[mpal2]

In an attempt to tie my side trip down another road back to a related point of this thread.... It's not always about the win that makes a competition important (since I could hardly remember my piano win without my sister's help). It's how you played the game and sometimes even the lesson you learned.

How many of these disasters taught lessons that led to greater victory?

I'll start with Michelle Kwan in 1997 Nationals and Worlds. She skated to protect "her" titles that year and she was afraid of being less than perfect. These defeats in turn taught her that no title is "hers". In fact, at one of the more recent Nationals (and I, of course have a defective memory and can't remember which one) she was quoted as saying Nationals is never easy. She is never regaining her title because it was never hers to begin with. The end impression of the interview was that each competition was a clean slate and you had to start over again with each one.

Great lesson!

[Joesitz]

I think what Dee4704 meant was that Alexei's performance was so bad that anyone could have beaten him (I wouldn't know, I haven't seen it), and that if she was Mike Weiss, she wouldn't parade it as a victory because obviously he hadn't beaten a clean Alexei, he may have almost been champion by default. Yagudin's performance pretty much took him out of the running.

Aside from Michael, the statement that A clean so and so can beat a clean what's his name If that statement is correct, why have a competition?

Ans so what if Mike paraded around as beating Yagudin? didn't Sandhu parade when he beat Evgeni? IMO, and it is only mine, I think Abt was the best skater in those years He got robbed by Yagudin.

Let Mike and Emmanuel enjoy their 15 minutes, and Brian , too. That's what sport is all about. Not everyone is perfect all the time.

Joe

[icenut84]

I agree Joe - I was just clarifying Dee's post a bit because I thought RealtorGal might have misinterpreted it (as a bash on Mike).

[SkateFan4Life]

Liz was in 4th place (behind Kira Ivanova who won the figures, Katarina Witt-5th in figures and 1st in short, and Debi Thomas-2nd in figures but 7th in the short after botching the double axel) going into the long program. She had actually finished second in the short behind Katarina. Liz skated right after Caryn Kadavy, who had a great performance in which she landed 4 triples. Liz skated to a medley that had 'The Night They Invented Champagne' from Gigi, 'Send In the Clowns', and 'When the Saints Go Marching In'. She opened with a high double axel. She then had a triple salchow planned, but you could see she was tilted and it was only a double. Her next jump was the triple lutz (she was the only skater in the final group attempting this). She looked fine going up, but ending up sitting down. I'll have to get out my tape to watch it again. She ended up landing only 1 triple - a triple toe. She was so disappointed after her performance that she did not stay in the kiss and cry to see her marks. :( Scott Hamilton said afterwards that the performance wasn't representative of what she had been doing in practice all week and she would be a threat the next year. Boy, was he right.

Herm (sk8ngnutt)

I remember that one. Elizabeth Manley was "red hot" in the practice sessions at the 1987 World Figure Skating Championships, held in Cincinnati, Ohio, and she looked like a cinch to win a medal. I doubt if she would have beaten Katarina Witt, who skated one of the best - if not the best - long program of her eligible career to "West Side Story". Liz's music "The Night They Invented Champagne" seemed to be a great choice, and one that would inspire her to skate a great long program. Unfortunately, she completely blew the program and finished fourth overall.

I was so happy for Liz when she skated superbly at the 1988 Winter OIympics and won the silver medal. She won the long program, but her overall scores in figures (4th) and short program (3rd) prevented her from winning. She was very close to Katarina Witt, however.

[Dee4707]

I leave for a couple of days and everyone is picking on me. Thanks to those who understood my intentions of what I was trying to say. I will try and be perfect the next time I post something.

IMO, and it is only mine, I think Abt was the best skater in those years He got robbed by Yagudin......Joe

Joe, don't you mean Abt got robbed by the judges??? If you remember Alexei was not proud of that win.

Dee

[Joesitz]

Dee, you are correct it was the judges and not Alexei, although didn't Alexei say that no one will know all that in 20 years. If so, he certainly didn't care for Abt - or maybe, he just had a talk with him. I hope so. Can't help missing Abt and still angry he left Artunian. When I heard that super repetitive music of Ravel, I knew he was doomed. I'm sure Alexei spoke to Sasha Abt about his loss..

Don't feel badly, Dee. I get picked on a lot too. It just shows we are something special.

Joe

[SkateFan4Life]

Emanuel Sandhu as certainly had his share of disastrous programs. One that stands out is Skate Canada 2001. He was 2nd after Alexei after the short and had a complete meltdown during his long. :o I was sure he was going to skate of the ice halfway through that program.....
K

I remember that one. Emanuel's short program was shown, and I thought,
"Wow! This guy is outstanding. What an artist, and what an athlete." And then Emanuel proceeded to completely blow his long program - one fall and mistake after another. It was a DISASTER of the first order. I was in shock watching his program unravel.

I sincerely hope Sandhu gets his act together and puts all of his talent together in a positive way. He is so talented, and he should be well up there in the World's top ten, IMHO.